[ Message Archive | GraniteCityGossip ]

    machine... Archived Message

    Posted by Liberal on February 24, 2011, 2:52 am

    an attempt to engage you...

    obviously we have one thing in common - and maybe only one thing - and that is our common adoration for the concept of liberty.

    liberty, as an ideology, is opposed by power.

    power is always seeking to expand, and those with power always looking to further grow or secure their own power.

    liberty is the freedom from being under "dominion" (as john adams referred to it) of another person. it was the joy of freedom to pursue their own desires...their own happiness...an escape from the oppression of power.

    it is a concept our founding founders were obsessed with and it was the main underlying theme in most pamphlets and papers from the time...it was the thought that birthed our nation.

    i think me and you both fear a misuse or abuse of power (via government), and cherish our liberty.

    this is the common ground...but where we sever in ideology is where we aim our sights.

    you view any form of government expense not explicitly written in the constitution as fraud; comparible to a ponzi scheme or theft. you view these programs as a perversion of power and your individual liberty.

    but me...

    i view the military - our standing army - as a huge misuse of power and as a perversion of my individual liberty.

    ...and both of these ideas we have were harbored by our "founding fathers."

    i am sure you know the quotes of those founding fathers you respect...but here are some you may have never explored before...

    to quote a favorite book of mine..."the Ideological Origins of the American Revolution" by Bernard Bailyn;

    "...the absolute danger to liberty lay in the absolute supremacy of a "veteran army" - in making "the civil subordinate to the military," as Thomas Jefferson put it in 1774, "instead of subjecting the military to the civil powers." Their fear was not simply of armies but of standing armies, a phrase that had distinctive connotations, derived, like so much of thier political thought, from the 17th century..."

    in other words...we both see tyranny in our government - we both see unchecked power being misused - but you take issue with the tyranny that dispenses wealth for the greater good of humanity at the expense of those most able to contribute or share - whereas i see the tyranny of war and the brutal/expensive truth that is it's result.

    i wonder why i never see you take up this position - as it is perfectly in line with our founding fathers, and our military is the most expensive in the world and by far the largest cause of our government expenses.

    i feel that even if we, as a nation, do not fear an iron fist, or we do not fear our military turning on us like we are witnessing currently in Libya - that we are still powerless to our military.

    our military is extremely veteran - and more powerful than anything a militia could muster. we could not, as a people, defy our military if we wanted to and tried.

    and the portion of the budget it consumes is endlessly permanent...even endlessly expanding (though shrinking slightly under obama.)

    our standing army is entwined with our economy - it provides our country with many many jobs at MY expense (since you like to claim tax dollars i will too...) - i am forced to pay for a military i do not want. every soldier gets my tax dollars...and we could not break ourselves of these chains if we wanted to.

    the world is our empire, as we have military on every corner of this planet. as civillians and citizens - we are enslaved to our military.

    i think this causes resentment in me towards our military...which causes me to often lash out at those so proud of our military. i see them admiring the very thing i despise above all else - what i see as the bane of our culture and the thing that will lead us to our fall. we could never be a society that cherishes education and science because we idolize our soldiers instead.

    i personally do not know any fear associated with a lack of military, and i luckily know no fear in regards to the sanctity of liberty (except the patriot act - that kinda infringed on liberty a little in ways i did not like)...i do not fear our military turning on us...

    i only fear our military as it is turned on others and we are stuck footing the bill to clean it up. i only fear that our love of our military will be our downfall - it will be the rope around the neck of liberty as we move forward, and i above all else fear that as a nation we have become too dependent on our military...our power lies in it's hands - and that was the greatest fear of our founding fathers...

    the main cause of their fear towards a powerful centralized government was that it could, with the help of a strong military, rob it's people of liberty. centralized abusive powers could not exist without a vast and veteran army.

    and as a nation with a standing army - we feel compelled to use it, since we are paying for it.

    the war which is triggered to put that military to use requires more people to join the military, and more weapons and ammunition and equipments used for war to fuel the war; thus creating a repeating cycle - a military industrial complex.

    if you truly practice what you preach - then why have i never heard you speak out against the most dangerous MACHINE in the world; our military???

    if i hear you do this, and not just hear you complain about tax dollars being robbed from you to give to people who should just "try harder"...

    then i could actually take you seriously.

    as is i think you are priviliged, and likely indoctrined into a poltical ideology which you have never been able to break yourself from...like a jewish child growing up to become a jewish person, never questioning the faith you have been taught and know...never straying from the words instilled in you by mom and dad.

    perhaps it is a choice - or perhaps it is a character flaw.

    either way - i am curious to hear your thoughts on our military, and i am curious why it is not the focal point of your ideological assault on wasteful government spending.


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