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Fiat Punto 1.3 JTD 2006 - Holding back, fault code P0106 #

Posted by Glenn Snell on May 25, 2010, 4:38 pm

Year of Manufacture *: 2006
Engine Size and Code *: 13 jtd 199a3000
( Optional ) Scanner Used: reflex/ solus-pro / picoscope
( Optional) Fault Codes: p0106

Holding back & not revving thru, scanners indicate map/maf problem. My problem is verifying the fault, I cant get a scope trace on pico to test it, I can get 0v-5v hall effect trace which contracts time wise when revved. Can anyone can tell me how to verify the fault code,
TIA

Re: fiat punto 13 jtd -- holding back

Posted by Mark Carter <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT1428' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 25, 2010, 4:54 pm, in reply to "fiat punto 13 jtd -- holding back"
Mark Carter

I think you will find that you are looking at the digital output from the sensor and not the analogue output that you were expecting.HTH.

Regards Mark.

Modern cars, Its all wizardry and witchcraft

Re: fiat punto 13 jtd -- holding back

Posted by Pete Mutlow <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT1569' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 25, 2010, 5:24 pm, in reply to "Re: fiat punto 13 jtd -- holding back"
Peter Mutlow

Evening Glenn,

Is it not possible to disconnect the MAF and see how it runs or maybe I am being a bit too simplistic?

Regards

Pete M

Re: fiat punto 13 jtd -- holding back

Posted by Mark Mcgrath <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT2806' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 25, 2010, 5:40 pm, in reply to "fiat punto 13 jtd -- holding back"
Mark McGrath

we have had these with with manifold full of crap blocking end of sensor giving these type of faults
its easy to remove sensor then check if hole is blocked a mirror helps

Re: fiat punto 13 jtd -- holding back

Posted by Carl Ford <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT1822' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 25, 2010, 6:29 pm, in reply to "Re: fiat punto 13 jtd -- holding back"
Carl Ford

Does this have swirl valves as I have found these to cause this sort of fault on other jtd engines also have a look at egr valve as already stated these do get coked up manifolds aswell

hth

Re: fiat punto 13 jtd -- holding back

Posted by Carl Ford <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT1822' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 25, 2010, 8:48 pm, in reply to "Re: fiat punto 13 jtd -- holding back"
Carl Ford

Just had another thought if you are lookin at map could you not attach a pressure guage and see exactly what boost pressure is and then shut off the wastegate with mityvac if vaccum type or with scan tool if electric type and see if it drives better
like I said just a thought but I maybe wrong

hth

Re: fiat punto 13 jtd -- holding back

Posted by glenn snell <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=ukat3053' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 26, 2010, 10:20 am, in reply to "Re: fiat punto 13 jtd -- holding back"
Glenn Snell

Tried that pete, same or slightly slower!

Re: fiat punto 13 jtd -- holding back

Posted by glenn snell <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=ukat3053' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 26, 2010, 12:00 pm, in reply to "Re: fiat punto 13 jtd -- holding back"
Glenn Snell

will try and let you know thanks, Mark.

Re: fiat punto 13 jtd -- holding back

Posted by glenn snell <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=ukat3053' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 26, 2010, 12:32 pm, in reply to "Re: fiat punto 13 jtd -- holding back"
Glenn Snell

gonna have a good look in to inlet man and egr, etc.
thanks Carl.

Re: fiat punto 13 jtd -- holding back

Posted by glenn snell <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=ukat3053' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 26, 2010, 1:25 pm, in reply to "Re: fiat punto 13 jtd -- holding back"

I understand what your saying mate, but I'm looking for this;

and I'm getting this;

and I'm trying to check the MAF is working, before condemning it, Pico suggested 'bar graphing' but I dont know how to yet.
TIA

Re: fiat punto 13 jtd -- holding back

Posted by carl ford <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT1822' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 26, 2010, 6:44 pm, in reply to "Re: fiat punto 13 jtd -- holding back"
Carl Ford

i have had a tranit van 06 plate in today with the same digital waveform as yours and as i revved the engine the frequency of the switching changed meaning they got closer together, now the only problem i have is that if you are revving yours as you capture the image and the frequency isnt changing is it due to fauly maf or restricted airflow i am no expert but maybe if it was restricted airflow the frequency would alter slightly maybe someone could give us both pointers on this style of maf system as i could be way off the mark.

