Angela,
As far as I know, Clive is the OLDEST surviving Human to have lived at Mt. Carmel under Ben Roden. In such, he also unlike any other person on the planet has lived under the teachings of 4 person considered "PROPHETS."
He was under the ROD Message of Brother Houteff prior to coming here from Australia with his Mother. His Mother was under the Shepherds Rod message as well, and Clive recounts many stories of having experiences of evangelizing the Rod message in Australia, being run out churches, those he served with in evangelizing, being physically threatened by SDA preachers. After Brother Houteff Died, Clive and his mother accepted the "BRANCH" Message and came to Waco in 1962-64. He served under Brother Roden, under Lois Roden, and until April 19th, 1993, under David Koresh.
NO OTHER LIVING PERSON on this planet has his perspective of things. He is at odds with his brethren on his positions as to David's Teachings of things relating to the Seven Seals, but has the background to make his logic sound convincing.
Charles Pace who is at Mt. Carmel now, has prophesied Clive will die before 4-19-2013 and will never see another Memorial unless he changes his viewpoint on the person of David Koresh. That is a view point he is in harmony with his brethren on, that David was "GOD IN THE FLESH," the "SON OF GOD". I hold this position as well. But I also hold that there have been many divine Visitations to this world. Such position was presented at the 1895 General Conference, by an SDA preacher who was scorned by the SDA for his position, but who was for the same invited to Australia by Ellen G. White to conduct a revival campaign as she was intrigued by his position.
I have Charles Pace prophesying the Death of Clive before this coming Memorial archived on video. I am in prayer about whether or not to release it just prior to the Memorial. He made such a prophecy more than once from the pulpit, and to me on April 18th, 2012 by my car parked in front of his home with my wife and dad seated inside in hearing range of his proclamation. He stated in no uncertain terms "This is going to be Clive's Last Memorial, CLIVE IS GOING TO DIE before Next April 19th." He paused for a moment and I SHUDDERED inside. I did not shudder at Charles Pace's Proclamation, I Shuddered because to the CONTENT and TONE spoken to me in that moment by the Angel of the LORD with regards to Mr. Pace, I shuddered for Mr. Pace's Sake. I kept the matter to myself. Mr. Pace continued and added "Well, he is going to die, if he doesn't REPENT." He was speaking of a repentance of Clives position on David Koresh, and I have that too on Video.
I do not know if God is going to use such to address the position of Mr. Pace, but I do know that CLIVE will live to both see and attend the Memorial this coming April 19th, 2013. And I have publicly Confronted Mr. Pace on the matter.
I do KNOW also, that God is getting ready to address and Challenge the Doctrine of Mr. Pace very soon. And there is another matter related, that I cannot speak of at this time, which may be the means by which God will make this address.
At any rate, this leaves then the varied splintered groups and personalities proclaiming David Koresh to be the Lamb of Revelation chapter 6. I too hold this position. But I note of these groups, the separate greatly there.
To answer your question, a question must first be asked. DO YOU BELIEVE DAVID KORESH was indeed who he said he was? Do You believe he is the Lamb of God seen in Revelation chapter 6?
If your answer is "NO", then the answer to your question is simply "YES", with no more consideration to be given...that is, if you are CORRECT in NOT believing that David Koresh was God's ANNOINTED, THE SON OF GOD for his Generation, THE LAMB of Revelation 6.
If your answer is "NO", and you are correct, then the teachings of Benjamin Roden, of Lois Roden, of David Koresh himself for the message of the SEVEN SEALS he presented, all proclaim that any new light, any new MESSAGE, MUST HARMONIZE TO ALL THE MESSAGES THAT CAME BEFORE ITSELF.
