The L.C. Smith Collectors Association

The L.C. Smith Collectors Association
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Rear Trigger Safety Issues

Posted by Michael Tavary on March 26, 2025, 1:01 pm

FWE Ideal 1928 mfg

The rear trigger will fire on Safe.

With the safety selector on Safe and the rear trigger held against the safety link and looking thru the right side, with the right lock plate off, there is about a 1/32" interference with the left sear and left trigger.

Thus, in the safe position, the left sear is resting on the left trigger. The slack in the link allows the hammer not to fire, but when the slack is taken up it will fire.

I have only dry fired with snap caps.

The right side lock works normally and both triggers have play when hammers are cocked.
Off of safety both triggers feel and function as normal. Snapping the forward trigger does not set of the rear.

Any suggestions are appreciated.

Re: Rear Trigger Safety Issues

Posted by Trevor Rice on March 26, 2025, 1:50 pm, in reply to "Rear Trigger Safety Issues"

Is this gun new to you or have you had it for a while? Have you tightened any screws?

I ask because I have seen the timed screw under the top lever too tight and it will suck the trigger plate up to the sears and cause misfires even when off safe.

Miss timed screws will cause your gun to malfunction

Re: Rear Trigger Safety Issues

Posted by Michael Tavary on March 26, 2025, 4:05 pm, in reply to "Re: Rear Trigger Safety Issues"

Trevor, thank you for response!
New to me, but I shot it about 8 times soon after purchasing. I didn't notice anything then, but I didn't test the safety.
I didn't want to shoot it until I addressed the stock. It has been apart since then.
It had one hairline crack at the rear of the right-side plate, a crack in the webbing inside the webbing from the lower left inside the inletting.

I removed the stock o determine its conditon. I did refinish the stock after repairing the cracks and this is the first time I've had it back together.

I dread taking it back apart, but I could put a shim under bottom trigger tang at the rear screw.
I'm open for suggestions.

Re: Rear Trigger Safety Issues

Posted by Trevor Rice on March 26, 2025, 7:45 pm, in reply to "Re: Rear Trigger Safety Issues"

So, you are saying the other trigger does not fire on safe?

It sounds like something is out of whack for sure. Back the screw out under the top lever one whole turn and see what it does

Re: Rear Trigger Safety Issues

Posted by Michael Tavary on March 26, 2025, 11:02 pm, in reply to "Re: Rear Trigger Safety Issues"

The right bbl works as normal on all 3 safety selections.

Per your idea, I back off two turns on the rear trigger screw and the lift bbl, rear trigger worked as normal. That allowed the distance between the top and bottom to separate 0.025".
I will remove the trigger tang and place a 0.030 shim between the stock and bottom tang and try again.
thanks for your help.

Re: Rear Trigger Safety Issues

Posted by trevor rice on March 27, 2025, 7:27 am, in reply to "Re: Rear Trigger Safety Issues"

Check the back screw behind the safety too, these guns are very fickle if screws not timed properly. Any I take apart I take photos of how the screws are timed

Re: Rear Trigger Safety Issues

Posted by David Williamson on March 27, 2025, 2:34 pm, in reply to "Rear Trigger Safety Issues"

As Trevor has stated, the screw under the top lever if turned 1 turn, I say one turn because that screw has a tapered head like the top tang that it goes through. I have seen that screw sideways, half turn tight where the large taper is on the down side of the tang and 1 turn too much. This screw if the gun is turned up and the trigger guard removed, the end of that screw can be seen. The best thing to do when disassembling, is to take the trigger guard off and measure the distance from the trigger plate to the end of that screw. This way there is no mistake if the gun was shooting correct before.

Very seldom is having a two trigger gun with the back trigger not working correctly, it almost sounds like a safety problem.

I think taking the left lock off might show what is happening when you pull the rear trigger what is the trigger plate doing, it should have a little play but not enough for the rear trigger to trip the sear with the safety on..

I would do as Trevor stated and back the top lever screw out 1 turn and see what happens.

Re: Rear Trigger Safety Issues

Posted by David Williamson on March 28, 2025, 4:13 pm, in reply to "Re: Rear Trigger Safety Issues"

For some reason thinking about this problem, I forgot to ask, does this gun have a three position safety?

If it does it most likely is the problem, because in the rear position there is no safe, break the gun open and the safety does not move and the rear trigger will fire.

Re: Rear Trigger Safety Issues

Posted by Michael Tavary on March 28, 2025, 10:41 pm, in reply to "Re: Rear Trigger Safety Issues"

It has a 3 positiion safety. The left hammer fires in the save position if the rear trigger is slightly touched. The front trigger is safe.

In the forward safety position, both triggers work as normal. The lever pushes the safety back to the safe position.

With the safety on and the right side plate off and looking at the left plate, trigger touches the sear. There is about 0.025" interference.

I loosened the rear trigger tang screw, and the trigger moves away from the sear and the gun works as normal.

Thanks for helping.

Re: Rear Trigger Safety Issues

Posted by Michael Tavary on March 29, 2025, 8:05 pm, in reply to "Re: Rear Trigger Safety Issues"

Trevor and David,

I tried your suggestions.

