Diesel Diagnostics

Post a Response

Fiat Scudo 2.0 JTD RHZ 2001 - Looses power, MIL comes on, multiple codes (live data) #

Posted by Bryan Swales on July 22, 2010, 11:44 pm

Year of Manufacture *: 2001
Engine Size and Code *: 2000 jtd rhz
( Optional ) Scanner Used: modis

Help!!! just got this as new work van and the problems have starting.Driving along van loses power, eml on, Dip the clutch and it cuts out. While coasting usual start back up on 2nd go then be ok again for couple of miles or 20.
Codes
p0403 exhaust gas recirculation (egr) valve circuit
p0243 waste gate control valve circuit
p1135 deative 3rd piston high pressure pump
p1521 clutch switch circuit
p1112 fuel rail pressure
Any help would be great, bamming me up ,
Havnt even any spare cars the now, grrr

Re: fiat scudo

Posted by Carl Ford <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT1822' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on July 23, 2010, 5:43 am, in reply to "fiat scudo"
Carl Ford

Looks to me like u have multiple faults or maybe a 5v ref fault have you checked lives and earths into the sensors if that's all ok I would say you need to get the scope out and check fuel pressure and egr then possibly look at the waste gate control valve using mity vac and scope as these are possibly the ones causing the running fault
hth

Re: fiat scudo

Posted by aidan birley <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT2879' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on July 23, 2010, 8:10 am, in reply to "Re: fiat scudo"
Aidan Birley

Hi

Agree about possible issue with 5v, would also have good look for chafed wire.
Cheers Aidan

Re: fiat scudo

Posted by bryan swales <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT1950' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on July 23, 2010, 11:54 am, in reply to "Re: fiat scudo"
Bryan Swales

Thanks guys,Just started doing it real bad last night,hence the late post and not having sensor feeds checked. I am away this week end so be the the start of week before i get another look, will keep you all posted to my results.

Re: Fiat Scudo 2.0 JTD RHZ 2001 - Looses power, MIL comes on, multiple codes (live data) #

Posted by steve fisher <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT1920' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on July 23, 2010, 9:16 pm, in reply to "Fiat Scudo 2.0 JTD RHZ 2001 - Looses power, MIL comes on, multiple codes (live data) #"
Steve Fisher

Bryan the 3rd piston deactivator , egr solonoid and turbo solonoid are supplied with 12v from fuse 7 . If fuse 7 is dead then check the double relay

Hth's

Steve

Re: Fiat Scudo 2.0 JTD RHZ 2001 - Looses power, MIL comes on, multiple codes (live data) #

Posted by Matt Booth <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=ukat3028' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on July 23, 2010, 10:58 pm, in reply to "Re: Fiat Scudo 2.0 JTD RHZ 2001 - Looses power, MIL comes on, multiple codes (live data) #"
Matthew Booth

The 3rd piston is only designed to reduce fuel volume, not cut flow as far as i'm aware. From what I can see the only plausible fault code for what you're experiencing is the fuel pressure code.

Have you cleared the codes and if so what returns? Have you checked the basics such as fuel filter?

Matt

Re: Fiat Scudo 2.0 JTD RHZ 2001 - Looses power, MIL comes on, multiple codes (live data) #

Posted by bryan swales <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT1950' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on August 11, 2010, 1:42 pm, in reply to "Re: Fiat Scudo 2.0 JTD RHZ 2001 - Looses power, MIL comes on, multiple codes (live data) #"

Bit more investigation here, Van would have fault on same bits of road, After big hill climb, coming down other side to roundabout then it would cut out when dipping clutch. If you can let it coast a good 20 secs it will pretty much start right up. Check out this
http://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/msg/archive/1194726763.html
Seemed similar to start with as van was perfect when just got it with full tank of diesel but lower down it was worse, but.. filled it yesterday to try and would still do it!
New fuel filter has already been fitted.
Do you think pump is getting lazy and on way out?