Re: fiat punto 13 jtd -- holding back

Posted by Mark Carter <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT1428' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 26, 2010, 9:18 pm, in reply to "Re: fiat punto 13 jtd -- holding back"
Mark Carter

Hi, as I said earlier, I think you are expecting a analogue output (your first waveform), but the vehicle you are working on employees a digital sensor (your second waveform).

If it is a Bosch HFM6 (AMM), The air-mass-information is coded in the frequency and the air-temperature is coded in the duty cycle.

The more air fed in the higher the frequency.
The higher the air temp the higher the duty cycle. HTH

If it is non Bosch then I can not be sure but I would expect it to operate in a similar way.

Again, if you are looking at a MAP output then the output will probably follow the same path. It may or may not include a IAT.

Regards Mark.

Modern cars, Its all wizardry and witchcraft

Re: fiat punto 13 jtd -- holding back

Posted by Dave Hill <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT2783' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on June 5, 2010, 5:54 pm, in reply to "Re: fiat punto 13 jtd -- holding back"

Posted in wrong place sorry!

Re: fiat punto 13 jtd -- holding back

Posted by Dave Hill <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT2783' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on June 5, 2010, 6:43 pm, in reply to "Re: fiat punto 13 jtd -- holding back"

Hi Glenn

You said ""Pico suggested 'bar graphing' but I dont know how to yet.""

Is that in the "web help" section of Pico?

I don't know which Pico product you are using, but the 4000 series devices are introducing the capability to "grap" frequency signals. Although initially it only allowed a max of 2kHz, but I think it has been increased to 20kHz in the recent software update. You can find the frequency option in the "coupling" drop-down box. Where you used to see AC or DC, you know have the Frequency option too!

I haven't had a chance to play yet, but it looks like another great feature has been added to the package.

Cheers

Dave

Re: Fiat Punto 1.3 JTD 2006 - Holding back, fault code P0106 #

Posted by Peter Mashiter <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=ukat3935' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on June 15, 2017, 3:34 pm, in reply to "Fiat Punto 1.3 JTD 2006 - Holding back, fault code P0106 #"

Got a Panda here with the same symptom!
Puts a P0401 EGR insufficient flow fault in the system!
All data looks good!
Tried a Mass air flow with no change in symptom!
Measured current waveform at the primary fuel pump fuse seems good pattern & amperage at 5 amp!
This one does seem to struggle starting in a morning & cranks just a bit longer on first cold crank! Primary pump sounds a little noisy!
Have my suspicions that the primary pump is inefficient or failing!
Does anyone have a primary fuel pump pressure data?
Have a actual reading of delivery rate in % on the scan tool & seems to max out at 25% But not sure what that reading is for!
Have secondary pressures actual & expected & look good & even.
EGR looks to be working O.K! This animal uses the mass air flow to determine EGR duty cycle opening.

The primary pump is on my mind

Re: Fiat Punto 1.3 JTD 2006 - Holding back, fault code P0106 #

Posted by aidan birley <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT2879' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on June 15, 2017, 4:08 pm, in reply to "Re: Fiat Punto 1.3 JTD 2006 - Holding back, fault code P0106 #"
Aidan Birley

Hi Peter

May be better to start a new thread with your symptoms , testing & fault codes. (with a link to this one if you think it helpful)

regards EGR flow, I would check the defuser pipe i the inlet manifold is clear. simple way to check is to activate the EGR and monitor MAF value.

Aidan

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