The L.C. Smith Collectors Association

The L.C. Smith Collectors Association
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USA-F barrel mark

Posted by Jeremy Toeper on September 1, 2025, 5:55 am
Edited by board administrator September 1, 2025, 5:17 pm

I have a 20 gauge LC Smith Field grade with barrel stamps I've never seen before. On both tubes it is stamped USA-P. Are these just proof stamps and have they been encountered before? I can't find any images with similar stamps.

Re: Unusual barrel proof stamp?

Posted by Stanley Hackett on September 1, 2025, 10:29 am, in reply to "Unusual barrel proof stamp?"

It could be USA-F, not USA-P. If so, use the search function on this Forum and you will find a lot of discussion and speculation (although no definitive answers).

Re: Unusual barrel proof stamp?

Posted by Drew Hause on September 1, 2025, 10:37 am, in reply to "Unusual barrel proof stamp?"

I agree it looks like the usual USA-F mark
Here's the most recent thread
https://members.boardhost.com/lcsmith/msg/1734198030.html

As Stanley observed, there is no definitive explanation for the USA-F mark, but it is thought to be a Hunter Arms' inspector's mark rather than a military mark. The mark has been found on guns that were not documented as Rochester Ordnance guns.
Have you requested a Research Letter?

Re: Unusual barrel proof stamp?

Posted by Jeremy Toeper on September 1, 2025, 11:33 am, in reply to "Re: Unusual barrel proof stamp?"

I haven't requested a research letter yet. I just took ownership, but I'm planning on a letter.

Re: Unusual barrel proof stamp?

Posted by Roger Domer on September 1, 2025, 1:49 pm, in reply to "Unusual barrel proof stamp?"

This code stands for 'U S Army' and the 'F' is a procurement instrument identifier code.

Google ...'ACQUISITION.GOV' Subpart 4.1603 Procedures (a)(3)(vi) and you will see The Instrument and the Letter Designation F. The description is - task orders, delivery orders or calls under indefinite-delivery including blanket purchase agreements; or basic ordering agreements.

I own a Rochester Ordinance Depot shotgun marked with USA-F too. It was shipped to the Ordinance Depot on Order No. 52308.

Re: Unusual barrel proof stamp?

Posted by Jeremy Toeper on September 1, 2025, 1:55 pm, in reply to "Re: Unusual barrel proof stamp?"

Would a research letter show that it was purchased by the Army Ordinance Department?

USA-F stamp

Posted by Drew Hause on September 1, 2025, 5:17 pm, in reply to "Unusual barrel proof stamp?"

Jeremy - what is the DOM of your gun?

More discussion here
https://members.boardhost.com/lcsmith/msg/1601152599.html

BTW: I changed the title so the thread would come up in a Search

Re: USA-F stamp

Posted by Jeremy Toeper on September 1, 2025, 6:24 pm, in reply to "USA-F stamp"

I don't know. When I try to use the DOM on the LC Smith site it wants me to log in. The serial number is 200462. If I believe the info giving on doublegunshop.com it was made in 1941.

Re: USA-F stamp

Posted by Jim Stubbendieck on September 1, 2025, 7:37 pm, in reply to "USA-F stamp"

Research letters for most L.C. Smith shotguns finished from 1918 to 1950 will include the shipping destination. The destination for the military shotguns was "Rochester Ordnance".

I agree with Dr. Drew that the USA-F is a barrel inspector's mark. Most shotguns with the USA-F mark were shipped to private companies and individuals and not to the military.

Re: USA-F stamp

Posted by Jeremy Toeper on September 2, 2025, 5:27 am, in reply to "Re: USA-F stamp"

I'll be getting a letter and sharing info later. Only after realizing that it reads USA-F did I find all the past posts speculating what it means. I never thought it an Ordinance gun, but did wonder why I didn't see it before. Unfortunately it appears we'll never have a definitive answer.

Re: USA-F stamp

Posted by Roger Domer on September 7, 2025, 4:51 am, in reply to "Re: USA-F stamp"

Hello Jim. Hope you and yours are well. Drew directed us to your FORUM message dated September 26, 2020. I am going to address some of your questions. Others, I will let alone because they would only be speculation. I agree, the explanation should be less interesting then we have made it. I do not believe that the USA-F markings are barrel inspector marks. It is a procurement instrument identifier code. My opinion is written below.

You asked what would be the reason for a hyphen in the USA-F marking? Military contracts have hyphens. Google - ‘Military Contract Number Examples’. You will see hyphens in contract numbers. Secondly, firearm inspector codes do not use hyphens. Google – ‘American Manufacturer Firearms Inspector Code Examples’. Thirdly, the military regulations under ACQUISITIONS, Subpart 4.1603(a)(3)(vi) shows the ‘F’ is a contracting instrument, e.g. purchase orders and orders. The ‘F’ designation and the contract hyphens are a strong indication that USA-F is a contract instrument identity code, and not an inspector code.

In the first paragraph you asked what would be the explanation for the USA-F markings appearing on shotguns made in 1939 at least two years before the first purchases were made from Hunter Arms Company stocks? The 1941 shotgun purchase was not the first time shotguns were manufactured and sold to the military. The purchases orders began in 1939. There had to have been a contract between the two parties before any work could be performed.

Your September 1, 2025 FORUM message asked why were so many USA-F marked shotguns shipped to private companies and individuals, and not to the military? The U S military entered into purchase agreements and Purchase Orders’ (contracts) with the Hunter Arms Company (HAC) with the intention of purchasing the agreed upon firearms. However, the U S military at some point changed their firearm acceptance criteria and the Smith shotguns no longer met their needs. The military decided that they needed firearms that mounted bayonets, had interchangeable parts without special fittings, shotguns that fired more than twice, and generally more adapted to combat operations. So the military did not purchase many of the shotguns that they ordered in contracts. This left HAC with inventory stock that they could sell to private companies and individuals. The U S military decided to purchase slide action and semi-auto shotguns by the tens of thousands from other manufacturers rather than choosing side by side shotguns. This is the likely scenario since HAC ended up selling only 2,288 shotguns to the military.

Re: USA-F barrel mark

Posted by glen Ruh on October 2, 2025, 11:12 am, in reply to "USA-F barrel mark"

This does not seem like a military stamping. I have a lettered 12-gauge 30" Featherweight manufactured and shipped to the Rochester arsenal.
in 1941. It is stamped with a US Ordnance flaming bomb plus a square logo that reads "MP A Co." and "NP.
Interestingly enough, it also has a second set of 26" barrels numbered to the gun, presumably done by the factory after WWII. A unique item?

Hunter Arms Co. Proof Mark

Posted by Drew Hause on October 2, 2025, 1:00 pm, in reply to "Re: USA-F barrel mark"

Glen: the stylized PM (Proof Mark) and HACo (Hunter Arms Co.) in a square over NP (Nitro Proof) first appeared on the barrel flats about 1922

A Research Letter should confirm if the 2nd barrels were originally ordered
https://lcsca.clubexpress.com/content.aspx?page_id=22&club_id=43784&module_id=245742

Dr. Jim recorded 108 2 barrel set Field grades

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