Re: Fiat Scudo 2.0 JTD RHZ 2001 - Looses power, MIL comes on, multiple codes (live data) #

Posted by Piotr Sokolowski <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT1848' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on August 11, 2010, 8:41 pm, in reply to "Re: Fiat Scudo 2.0 JTD RHZ 2001 - Looses power, MIL comes on, multiple codes (live data) #"

have you done injestor ;eak test? Does it have pump in the tank? More info please

Link: www.pandpauto.eu

Re: Fiat Scudo 2.0 JTD RHZ 2001 - Looses power, MIL comes on, multiple codes (live data) #

Posted by Bryan Smith <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT5330' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on August 12, 2010, 1:03 am, in reply to "Re: Fiat Scudo 2.0 JTD RHZ 2001 - Looses power, MIL comes on, multiple codes (live data) #"

Hi Bryan.
I don't know if this has been discussed since, but the "fix" from the link (ie. drilling holes) is not a good idea. The "swirl" pot does indeed get filled by a venturi effect from the fuel return and drilling holes will only allow the fuel to be at the same level as what remains in the tank. If the swirl pot is not staying full it can only be down to 3 things. An obstruction in the return (unlikely), a leak in the swirl pot or most likely, foreign matter in the tank affecting the venturi (I have found this on a Vectra before).
With regard as to whether your pump is on the way out or not, do you have access to a scope and a low amps clamp? Just reading current on a DMM will not give you the full picture. This explains it better than I can as I am not an electrician.
http://www.picoauto.com/tutorials/fuel-injection.html
HTH's
Bryan with a Y

PS. Just thought that if the pump efficiency is bad, that would perhaps be a fourth reason why the swirl pot wouldn't stay full.

Re: Fiat Scudo 2.0 JTD RHZ 2001

Posted by bryan swales <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT1950' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on August 14, 2010, 3:58 pm, in reply to "Re: Fiat Scudo 2.0 JTD RHZ 2001 - Looses power, MIL comes on, multiple codes (live data) #"
Bryan Swales

FIXED _ Van seems perfect now. Went down the fuel pressure route first as that is what it was feeling like, LP pump out and checked, checked venturi at bottom, cleaned out crap from bottom . Rebuilt back up. No better

.
Wiring next checked connectors and wiring looked ok then remembered Steve's words of wisdom and low and behold blow fuse number 7. Its always the last thing you check eh.
Thanks to every for their input, I would like to aspire to be half as good as some of the people on the forum and top marks to steve for bang on the money fault.

Cheers
Bryan

Re: Fiat Scudo 2.0 JTD RHZ 2001

Posted by Dave Hill <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT2783' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on August 14, 2010, 10:17 pm, in reply to "Re: Fiat Scudo 2.0 JTD RHZ 2001"

Hi Brian

""I don't know if this has been discussed since, but the "fix" from the link (ie. drilling holes) is not a good idea.""

Hmmm?

I actually own the vehicle in question now & it has done approx 20K since the unorthodox repair was performed. Although I don't usually like to carry out "bodges" like this, there was no other obvious way forward, so a little "outside the box" thinking was required.

I don't see any reason why this "workaround" should be considered to be a "bad idea".

As always... I am open to opinions.

Cheers

Dave

Re: Fiat Scudo 2.0 JTD RHZ 2001

Posted by Bryan Smith <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT5330' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on August 16, 2010, 7:57 pm, in reply to "Re: Fiat Scudo 2.0 JTD RHZ 2001"
Bryan Smith

Hi Dave,
I do have the utmost respect for your technical ability and have read with interest many of your posts and consider you far more knowledgeable than myself. I have indeed carried out many "modifications" that could sometimes be considered an improvement on the original. If you have found that it worked and are happy with it then I don't see much of a problem. Especially if it is your own vehicle as there will be no comebacks. What I was concerned about was that if Bryan did drill some holes and perhaps they were too large or too many of them it would probably cause problems when the tank is low on fuel. As I understand this type of system, it uses the return flow from the pump to keep the swirl pot full and needs to fill from the bottom to be able to draw fuel in from the rest of the tank. If it has holes it can only maintain the contents at the same level as the rest of the tank. Because of the way this works, any foreign matter can be drawn in by the venturi and then as soon as the pump stops working, the matter can just float off into the bottom of the tank. On inspection or even removal of the swirl pot the cause may not be apparent. On the next journey it can be drawn back into the venturi within minutes causing serious head scratching.
Best Wishes,
Bryan