NOW, in considering that, one must consider that historically, any time NEW TRUTH was sent into the world, OLD TRUTH WAS CHALLENGED. And there was period of transition which required THOSE WITH HEARTS FOR THE TRUTH, to embrace NEW TRUTH, on faith alone, because they knew by the Testimony of the HOLY SPIRIT that truth was being presented to them. THIS HAS ALWAYS BEEN THE TEST of the faithful. The same truth under Brother Houteff was presented and all had questions, but some with questions sat with cynicism and disbelief in their hearts, pre-determined to stand against truth. These people in truth, were already standing against truth, they are the mimicks, who go about quoting “Brother so-and-so, and Sister She-Said-it!” They are not truly students of truth, they are status seekers. The come in by flatteries, learn how to talk proper, to walk proper, in order to get whatever it is they seek for worldly gain out of “RELIGION”, but they are not truly seekers of the Truth. Still they are exposed to the truth as are others when A MESSENGER is sent. The others who sit, have been taught the same doctrines as the tares, they have been taught to speak the same speak, to walk with similar gait, and in their hearts, when NEW TRUTH CAME, and the OLDER MESSAGE WAS CHALLENGED, these same people had the same questions as the TARES. The difference is, they had hearts for investigation, they had hearts to STUDY, in the continual active sense, where others had hearts for status, relied not on a heart of active ongoing STUDY, but rather on a position of having BEEN STUDIED!
Such are the ways of State sponsored Seminaries and certificates hanging upon the wall.
”WITH MUCH STUDY IS WEARINESS OF THE FLESH.” (Eccl chp 12).
In his Audio Sermon “THE BIRD” David Koresh speaks on those who rely on their own merits, their own conclusions, their own laurels…”Oh I read this book, or that…” Another says “Well I read that, but I read this one too!” And another says “Well I READ THIS WHOLE SET!” David quoting the verse I cited above from Ecclesiastes Chapter 12, cites where TRUTH COMES FROM, and that there is only ONE FOUNTAIN OF LIVING WATERS!
You see there is an improper attitude that treats “THE TRUTH” like owning a first run edition of a book, THE OLDEST AND BOLDEST VERSION! Or Another group of those who reject truth who tout such reasons for their rejection due their possession of the “LATEST AND GREATEST REVISED EDITION!”…the attitude is the same.
Years ago, Clive Doyle gave me a copy of Ellen G. White’s “THE GREAT CONTROVERSY!” It was a very old edition. I later found a newer edition, a REVISED
Edition at a used book store and was floored that it seemed far shorter in content. I bought the newer used copy. I found an astonishing discovery. I shared it with Clive.
A couple years later, I was living in North Carolina again, and visited an SDA church frequently over the course of about 2 years. My thinking was to gain a wider insight to the viewpoints of the MODERN SDA on Ellen Whites teachings. Right away, I was very honest with them, telling them I had been a Baptist Preacher, that after I left the Baptist Church, I was moved strongly by the events at Waco in 1993 and had for years prior to meeting them, been friends with Surviving Students of David Koresh.
I did not realize it immediately, and was surprised by the tolerance displayed towards me after having proclaimed as I had. I was given phone numbers and invited to have Bible study by several members, at least 2 deacons. There was always an excuse not to have a study, and very quickly my calls went unanswered. When I bought a lot of food and planned a study at my home and invited several, many made semi-promises to come, but never showed. At several after church Fellowships, over food at the church fellowship hall, I was engaged about my belief set and assertively shared those things I had learned by exposure to the teachings of Victor Houteff, Benjamin and Lois Roden and David Koresh, via their works, and . I was very surprised by such tolerance that was displayed, even interest shown in the same, moreso by the younger generations than the older.
Still it became obvious, people had been told to allow my attendance weekly but not to affiliate with me. If it was not directly told them of my person, then it was certainly indoctrinated into them of “persons’ like me.
I realized the Governing bodies of the SDA as whole had evidently realized there were a large number of persons who had never been under any SDA influence who were investigating on their own, due exposure near or far, to the “WACO” event of 1993. In such, it was also evident that in prudence, at least from their position to their own agenda, they realized a plan of tolerance for such persons for sake of “proselyting” such persons with slow indoctrination using a feigned tolerance to the belief sets of such people.
(CONT NEXT POST)
Message Thread | This response ↓
« Back to index