the ordinals, i.e numbering, is in my view only a matter of convention, and whether it be useful.
Both the idea that he founded a separate miyake, and the idea that he continued an existing one, can be argued for and against.
--Previous Message--
: Christopher
:
: I don't think that Nobuhito Shinno can be
: included among the heads of the Arisugawa no
: Miyake and I have never seen any Japanese
: sources which do so.
:
: In other Miyake it sometimes occurred that a
: successor was appointed a number of years
: after the death of a prince who had no heirs
: but in the case of Arisugawa/Takamatsu the
: Takehito was still alive when Nobuhito was
: appointed. However it is quite clear that
: Emperor Taisho intended Nobuhito to carry on
: the Shinto rites associated with the
: Arisugawa family according to a letter he
: wrote to Takehito Shinno shortly before the
: latter's death. Thus if not legally then
: spiritually Nobuhito could be said to be the
: heir of the Arisugawa no Miyake and this was
: confirmed by his marriage to Tokugawa
: Kikuko, Takehito's granddaughter.
:
: You are quite right about the early
: generations of the Miyake. The Miyake was
: founded in 1625 by Yoshihito Shinnō
: (1603-1638), 7th son of Emperor
: Go-Yōzei as the House of Takamatsu no
: Miya (Yoshihito Shinnō's residence was
: called the the Takamatsu-dono). Yoshihito
: Shinnō died without male issue but in
: 1647 his nephew Nagahito Shinnō, 9th
: son of Emperor Go-Mizunoo was appointed
: successor. Nagahito Shinnō, who
: married his predecessor's daughter,
: succeeded to the throne in 1654 as Emperor
: Go-Sai. The title was revived when his 2nd
: son Yukihito Shinnō followed him in
: 1667 as 3rd Takamatsu no Miya. In 1672 the
: Retired Emperor Go-Mizunoo changed the name
: of the House to Arisugawa no Miya (the
: reason for this choice is unknown).
: Yukihito Shinnō's son Tadahito
: Shinnō died childless in 1716 when the
: title passed to Yorihito Shinnō, 16th
: son of Emperor Reigen whose line continued
: until 1913.
:
: Yours
:
: Hamish
: --Previous Message--
: Hello Hamish,
:
: Nice to see that you are posting here.
: Though one suspects that now you have done
: so, the number of questions may make you
: change your mind!
:
: I have been thinking about the
: Arisugawa/Takamatsu title. Should one
: consider Prince Nobuhito as the 11th Prince
: Takamatsu? I gather that it is considered
: correct to regard the 1st of the line as
: Prince Yoshihito, son of Emperor Yozei (II)
: and Prince Yukihito, son of Emperor Sai (II)
: as the 3rd title holder. Are these
: assumptions correct according to Japanese
: custom?
:
: Cheers,
: Christopher
:
: --Previous Message--
: Mieko was the daughter of Arisugawa no Miya
: Takehito and his wife Yasuko Maeda.
: Takehito was the younger half-brother of
: Arisugawa no Miya Taruhito Shinno (NB not
: Tomohito Ethere was no prince of that name
: in the House of Arisugawa). Both were sons
: of Arisugawa no Miya Takahito Shinno
: (1812-1886). Taruhito was the eldest (by
: Yuko Saeki, d 1841), Takehito was the 4th
: and youngest (by Noriko Mori, d 1902).
: Adoption by members of the Imperial Family
: was forbidden by the Imperrial House Law of
: 1889 so when Takehito died in 1913, having
: outlived his only son Tanehito O
: (1887-1908), the Arisugawa no Miyake
: officially became extinct. However in July
: 1913 Emperor Taisho gave his 3rd son
: Nobuhito the title Takamatsu no Miya,
: Takamatsu being the original name of the
: Arisugawa no Miyake. Nobuhito in due course
: married Miekos daughter Kikuko.
:
: NB The spellings MiyekoEand MayedaE
: following a transliteration system no longer
: is use. The current forms are Mieko and
: Maeda. Also, one of the previous postings
: mentions Princess Isako Miyeko Arisugawa
: Fumi-no-MiyaE Isako was actually Miekos
: elder sister (born 17 Oct 1885; died 30 Sept
: 1886). I have found no Arisugawa princess
: (or prince) with the title Fumi no Miya
: although Nobuko Naishinno (1891-1933) did
: have this title.
:
:
: --Previous Message--
: Princess Isako Miyeko Arisugawa Fumi-no-Miya
: was the daughter of prince Takehito and
: Yasuko Mayeda. Her daughter princess Kikuko
: married prince Takamatsu, brother of
: empereur Hiro-Hito.
:
: --Previous Message--
:
: Miyeko Arisugawa (1891-1933) married prince
: Yoshihisa Tokugawa.
:
: genealogy edited by Jeffrey Taliaferro
:
:
:
:
: (http://www.geocities.com/jtaliaferro.geo/miyake.html)
: gives Miyeko's parentage as imperial prince
: Takehito Arisugawa (1862-1913) and Yasuko
: Maeda (1864-1923)
:
: whereas
:
: genealogy edited by Henry Soszynski
:
:
:
:
: (http://www.uq.net.au/~zzhsoszy/states/japan/arisugawa.html)
: gives Miyeko's parentage as prince Tomohito
: Arisugawa (1854-1895) and Tadako Mizoguchi
: (1855-1923)
:
: It looks like Tomohito Arisugawa and
: Takehito Arisugawa were half-brothers. The
: latter survived his brothers, and became
: Head of the shinnoke house of Arisugawa, an
: imperial prince.
:
: These two genealogies contradict each other;
: the conflict exists because no one can have
: two pairs of biological parents. I am
: interested in getting to know who were
: Miyeko Arisugawa's biological parents.
:
: In Japan, siblings and nephews relatively
: often got adopted by brothers and uncles
: (within-family adoption). For example, to
: organize the line of succession.
: It may very well be that one of these two
: parentages in fact were an adopted parentage
: of Miyeko. The problem is that on basis of
: these two conflicting sources, it is not
: obvious nor known, who of them were the
: biological parents.
:
: Does anyone know who were biological parents
: of Miyeko Arisugawa?
: And, what is reliable source of that?
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
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