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Open discussion on the future of AI and society

Posted by Figs <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/onedeuce/info/user=Figs' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on October 29, 2025, 8:32:40

I was talking to my wife about our future and our kids future, and speculating on what it may look like. My initial thought is that we are essentially at the early stages of the S curve on AI development. If that is true, my expectation is that AI will quickly become more adept than humans in most aspects of human existence. We will have specialized robots doing damn near everything that humans are capable of doing now and doing it better than us. They will be smarter, and will be able to work 24x7 without breaks.

Which leads me down a couple of different paths.
1) What jobs WILL be available in the future that I should lead my children to?
2) Seems like smart money would be to invest in essentially every AI stock available today.
3) How do we prevent Terminator from becoming a reality?
4) Do we even need to worry about #3, or should we be more concerned about a "Mouse Utopia" type of end game? (If we aren't already in the midst of it)
5) With all of the above considerations, it seems like Elon may be on to something with Space Exploration. And it's less about the exploration than the need for mankind to be striving towards something. Without that goal, and with the rise of AI, there are going to be a whole lot of people that don't NEED to work, and don't have a DESIRE to work.

“the intensity of a conviction that a hypothesis is true has no bearing over whether it is true or not.” - Peter Medawar

I supported lower tax rates so rich could get richer to expand the economy-

Posted by groupguy <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/onedeuce/info/user=groupguy' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on October 31, 2025, 8:56:16, in reply to "Open discussion on the future of AI and society"

but when the expanded wealth and desires are met by robots and AI tools, how then is that wealth spread? But on the way as wealth concentrates, at what point do rich people start amassing robot armies? And what is to keep those robot armies in line? And who controls that? So maybe robot hacking will be big business. Think of cell phone accessory stores- except for robots.

And then we have robot competitions, robot beauty contests, robot celebrities, all sucking up energy.

I am hopeful we enter the age of abundance although how do you keep people from just having tons of kids given low cost stuff?

I suspect reducing immigrants is a good idea.

Sidejack…you’ve been AI’ed tomorrow. How are you occupying yourself?

Posted by haighter <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/onedeuce/info/user=haighter' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on October 30, 2025, 20:06:53, in reply to "Open discussion on the future of AI and society"
Boo Haighter

I’d like to say I’d go work in a record store, but if no one has any money, I don’t see how any niche retail survives.

Bleak indeed.

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Sidney Sweeny's wardrobe consultant. *

Posted by osklister <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/onedeuce/info/user=osklister' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on October 31, 2025, 9:05:22, in reply to "Sidejack…you’ve been AI’ed tomorrow. How are you occupying yourself?"

Happy to be assistant wardrobe consultant to about a dozen others (ALL OF WHOM ARE OVER THE AGE OF 21 !!! ).

Some things are best left to the imagination.

Posted by GAIllini <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/onedeuce/info/user=GAIllini' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on October 31, 2025, 9:36:43, in reply to "Sidney Sweeny's wardrobe consultant. *"

I'm glad her current consultant is throwing that concept out the window.

I've always said that if I were to win the lotto, I would spend some time building houses for HFH.

Posted by Figs <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/onedeuce/info/user=Figs' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on October 31, 2025, 8:02:20, in reply to "Sidejack…you’ve been AI’ed tomorrow. How are you occupying yourself?"

I've done it a couple of times just for a day at a time. But I'd love to spend some real time giving something back to people in need. While my body will still let me.

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I’d like to say I’d go work in a record store, but if no one has any money, I don’t see how any niche retail survives.

Bleak indeed.

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“the intensity of a conviction that a hypothesis is true has no bearing over whether it is true or not.” - Peter Medawar

HFH is a virtue signal marketing device. If you want to help the poor go

Posted by fratstud <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/onedeuce/info/user=fratstud' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on October 31, 2025, 9:41:27, in reply to "I've always said that if I were to win the lotto, I would spend some time building houses for HFH."
Go Zags!

cook or serve meals at a shelter.

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I've done it a couple of times just for a day at a time. But I'd love to spend some real time giving something back to people in need. While my body will still let me.

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I’d like to say I’d go work in a record store, but if no one has any money, I don’t see how any niche retail survives.

