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Volvo V40 1.9TD D4192T 2003 - Bad hesitation at 2500rpm, code ECM1809 #

Posted by James Scott on February 13, 2012, 7:42 pm

Year of Manufacture *: 2003
Engine Size and Code *: 1.9TD D4192T
( Optional ) Scanner Used: VIDA & KTS
( Optional) Fault Codes: ECM1809

Hi all
Im after some advise on this one

2003 V40 1.9TD (engine is same as a Renault)when driving has a bad hesitation at 2500rpm the engine has that horrible fuel starvation sound and rattle but it can be driven through.

The car had a non start problem before Christmas and the IMV was replaced unfortunately i have no other info on this.

Fault codes read using VIDA.
ECM1809 Fuel rail pressure, too low, active fault (VIDA fault tracing says if it runs there's nothing wrong!). Also used KTS as VIDA is painfully slow on V40's shows same code and description.

Correct rail pressure at idle 300 Bar when reved to 2500rpm the rail pressure is all over the place. Above this it clears and settles down again.

I removed the fuel filter and found it black so replaced it and bleed the system also fitted a clear pipe no sign of air in the system but still the same.

I have a picoscope trace showing the pressure going nuts with IMV and MAF if i work out how to upload it i will.

EGR, boost control and MAF operating correctly and no air leaks. I thought there could be a link when turbo comes on boost or EGR activated.
Injector leak back all even and not excessive

Uhmm im out of ideas have i missed anything?
Any sujestions or ideas where else to look

Thanks James

Re: Volvo V40

Posted by Mark Carter <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT1428' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on February 14, 2012, 8:26 am, in reply to "Volvo V40"
Mark Carter

Whats the leak back like though the rev/load range?

Mark

Modern cars, Its all wizardry and witchcraft

Re: Volvo V40

Posted by James Eardley <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=ukat3143' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on February 14, 2012, 9:24 am, in reply to "Volvo V40"
James Eardley

Is it definitely diesel in the tank?
James

Re: Volvo V40

Posted by James Scott <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=ukat3047' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on February 14, 2012, 12:09 pm, in reply to "Re: Volvo V40"
James Scott

Thanks for the quick replies

Mark the leak off looks even across rev range

James the fuel looks and smells like diesel have a sample sat on the bench to see if it separates aswell

Thanks James

Re: Volvo V40

Connect in a suitable gauge to check the FRP sensor, That way we will know what is actually happening in the rail.
Either its telling lies or something is causing the pressure issues.

Mark

Modern cars, Its all wizardry and witchcraft

Re: Volvo V40

I dont have a high enough range gauge to hand. I will see if i can beg/ steal or borrow one and let you know.

Thanks James

Re: Volvo V40

Posted by Mark carter <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT1428' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on February 14, 2012, 2:49 pm, in reply to "Re: Volvo V40"
Mark Carter

Hi James,

As far as I know omly three companies make a gauge, the first is Bosch the second is Delphi and the third is SP (I may be wrong)

Mark

Modern cars, Its all wizardry and witchcraft

Re: Volvo V40

Posted by martin simonsohn <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=ukat3223' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on February 14, 2012, 3:09 pm, in reply to "Re: Volvo V40"
Martin Simonsohn

hi Hope this helps i have had 2 of these with identical fault descriptions
the garages on both occasions had changed h/p pump and injectors when i scoped the fuel pressure sensor it read ok until i tapped it gently with an extension bar when i did this the reading went bonkers.
both cars were cured with new frp sensor.
i would say def worth checking

Re: Volvo V40

Scope all 3 wires on the FRP sensor and give it a tap as stated to see if anything strange happens.

If the readings stay stable then rev/test drive the vehicle with the scope still attached and see what happens to fuel pressure readings when it acts up. Im guessing the signal will go low indicating low fuel pressure. if this is the case you really need to be checking the low pressure supply side of the fuel system before you go any further.

I have had electrical problems before with FRP sensors where the ground to the sensor is interupted making the ecu think the fuel pressure is too high and the ecu then takes fuel away. I suppose you would have a fuel pressure too high code though.

