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scroll frond border Posted by Susan D. Walter on May 26, 2026, 3:35 pm Another Williams Weber ID I cannot find in the Database: I have 2 sherds of "Scroll Frond Border" by Charles Meigh (Williams Weber 1986:240); I'm wondering if it is here and I'm not finding it? Thanks.

Re: scroll frond border Posted by Len on May 26, 2026, 10:17 pm, in reply to "scroll frond border" Sorry, Susan, I've made several searches and haven't found it either. An unmarked example might have come in under an assigned name but if so it's being very elusive. I don't think we have it.

Re: scroll frond border Posted by Susan D Walter on May 27, 2026, 1:03 pm, in reply to "Re: scroll frond border" thanks; i've had this rim pattern a few times here in southern california, and other archaeologists, at least here, probably have also had examples. when i got my copies in 1989, the williams weber books were invaluable, but there is no doubt that the images are small and fuzzy. and god knows i've tried, but details of the central patterns usually are not clear enough for me to connect the fragments of my yorba central designs to their rims. - before i had access to the tcc, my major references for romantic transferwares were the williams weber books; and that petra and marguerite - they'd have had a complete example of scroll frond border in their collection that they donated to the margaret strong museum in rochester new york. could you get permission from them to include patterns not already in the database, photographing them with better equipment, in your database? susan

Re: scroll frond border Posted by Len on May 27, 2026, 9:31 pm, in reply to "Re: scroll frond border" Evidently we have approached museums before about getting pictures of what they have and it has just been too expensive. As an archaeologist do you have any kind of inside track when it comes to dealing with institutions like that? Thanks.

Re: scroll frond border Posted by Susan D Walter on May 28, 2026, 12:25 pm, in reply to "Re: scroll frond border" Hi Len, I am sending your question to HISTARCH, an on line nation wide group of historic archaeologists who weigh in with support, guidance, opinions, and advice. (I'll forward any replies to you and also David Hoexter, if that is ok.) Also, yesterday I contacted the Strong National Museum of Play - the newer iteration of where Petra Williams said she was sending their items. The librarian told me yes he found records of numerous donations, but that since the change to the play element, the objects were probably no longer in their collections. He was going to check further. Susan

Re: scroll frond border Posted by Susan D. Walter on May 28, 2026, 12:44 pm, in reply to "Re: scroll frond border" Haven't gotten to the HISTARCH yet; this just showed up though from David Sleasman, librarian at the Strong Museum. Helpdesk - Library From:library@museumofplay.org To:sdwalter@cox.net Thu, May 28 at 6:07 AM Susan, According to our Collection Manager can tell, yes, many of the items for the Williams collection have been deaccessioned but the museum still holds about 800 objects of about original 1,714 objects. The deaccessions were sold via a couple auction houses over time including Schultz (NY), Jeffrey S. Evans (VA), Hindman Auctions (Chicago), and Cottone (NY). Attached is a report about what is still in the collection. If you any follow-up questions or would like to schedule time for research, please let me know. Cheers, David

Re: scroll frond border Posted by Len on May 28, 2026, 1:47 pm, in reply to "Re: scroll frond border" Wow, thank you for going to all this trouble, Susan! This is great information to have. Hope the people at HISTARCH can help. Thank you again, so much!

Re: scroll frond border Posted by Susan D Walter on May 28, 2026, 3:33 pm, in reply to "Re: scroll frond border" It is no trouble at all. I've heavily leaned on the TCC for identifications, and both appreciate your usefulness to archaeologists (as well as everyone else) and now, revisiting Yorba, my project from 1996, am updating my analysis with TCC info. As you've no doubt been aware, I've suggested more stuff particularly useful to the archaeological community (Stringinngs!!!!!) But whatever, Williams Weber has many items pictured not in the TCC Database and of course they SHOULD be...

Re: scroll frond border Posted by Susan D. Walter on May 28, 2026, 1:46 pm, in reply to "Re: scroll frond border" PS: the Simla in the TCC Database is NOT the Simla I have in my Yorba assemblage...

Re: scroll frond border Posted by Mark R. Carman on May 28, 2026, 2:27 pm, in reply to "Re: scroll frond border" Hi Susan, You posted something on my session that belongs to someone else. You should post it where it belongs.

Re: scroll frond border Posted by Mark R. Carman on May 28, 2026, 2:30 pm, in reply to "Re: scroll frond border" OOPS, Susan, you were right and I was wrong. Please disregard my messages.

Re: scroll frond border Posted by Susan D Walter on May 28, 2026, 3:36 pm, in reply to "Re: scroll frond border" Ok, thanks...

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