Bleak indeed.

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"Iowa women were better than Illini men" - Potomac

I've done that also. But I like building things*

Posted by Figs <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/onedeuce/info/user=Figs' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on October 31, 2025, 9:43:01, in reply to "HFH is a virtue signal marketing device. If you want to help the poor go"

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cook or serve meals at a shelter.

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I've done it a couple of times just for a day at a time. But I'd love to spend some real time giving something back to people in need. While my body will still let me.

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I’d like to say I’d go work in a record store, but if no one has any money, I don’t see how any niche retail survives.

Bleak indeed.

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“the intensity of a conviction that a hypothesis is true has no bearing over whether it is true or not.” - Peter Medawar

They are usually shitty built and depress the value of other houses in the area. *

Posted by harb99 <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/onedeuce/info/user=harb99' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on October 31, 2025, 9:46:06, in reply to "I've done that also. But I like building things*"
a CM calendar at work is A-OK

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cook or serve meals at a shelter.

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I've done it a couple of times just for a day at a time. But I'd love to spend some real time giving something back to people in need. While my body will still let me.

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I’d like to say I’d go work in a record store, but if no one has any money, I don’t see how any niche retail survives.

Bleak indeed.

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"yeah but you live down where the hoot owls eff the chickens" - illinihiltopper

My experience, is that they are usually built in places that are already pretty depressed.

Posted by Figs <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/onedeuce/info/user=Figs' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on October 31, 2025, 9:53:37, in reply to "They are usually shitty built and depress the value of other houses in the area. *"

And that the end result is better than the situation the family had before.

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cook or serve meals at a shelter.

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I've done it a couple of times just for a day at a time. But I'd love to spend some real time giving something back to people in need. While my body will still let me.

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I’d like to say I’d go work in a record store, but if no one has any money, I don’t see how any niche retail survives.

Bleak indeed.

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“the intensity of a conviction that a hypothesis is true has no bearing over whether it is true or not.” - Peter Medawar

That didn’t happen for my past coworker. Several built in her neighborhood, one next door….value of

Posted by harb99 <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/onedeuce/info/user=harb99' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on October 31, 2025, 10:09:14, in reply to "My experience, is that they are usually built in places that are already pretty depressed."
a CM calendar at work is A-OK

Her house fell because of it. At least that was her story, but who knows. It was actually on a pretty decent street in an area that was near some already depressed areas, but I would say not a part of those areas.

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And that the end result is better than the situation the family had before.

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cook or serve meals at a shelter.

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I've done it a couple of times just for a day at a time. But I'd love to spend some real time giving something back to people in need. While my body will still let me.

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I’d like to say I’d go work in a record store, but if no one has any money, I don’t see how any niche retail survives.

Bleak indeed.

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"yeah but you live down where the hoot owls eff the chickens" - illinihiltopper

That is generally unusual, because HFH is looking for inexpensive land.

Posted by Figs <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/onedeuce/info/user=Figs' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on October 31, 2025, 10:11:11, in reply to "That didn’t happen for my past coworker. Several built in her neighborhood, one next door….value of "

They aren't looking to buy expensive land to build a cheap house on. Perhaps the land was donated to them?

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And that the end result is better than the situation the family had before.

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cook or serve meals at a shelter.

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I've done it a couple of times just for a day at a time. But I'd love to spend some real time giving something back to people in need. While my body will still let me.

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I’d like to say I’d go work in a record store, but if no one has any money, I don’t see how any niche retail survives.

Bleak indeed.

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“the intensity of a conviction that a hypothesis is true has no bearing over whether it is true or not.” - Peter Medawar

Possibly. Knowing some of those involved in the planning, something under the table was likely going

Posted by harb99 <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/onedeuce/info/user=harb99' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on October 31, 2025, 10:14:47, in reply to "That is generally unusual, because HFH is looking for inexpensive land."
a CM calendar at work is A-OK

On.

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They aren't looking to buy expensive land to build a cheap house on. Perhaps the land was donated to them?

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And that the end result is better than the situation the family had before.

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cook or serve meals at a shelter.

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I've done it a couple of times just for a day at a time. But I'd love to spend some real time giving something back to people in need. While my body will still let me.