Does it start up ok? or extended cranking?
If you scope FRP sensor you want to be seeing 0.5v with ignition on
and about 1v 300bar(ish)in under 1 second when cranking.

Put a lighter to a fresh sample of fuel too.

Also if you have got an emmisions machine you can hover your pipe over a fresh sample and read the HC content.
If it has petrol contamination the readings should go sky high.

HTH
James

PS thanks for the emissions machine tip Mark

Re: Volvo V40

Thanks for all the ideas guys it is very much appreciated

Mark- every one down here said you want to what?? and have never heard of HP gauges so it looks like that's a dead end for the moment.

Martin- Thats a interesting one im wondering if a vibration in the engine could be setting this off??

James- I will scope all 3 wires in the morning see what happens. Good tip on using the emissions tester to pick up on HC from the petrol.

Im going to try that in the morning.

In answer to your questions it takes less than a second to start the engine. The 0.5 KOEO signal is present and hits 2V as the engine starts then drops back to 1.3V at idle.

As for low pressure feed I don't think this car has a in low pressure pump, parts dept don't know. im going to access the top of the tank and check for myself.

Again thanks for all you help. I will let you know i get on.
James

Re: Volvo V40

Posted by Steve Kefford <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT1094' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on February 14, 2012, 10:12 pm, in reply to "Re: Volvo V40"
Stephen Kefford

Also tap the IMV while watching pressure.

Steve

Re: Volvo V40

Hi James

Don't suck the fuel up the emission pipe LOL

Fuel has to get from the tank to the HP pump even if it has not got a low pressure feed pump. If there is any problems in the supply there will be problems in the high pressure.

hth
James

Re: Volvo V40

Posted by Kevin Apps <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT2589' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on February 14, 2012, 11:14 pm, in reply to "Re: Volvo V40"
Kevin Apps

James.

Delphi kit is part no: YDT278for the pressure test kit and YDT 410 the false actuator kit.

If you intend to do common rail, you will need this type of kit (and more !! )

Kev

Re: Volvo V40

Hi James,

>>> Mark- every one down here said you want to what?? and have never heard of HP gauges so it looks like that's a dead end for the moment <<<

With all due respect, this is one reason that simple straight forward diagnostics take for ever and parts are fitted unnecessarily.

Question; if you had a MAP sensor reading that did not make sense, hopefully you would prove it via an independent gauge quite early on in your diagnostic routine?

Why should a rail pressure sensor be any different?

Kev has been good enough to give you the Delphi part no and this is the Bosch no 0986 613 200

I don't have the SP no to hand. Hth.

Regards Mark

Modern cars, Its all wizardry and witchcraft

Re: Volvo V40

Posted by James Scott <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=ukat3047' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on February 15, 2012, 12:56 pm, in reply to "Re: Volvo V40"
James Scott

Kevin and Mark thanks for the part numbers im passing it on to the boss

Mark I agree with you unfortunately my boss doesnt see it - yet! Im on his back about updating training and tooling.

I haven't got around to the car this morning will let you all know!

again many thanks
James

Re: Volvo V40

Posted by Lee Mackintsoh <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT1348' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on February 16, 2012, 8:02 am, in reply to "Re: Volvo V40"
Lee Mackintosh

Sykes Pickavant do make one kit,
Part Number = 31465000 - high pressure test kit

Part Number = 31461000 - Low pressure test kit

Looking on Internet the high pressrue test kit can be bought for around £450+vat.

Re: Volvo V40 Fixed!!

Posted by James Scott <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=ukat3047' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on February 16, 2012, 6:41 pm, in reply to "Re: Volvo V40"
James Scott

Hi all

Thanks for all your help... past experiences, testing tips and tooling numbers.

With the trusty pico on all 3 wires I confirmed this was not a wiring issue with power or ground. I tapped the sensor and got quite a reaction!

After replacing the sensor I scoped the sensor again this time with no error in the signal and on road test had no hesitation.

Again thanks without your help i would have no hair left!

James