Re: Fiat Scudo 2.0 JTD RHZ 2001

Posted by Dave Hill <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT2783' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on August 16, 2010, 9:06 pm, in reply to "Re: Fiat Scudo 2.0 JTD RHZ 2001"

Hi Bryan

I had to laugh today, when one of the lads walked back into the workshop, after driving off only a few moments earlier,(in the vehicle in discussion).

Guess what..............

It broke down with what looks like a fuel delivery issue. Talk about the "kiss of death". I mean what are the chances?

I blame you Bryan (with a "Y")

Anywhooo

From memory, when I performed the "mod" I introduced the return pipe inside the swirl pot. This would have the effect of maintaining an abundance of fuel inside the vessel.

A new pump/swirl pot assembly had been fitted already, before this extreme measure was taken. The return flow rate appeared to be very healthy, it was just that the jet of fuel would not penetrate the small one way valve.

I will post the outcome of this current chapter as & when it's fixed.

Thanks for the kind comments Bryan. I don't know about being more knowledgeable than you or anyone. You have to realise that I don't post about my screw ups & blond moments

Cheers for now

Dave

Re: Fiat Scudo 2.0 JTD RHZ 2001

Posted by Mark Carter <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT1428' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on August 16, 2010, 9:26 pm, in reply to "Re: Fiat Scudo 2.0 JTD RHZ 2001"
Mark Carter

Think yourselves lucky that you still have Hair to have a Blonde moment with !!!

Regards Mark

Modern cars, Its all wizardry and witchcraft

Re: Fiat Scudo 2.0 JTD RHZ 2001

Posted by Dave Hill <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT2783' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on August 17, 2010, 11:30 am, in reply to "Re: Fiat Scudo 2.0 JTD RHZ 2001"

Hi mark

I am a member of the chrome dome club too!

We dropped the tank on this Scudo this morning & found......

The tank was empty!

I fairness we also found the float level lever was detached & sitting in the bottom of the tank. The gauge was showing 3/4.

Thankfully a cheap fix this time

Re: Fiat Scudo 2.0 JTD RHZ 2001

Posted by aidan birley <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT2879' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on August 17, 2010, 1:59 pm, in reply to "Re: Fiat Scudo 2.0 JTD RHZ 2001"
Aidan Birley

Hi Dave

Don't have to much of a problem with your Mod, but would A) bend the float arm so always has a 1/4 tank when reading empty, B) advise owner of possible issues.

With regards to your comment
>> From memory, when I performed the "mod" I introduced the return pipe inside the swirl pot. This would have the effect of maintaining an abundance of fuel inside the vessel. <<

Surely this can not increase the level of fuel without a venturi, as Fuel is being removed and returned to the pot in same quantity ( less engine use ).

Cheers Aidan

Re: Fiat Scudo 2.0 JTD RHZ 2001

Posted by Dave Hill <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT2783' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on August 17, 2010, 8:26 pm, in reply to "Re: Fiat Scudo 2.0 JTD RHZ 2001"

Hi Aidan

I like how you are thinking about the problem. You are right about the volume of fuel flowing through the return, being less than the pump is pumping out of the tank.

In reality though, the quantity of fuel that is removed through the injection process, is very small in comparison to the overall volume of fuel circulating. The holes in the wall of the swirl pot allow enough fuel in, to counteract the deficiency.

Your point, does draw attention to the need for the "venturi" though. In a similar way that many "saddle tank" arrangements maintain an equal quantity in each chamber.

Good point well made!

Cheers Aidan

Dave

« Back to index

[ Diesel Diagnostics ]