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I’d like to say I’d go work in a record store, but if no one has any money, I don’t see how any niche retail survives.

Bleak indeed.

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"yeah but you live down where the hoot owls eff the chickens" - illinihiltopper

When I worked at BellSouth we were able to take a day from

Posted by GAIllini <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/onedeuce/info/user=GAIllini' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on October 31, 2025, 8:24:08, in reply to "I've always said that if I were to win the lotto, I would spend some time building houses for HFH."

work each year and work on a HFH house without using paid time off. I did this several years and it was nice to be able to contribute even if it was little bit. I'm sure engaging more would be even more satisfying.

What will technology make almost free and what not?

Posted by groupguy <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/onedeuce/info/user=groupguy' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on October 30, 2025, 17:46:37, in reply to "Open discussion on the future of AI and society"

Transportation, content, communications, commodity food and beverages, commodity medicines, commodity clothing- especially as government removes anti-trust barriers. This will take 10 more years, and then the margins will be so thin they will be tough businesses.

Branded/unique items will do better. Housing and energy seem a long way from free. Human touch will never be free.

Nurses and doctors to oversee the robots and take responsibility… police, investigators, forensic accountants, lawyers to oversee disputes. I think we’ll have a glut of consultants, journalists, politicians, bureaucrats for many years.

I think there will be little choice but to move towards guaranteed income (hopefully just enough to not starve on) and higher taxes on inheritance. Hopefully not on income, especially as that becomes more sporadic. And remove incentives for people to give money to organizations that just bitch and sue.

Massage/medical for low achievers, lawyers/doctors for high achievers. I think there will also be lots of tour guides in the future.

The Villainess and I talk about this all the time as well.

Posted by villain <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/onedeuce/info/user=villain' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on October 30, 2025, 15:09:58, in reply to "Open discussion on the future of AI and society"
Stupidhead

My initial thought is that time is ticking and that I need to secure enough wealth for not only the Villainess and I to ride out on, but also for our boys for their lifetime as well.

It seems more and more likely every day that we are steamrolling towards a tiny upper class (1-5% of the population) and a massive permanent underclass (95%+). Once you fall into the the underclass, you are there for good.

If things don't end up quite that dystopian, it will still be massively different than it was for us growing up. There will most certainly be less ways to attain wealth because AI is going to eat into many opportunities. There is no question that our children's future will have less attorneys, architects, accountants, etc....so we will actively push our boys towards one of two paths.

It's either become a doctor or a dentist, or learn a trade and we'll help facilitate the eventual starting of their own company.

No. 1 son is smart...probably a 90-95% type of kid and if he has the interest to go into the medical field, we'll support that. If not, I'll push him to do HVAC and I'll help him start his own company after a few years apprenticing under someone else. No. 2 son is exceptionally intelligent...like 99.99 percentile smart. He'll be a doctor without question. The key will be to just guide him to the right specialty to ensure it's not something like Radiology that will absolutely be downsized by AI.

This next paragraph is going to make me sound like a dick, but sometimes the truth hurts. I'm lucky because my kids are pretty smart and hard workers. I have no clue what a 50th percentile type of kid or below is going to do in 10-20 years. We as a society are going to lose hundreds of millions of jobs to either AI or robots and formerly "qualified" workers will all be pushed a few rungs down the ladder. People that were formerly considered smart will now be slotted into "average" intelligence jobs. The average and below intelligence workers will be pushed out of the workforce for the most part. What happens to them?

probably just another real jerk in life

I agree with the sentiment

Posted by ghost_of_clt <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/onedeuce/info/user=ghost_of_clt' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on October 31, 2025, 7:35:27, in reply to "The Villainess and I talk about this all the time as well."

I think it's mostly a 0.001% vs the rest. If you aren't in the three comma club now, you'll eventually fall behind. The top of the top can push levers to cause inflation and keep eroding the dollar such that what seemed a healthy, multi-generational savings/trust can't keep up. Thus I'm also strongly on board with groupy's higher inheritance tax - try to keep the playing field a little level so future generations get a chance to make their own successes and don't have to be born into exceptional wealth to get a good education and better prospects.