Loosening the Trigger Tang Screw has 2 turns allows the rear trigger to clear the sear and the safety blocks both triggers. With the safety in the full forward and rear ward, the hammers release normally.
This was repeatedly proven after 15 operations using snap caps.
My plan is to remove the trigger plate and insert a 0.030" shim under the trigger plate at the Trigger Tang Screw.
Thank you for your help.

Re: Rear Trigger Safety Issues

Posted by trevor rice on March 29, 2025, 8:11 pm, in reply to "Re: Rear Trigger Safety Issues"

I don’t think you have to shim anything just keep one of the vertical screws timed. You could also take a minute amount off of the sear if needed

Re: Rear Trigger Safety Issues

Posted by Michael Tavary on March 30, 2025, 8:12 pm, in reply to "Re: Rear Trigger Safety Issues"

Trevor,

You will have to explain timing.

I have the screw slots all going in line with the axis of the gun. I have loosened the top/main tang screw, under the lever on half and a full turn, with no effect. It protruded above the surface of the receiver tang.
The top/main tang screw was retightened, and the trigger guard was removed. It measures 0.360" below the trigger plate.

Re: Rear Trigger Safety Issues

Posted by Michael Tavary on March 30, 2025, 11:29 pm, in reply to "Re: Rear Trigger Safety Issues"

looking at the left and right sears, the right sear is somewhat triangle shaped crossection.

The left sear is more rounded at the trigger engagement surface. A closer look, it appears to have been ground before. Also, the ear, where the trigger engages, of the sear is 0.022 thinner than the right sear.

Re: Rear Trigger Safety Issues

Posted by Trevor Rice on March 31, 2025, 1:00 pm, in reply to "Re: Rear Trigger Safety Issues"

Michael,

All of these guns were fit from the factory, that’s why parts are seldom interchangeable. The screws should be all flush technically, that’s what timing is. However there are variables since you didn’t buy the gun new from the factory some parts could have been poorly changed out.

Re: Rear Trigger Safety Issues

Posted by Michael Tavary on April 1, 2025, 8:28 am, in reply to "Re: Rear Trigger Safety Issues"

Trevor,

I really appreciate yours and David's input as I am a babe in the woods with LC mechanisms.

At this point do you think I should shim or grind the sear. I test fit with a 0.030 shim and rear tang screw, behind the safety, is about 2 threads below the face of the receiver face.

Thanks, Mike

Re: Rear Trigger Safety Issues

Posted by David Williamson on April 1, 2025, 3:19 pm, in reply to "Re: Rear Trigger Safety Issues"

Michael, if this gun has been apart, the lock plate and the trigger plate housing screw that goes behind the safety could be mixed up, especially if this is a Field Grade because the lock plate screw head would be engraved.
The lock plate connecting screw is longer than the trigger plate screw and this could be your problem. If the tang screw is now the lock plate connecting screw and it is flush on the right side, you are pulling the trigger plate closer to the sear/s.
If you take out those two screws and look closer you will see that the head of the one screw is thicker than the other, and that one is the lock plate connecting screw. The tang screw with the smaller head should be flush with the top tang behind the safety.

Also when I described "timed" it meant that the screw head slots should be in line with the length of the barrels. Trevor's grandfather might have used "timed" in another way.

Re: Rear Trigger Safety Issues

Posted by Trevor Rice on April 1, 2025, 3:57 pm, in reply to "Re: Rear Trigger Safety Issues"

David,

I believe you are correct. The rear trigger plate screw and lockplate screws look very similar I’d bet they were mixed up.

As far as timing goes David you are certainly correct on the orientation. I do believe it’s important to have all screws flush.

Re: Rear Trigger Safety Issues

Posted by Michael Tavary on April 1, 2025, 8:58 pm, in reply to "Re: Rear Trigger Safety Issues"

Thank you, gentlemen,h

Mine is an Ideal.
The screws were in the proper place as the side lock screw's face is flush and the end has a cross pattern. Its patina matches the side plate.

The rear tang screw does not fit flush in the side plate and has a blued finish on its head.

They are very close to the same length and thread.

With the 0.030 shim under the trigger plate at the rear screw, the rear screw end is 0.035 lower than the receiver tang face.

The right sear measures 0.105" thick and the left 0.081". So, to not use a shim and grind down the left sear, it would be about 0.061" thick. However, I would only grind a little at a time. Or I can add a thinner shim and not grind off so much from the shim.
Do any of these option sound viable? I'll try to attach a picture of the sears side by side.

Re: Rear Trigger Safety Issues

Posted by trevor rice on April 2, 2025, 8:52 am, in reply to "Re: Rear Trigger Safety Issues"

Is your gun Featherweight or Regular frame? The .081 is consistent with FW frame sears and the .105 is consistent with reg frame.

Re: Rear Trigger Safety Issues

Posted by Michael Tavary on April 2, 2025, 10:55 am, in reply to "Re: Rear Trigger Safety Issues"

Mine is an FWE.

Re: Rear Trigger Safety Issues

Posted by trevor rice on April 2, 2025, 5:43 pm, in reply to "Re: Rear Trigger Safety Issues"

Ok, personally I would file the sear down. A shim will not help you in this case.

Re: Rear Trigger Safety Issues

Posted by Michael Tavary on April 2, 2025, 11:07 pm, in reply to "Re: Rear Trigger Safety Issues"

Thank you, Trevor

I'll let you know how it turns out.

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