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wine was invented by the Romans... for orgies. and orgies are not too much fun if no-one wants to do it with you.

Don’t underestimate the value of elite engineering

Posted by Potomac <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/onedeuce/info/user=Potomac' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on October 30, 2025, 16:53:21, in reply to "The Villainess and I talk about this all the time as well."

Even if AI helps greatly, systems are so complicated across many fields, and we need hotshots on the job. Like the power grid, with power generation and distribution. Complicated.

Like the stuff my very smart son does: no chance for the 95% to do.

I think a lot of people are in for a shock when they realize their slacker behavior puts them in a hole.

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I am unhappy about the impact on the electrical grid & demand

Posted by Potomac <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/onedeuce/info/user=Potomac' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on October 30, 2025, 12:25:16, in reply to "Open discussion on the future of AI and society"

We finally may improve the electrical grid, and we may finally add capacity, including nuclear. But instead of making us more robust or lessen our dependence on fossil fuels or plan for the future, it's all going to AI.

It's crazy *

Posted by GAIllini <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/onedeuce/info/user=GAIllini' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on October 31, 2025, 9:38:56, in reply to "I am unhappy about the impact on the electrical grid & demand"

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If my kid has to fight a war over water scarcity for me to watch Stephen Hawking drop into...

Posted by haighter <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/onedeuce/info/user=haighter' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on October 30, 2025, 12:28:25, in reply to "I am unhappy about the impact on the electrical grid & demand"
Boo Haighter

...a half pipe that's just the price we have to pay.

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Hell, if I have to fight that war to protect the vids of Harry Sisson getting shit on it's worth it*

Posted by fratstud <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/onedeuce/info/user=fratstud' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on October 30, 2025, 12:35:40, in reply to "If my kid has to fight a war over water scarcity for me to watch Stephen Hawking drop into..."
Go Zags!

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...a half pipe that's just the price we have to pay.

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"Iowa women were better than Illini men" - Potomac

Fascist!*

Posted by Figs <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/onedeuce/info/user=Figs' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on October 30, 2025, 12:57:42, in reply to "Hell, if I have to fight that war to protect the vids of Harry Sisson getting shit on it's worth it*"

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...a half pipe that's just the price we have to pay.

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“the intensity of a conviction that a hypothesis is true has no bearing over whether it is true or not.” - Peter Medawar

“Things with your hands”…

Posted by haighter <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/onedeuce/info/user=haighter' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on October 30, 2025, 8:18:06, in reply to "Open discussion on the future of AI and society"
Boo Haighter

I work with people who work with their hands all the time and the amount of things I see happen that just aren’t going to be replaced with AI are infinite. If they are…we’re so far away from that it’s not even funny.

Huge factories and warehouses can be automated, sure…but the majority of activities take place outside of those places.

My little craft distillery may very well go “poof” and disappear someday…but if it dies it’s not going to be from AI replacement…directly. While I’m there I’m a sponge for things beyond core distilling activities. We’re not big enough to have a maintenance team, so I maintain everything. Servicing boilers, hunting down electrical issues. Plumbing issues. Rebuilding fluid pumps. Steam valves etc. Basic to intermediate mechanical, hands on competence with things gives me a level of comfort to be more self sufficient.

I’m heavily steering my kids to trades or the fire department.

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I considered that. But the things that Optimus can do already

Posted by Figs <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/onedeuce/info/user=Figs' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on October 30, 2025, 9:33:06, in reply to "“Things with your hands”…"

in the infancy of AI... leads me to believe that "things with your hands" is not as far from obsolete as we'd like to believe.

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“the intensity of a conviction that a hypothesis is true has no bearing over whether it is true or not.” - Peter Medawar

First, I am admittedly very ignorant about AI but give me a little rope here...

Posted by haighter <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/onedeuce/info/user=haighter' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on October 30, 2025, 11:01:04, in reply to "I considered that. But the things that Optimus can do already"
Boo Haighter

1. I think automation of large productions already is a thing and will likely only accelerate. Maybe too with very precise things. Very new things.

That said, I come back to that a lot of economic activity still takes place outside of those places...with equipment that is decades old and entirely analog or even obsolete. A lot of economic activity takes place in very low tech spaces.s It's the "last mile" concept but maybe more on a "small scale" framework.

Let me give a few examples of things I've done at work recently and tell me where AI would plug in or help out:

1. Walking through our tasting room with my boss he mentioned that "gee, it would be nice if we had a light centered over the bar". Ok, I can do that. Crawl up in the crawlspace above the bar, find the junction box for the other lights and run conduit and romex to the space, cut a hole in the ceiling, install a junction box and a light.

2. Performing a liquid transfer from one tank to another we notice that there's liquid on the floor near the transfer pump. Shut the tanks, walk the liquid outta the lines, disconnect the pump and get out the rebuild kid to replace a blown diaphragm. Test it, reattach, get back to the tank transfer.

3. Distilling. It's the same every day. Grind botanicals, load the still, transfer liquid around the building, fire the boiler, monitor steam, monitor distillate output, etc etc. It involves a lot of connecting and disconnecting. Moving pipes around from this place to that place. Opening and closing valves, etc.

4. Replacing steam fittings on our boiler. We had our boiler pump crankshaft rebuilt and before reinstallation, needed to replace old connections. Pipe wrench / Hammer / clamps / etc.

All of these things are analog too. There's not a digital readout in the place save for our alcohol density meter and 2 flow meters. There's no data port. We parts horde for the boiler because it's no longer in production.

I can see training robotics to do some of this...and maybe I'm woefully outta the loop...but I just don't see something coming in here and doing anything but the very most basic of tasks...and for what benefit?

My other big gripe is that I think huge proponents of AI dramatically undervalue and don't appreciate how much people actually enjoy and want to work. Oh, I'll be freed up to pursue my real passions? My real passion is production ops here. I've had desk jobs and I've had this job and there's nothing that compares (for me and many others) to the satisfaction of completing a complex physical task.

So again, maybe I'm woefully unprepared for what's coming but I can't for the life of me see how some humanoid thing would come in here and compete with what we do on any significant level.

This is exactly the kind of conversation I was driving at. Thank you.

Posted by Figs <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/onedeuce/info/user=Figs' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on October 30, 2025, 12:03:50, in reply to "First, I am admittedly very ignorant about AI but give me a little rope here..."

I agree that we are still a ways away from being able to tell Bob the Robot to install a centered lite over the bar. HOWEVER, my expectation is that with the expected rate of change with AI, when we get to the point of AI improving itself, and being able to solve problems we're not even thinking about... Many of those current limitations will get quickly solved.

That said, I think you are onto something with many humans WANTING to work. So maybe we are looking more at the type of work that is being done. At least for a while, work that takes creativity is not likely to be AI driven.

But will the ability for AI to mass produce damn near everything drive costs to a point where boutique vendors can't compete?

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“the intensity of a conviction that a hypothesis is true has no bearing over whether it is true or not.” - Peter Medawar

I think to your last point, we start to get into what FratStud hit upon...

Posted by haighter <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/onedeuce/info/user=haighter' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on October 30, 2025, 12:23:02, in reply to "This is exactly the kind of conversation I was driving at. Thank you."
Boo Haighter

...we are a boutique vendor and part of the process of production is built into the brand equity.

No one cares if Tanqueray or Beefeater are made and packaged in some massively industrial facility by a cog worker.

For a small producer like ourselves a huge part of our equity is a "craft" premiumization where the who and where of production are actually important. Our marketing and sales group sends us production distillers out to accounts because meeting us makes the sale easier. "Made by San Franciscans for San Franciscans" actually kinda works on our scale.

You'd probably be able to move production and increase margins (although our margin is currently 54%) to an industrial distillery somewhere in the midwest but I'm near certain it'd all but kill our brand. The product is excellent but people are also purchasing a narrative. To my surprise, premiumization in the spirits category is the only sector to see growth over the past few years.

To the other discussion of people wanting to work...its where AI and it's adherents really rub me the wrong way. I think AI is overall detrimental to the value and meaning of labor...and the stock and self-worth that people put into it.

Like they're creating a tool because they hate working and unleashing it on everyone else.

One of those "we know we can...but did we ever consider if we should?" type philosophical questions.

"We can but did we consider if we should"

Posted by Figs <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/onedeuce/info/user=Figs' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on October 30, 2025, 12:56:22, in reply to "I think to your last point, we start to get into what FratStud hit upon..."

I've thought about that a good deal recently too. And came to the conclusion that even though the answer is most likely that we shouldn't... It feels like an inevitability. Which is what sent me down the path of "what does the future look like for our children".

I think there is a sweet spot of technology and AI that frees much of mankind from day to day/manual labor, allowing those with the ability the freedom to pursue their passion. For some, that passion may be sitting on the couch, drinking soda, playing video games. For others, the pursuit of expanding mankind into space.

I am largely just fearful of how society reacts to all of that, and what do I need to do today to put my family into a position where they will have resources when they are needed?

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“the intensity of a conviction that a hypothesis is true has no bearing over whether it is true or not.” - Peter Medawar

Have you read Dr. Kaczynski's seminal 1995 treatise on these issues? It's seriously

Posted by fratstud <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/onedeuce/info/user=fratstud' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on October 30, 2025, 13:07:18, in reply to " "We can but did we consider if we should""
Go Zags!

a very thought provoking treatise, even aside from the observations about leftism that are my favorites to quote. He has several paragraphs on the power process and surrogate activities that you would find interesting. My guess is that you are somewhere around the point of realizing this point:

" 50. The conservatives are fools: They whine about the decay of traditional values, yet they enthusiastically support technological progress and economic growth. Apparently it never occurs to them that you can’t make rapid, drastic changes in the technology and the economy of a society without causing rapid changes in all other aspects of the society as well, and that such rapid changes inevitably break down traditional values.

51. The breakdown of traditional values to some extent implies the breakdown of the bonds that hold together traditional small-scale social groups. The disintegration of small-scale social groups is also promoted by the fact that modern conditions often require or tempt individuals to move to new locations, separating themselves from their communities. Beyond that, a technological society HAS TO weaken family ties and local communities if it is to function efficiently. In modern society an individual’s loyalty must be first to the system and only secondarily to a small-scale community, because if the internal loyalties of small-scale communities were stronger than loyalty to the system, such communities would pursue their own advantage at the expense of the system."

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"Iowa women were better than Illini men" - Potomac

Fuk him and the horse he rode in on. Meechigan traitor. *

Posted by osklister <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/onedeuce/info/user=osklister' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on October 30, 2025, 16:14:43, in reply to "Have you read Dr. Kaczynski's seminal 1995 treatise on these issues? It's seriously"

Living in that hell hole called Ann Arbor is probably what made him crazy.

I have not*

Posted by Figs <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/onedeuce/info/user=Figs' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on October 30, 2025, 16:02:05, in reply to "Have you read Dr. Kaczynski's seminal 1995 treatise on these issues? It's seriously"

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“the intensity of a conviction that a hypothesis is true has no bearing over whether it is true or not.” - Peter Medawar

Right...but if our economy and our personal safety and solitude are derived...

Posted by haighter <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/onedeuce/info/user=haighter' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on October 30, 2025, 13:06:18, in reply to " "We can but did we consider if we should""
Boo Haighter

...from your ability to provide things for yourself and your family (housing, comforts, food, etc)...

How does the guy who wants to sit on his ass and play videogames get worth? I guess that happens now but are we talking about some type of guaranteed basic income?

I just don't understand how that works. Everything I've seen proposed is nowhere near enough to support yourself or a family...yet we're simultaneously hollowing out the ability for you to provide via your labor?

It's dystopian.

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That would be my best. guess Some sort of guaranteed minimum income.

Posted by Figs <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/onedeuce/info/user=Figs' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on October 30, 2025, 16:01:27, in reply to "Right...but if our economy and our personal safety and solitude are derived..."

As machines take over the manual labor jobs, more and more people will lack the skills to compete, and will rely on government handouts. Society will become more socialistic out of necessity. Government funded basic healthcare, government funded basic dietary staples, government funded energy. In reality, none of it will be government funded it will all be funded by a group of ultra-wealthy that will fund/defund those programs based on how many people they feel like they need to run whatever manpower requirements they can't fulfill with machines. As you said, very dystopian. I hope I'm wrong, but I'm investing as though I'm not. Hopefully to provide a leg up for my children.

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“the intensity of a conviction that a hypothesis is true has no bearing over whether it is true or not.” - Peter Medawar

And Vonnegut went deep into this in Player Piano, which I think is his

Posted by fratstud <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/onedeuce/info/user=fratstud' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on October 30, 2025, 13:15:17, in reply to "Right...but if our economy and our personal safety and solitude are derived..."
Go Zags!

best novel. He envisioned a society where engineers became the most important people and could run massive factories with one person. The displaced were put into government run camps and assigned makework government jobs for sustenance.

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"Iowa women were better than Illini men" - Potomac

So again...dystopian and "why are we doing this?" Just "because"...

Posted by haighter <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/onedeuce/info/user=haighter' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on October 30, 2025, 13:20:47, in reply to "And Vonnegut went deep into this in Player Piano, which I think is his"
Boo Haighter

...or so that some landed gentry mf'er can squeeze more millions out of a formerly proud populace?

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The backdrop of Player Piano is it was done out of necessity because

Posted by fratstud <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/onedeuce/info/user=fratstud' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on October 30, 2025, 13:30:44, in reply to "So again...dystopian and "why are we doing this?" Just "because"..."
Go Zags!

all of the men went to World War III and unlike World War II they needed more capacity in the factories than women could afford so they mechanized everything.

The ultimate problem is that the most compelling rationale to advance tech as much as possible is the same rationale behind nuclear weapons. It's a race where if you fall behind it poses an existential threat to your country if you have valuable resources or aspire to be a world leader.

WWII was a major team effort with millions of contributors and I don't want to denigrate anyone's contributions, but the if we had a game ball to pass out to the MVP it's the scientists and engineers who converted America's war machine from a pacifist last line of defense force into the most dominant fighting force ever built inside of a handful of years. You simply cannot fall behind on tech and that is the number 1 reason I have been opposed to unfettered free trade since I first heard about it in the '80's. The Canadians signing an EV deal with the Chinese have relegated any hope of building a Canadian automotive industry into the dustbin and the ripple effect through nascent industries that could form to service such an endeavor will be immense.

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...or so that some landed gentry mf'er can squeeze more millions out of a formerly proud populace?

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"Iowa women were better than Illini men" - Potomac

Para 174 outlines options, UBI seems the least horrible in the short run:

Posted by fratstud <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/onedeuce/info/user=fratstud' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on October 30, 2025, 13:11:47, in reply to "Right...but if our economy and our personal safety and solitude are derived..."
Go Zags!

"174. On the other hand it is possible that human control over the machines may be retained. In that case the average man may have control over certain private machines of his own, such as his car or his personal computer, but control over large systems of machines will be in the hands of a tiny elite—just as it is today, but with two differences. Due to improved techniques the elite will have greater control over the masses; and because human work will no longer be necessary the masses will be superfluous, a useless burden on the system. If the elite is ruthless they may simply decide to exterminate the mass of humanity. If they are humane they may use propaganda or other psychological or biological techniques to reduce the birth rate until the mass of humanity becomes extinct, leaving the world to the elite. Or, if the elite consists of soft- hearted liberals, they may decide to play the role of good shepherds to the rest of the human race. They will see to it that everyone’s physical needs are satisfied, that all children are raised under psychologically hygienic conditions, that everyone has a wholesome hobby to keep him busy, and that anyone who may become dissatisfied undergoes “treatment” to cure his “problem.” Of course, life will be so purposeless that people will have to be biologically or psychologically engineered either to remove their need for the power process or to make them “sublimate” their drive for power into some harmless hobby. These engineered human beings may be happy in such a society, but they most certainly will not be free. They will have been reduced to the status of domestic animals."

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"Iowa women were better than Illini men" - Potomac

You are a small scale producer that has some sort of pricing power due

Posted by fratstud <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/onedeuce/info/user=fratstud' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on October 30, 2025, 11:55:39, in reply to "First, I am admittedly very ignorant about AI but give me a little rope here..."
Go Zags!

to branding and goodwill in your trademarks. Your business is likely owned by a rich guy or group that is fine with whatever return on equity it generates because there's probably a vanity aspect to it as well as possibly some sort of real estate play. Your experience is highly atypical in the packaged goods industry, where scale and ruthless adherence to margin preservation or enhancement is the name of the game.

You are correct that there are all sorts of jobs where humanoid robotics are going to be years or decades away from prime time and back of the house maintenance jobs that work on obscure mechanical instruments will be near the very bottom of the stack for the programmer army to run through, but the Diageos and Beam-Suntorys of the world have a multitude of jobs in their massively scaled up facilities that are going to get crushed by this stuff in the very short term.

No government policy or federal reserve action eviscerated rural Illinois, John Deere did it by curtailing the labor inputs necessary to produce an acre of corn or soybeans. Ain't nobody walking the beans anymore because the optical reader now tells the sprayer when to let the glyphosate go and one man with the proper implement can do the work of 20 people. IMHO, the massive advances in optical readers and computing power are going to accelerate this curve to damned near everything and businesses without pricing power and a benevolent capitalist up top are going to get torched. You have carved out a helluva niche and will be safe, but the labor market is gonna have one helluva an upheaval.

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"Iowa women were better than Illini men" - Potomac

Also…just cause I like posting pics of the joint…

Posted by haighter <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/onedeuce/info/user=haighter' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on October 30, 2025, 11:27:31, in reply to "First, I am admittedly very ignorant about AI but give me a little rope here..."
Boo Haighter

These are the things and locations I’m talking about…

My take

Posted by GAIllini <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/onedeuce/info/user=GAIllini' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on October 30, 2025, 7:51:32, in reply to "Open discussion on the future of AI and society"

1. Any job in a trade that requires knowledge, skill and most importantly manual dexterity. Electrician, Carpentry, Construction, Electrician, HVAC installation and repair, Auto Mechanic, etc.

2. I think the expected benefit of AI is inflating a number of stocks that will go back to a real value when we learn AI won't or can't do what was expected.

3. I don't think that will be an issue.

4. I don't see that we aren't already going strongly in that direction with or without AI. The further we get away from hunter/gatherer the less we are in touch with nature and ourselves.

5. Similar to #4. We're already there. If you don't have a purpose you are just going to drift. It's up to the individual.

AI does some things very well. Some things, not so much. If it is applied properly it can be a benefit. My biggest concern with AI is who is providing the "learning" and what are they teaching it. This concerns me a lot more that AI itself.

On 3, I would hope that they build safeguards in.

Posted by Figs <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/onedeuce/info/user=Figs' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on October 30, 2025, 9:36:44, in reply to "My take"

But if at some point, AI determines that humans have become a greater danger to earth than their potential to improve it.... How that is protected against seems very unclear to me.

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“the intensity of a conviction that a hypothesis is true has no bearing over whether it is true or not.” - Peter Medawar

Having adequately established the two characterists of modern leftism

Posted by fratstud <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/onedeuce/info/user=fratstud' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on October 29, 2025, 8:49:22, in reply to "Open discussion on the future of AI and society"
Go Zags!

that make men like Ti-Cuck become like that (oversocialization and feelings of inferiority), I now am trickle truthing out the paragraphs as Dr. K. envisioned the future. On your question, para 175, which as luck would have it I just quoted, comes to mind:

"175. But suppose now that the computer scientists do not succeed in developing artificial intelligence, so that human work remains necessary. Even so, machines will take care of more and more of the simpler tasks so that there will be an increasing surplus of human workers at the lower levels of ability. (We see this happening already. There are many people who find it difficult or impossible to get work, because for intellectual or psychological reasons they cannot acquire the level of training necessary to make themselves useful in the present system.) On those who are employed, ever-increasing demands will be placed: They will need more and more training, more and more ability, and will have to be ever more reliable, conforming and docile, because they will be more and more like cells of a giant organism. Their tasks will be increasingly specialized, so that their work will be, in a sense, out of touch with the real world, being concentrated on one tiny slice of reality. The system will have to use any means that it can, whether psychological or biological, to engineer people to be docile, to have the abilities that the system requires and to “sublimate” their drive for power into some specialized task."

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"Iowa women were better than Illini men" - Potomac

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