The L.C. Smith Collectors Association

The L.C. Smith Collectors Association
[ The L.C. Smith Collectors Association ]

HOT-revisited

Posted by David Williamson on February 5, 2025, 2:40 pm

From my previous post about the HOT safety I finally got a chance to look and find the other HOT gun I had, I found it and found another that I had forgotten about. Test both and the 12 ga. Field Grade would not go to SAFE with one barrel fired, the other a 16 ga. Field Grade would go to SAFE when only one barrel fired and not opened.
I originally was going to take two apart, on that did and one that didn't.
I took the 16 ga. apart and then re-assembled the receiver with the trigger plate housing, all the screws and made sure everything was working. The selector was set for firing the right barrel first, clamped a block of wood to the receiver and fired right side, safety was able to move to safe without doing anything. Safety worked and moved safety to fire second shot which was left side, worked as it should. Re-cocked both barrels and tried again, worked as stated above. I happened to notice that when my finger touched the trigger after firing right side the trigger plate dropped and was able to put safety on Safe. This got me thinking and I went and got another HOT gun that the safety would NOT go back to SAFE when fired but ot opened. I put snap caps in it and fired right side and then pushed trigger forward and was able to put safety on. Interesting.

I like most of you that own HOT guns probable have never had a reason to put the safety on after firing one barrel and not opening gun, but there might come a time as when Marty Stein tried and gun would not to to SAFE after firing right barrel and not breaking gun opened.
Unusual but could happen when under certain circumstances.

If anyone tries this, please let us know.

Re: HOT-revisited

Posted by Michael Tavary on February 5, 2025, 10:31 pm, in reply to "HOT-revisited"

Mechanical genius inspired.

Re: HOT-revisited

Posted by John Brownell on February 9, 2025, 11:01 am, in reply to "HOT-revisited"

I have 2 Smiths with HOT triggers, both work properly and I have had no issues with them. Out of curiosity I tried to "fire" one barrel and attempt to return the safety to "SAFE". Neither gun, a 1912 3E or a 1927 Specialty Grade would allow me to return to "SAFE" having fired only one chamber. This doesn't bother me as I use both of these guns for targets where 2 shells are fired.

Re: HOT-revisited

Posted by David Williamson on February 9, 2025, 1:03 pm, in reply to "Re: HOT-revisited"

John, if you get a chance did you try what I explained about firing one barrel and then pushing the trigger forward to see if the safety would then return to SAFE?

I tried this to one other gun that the safety would not return to SAFE and then tried dry firing one barrel and pushed the trigger forward and it did return to SAFE.

Re: HOT-revisited

Posted by John Brownell on February 10, 2025, 8:39 am, in reply to "Re: HOT-revisited"

Dave, I hadn't read your post before I tried my guns, but I will try your recommendation and report back.

Re: HOT-revisited

Posted by David Williamson on February 10, 2025, 3:33 pm, in reply to "Re: HOT-revisited"

Thanks John, it's something that might interest a few people but as you stated you and most others just break the gun open to reload it, but with a HOT you have to manually put the safety back on.

Re: HOT-revisited

Posted by Tom Garver on February 10, 2025, 4:30 pm, in reply to "Re: HOT-revisited"

Dave, I have 6 guns with the Hunter One Trigger from 1904-1950. I can't get any of them to the safe position after firing one barrel and it doesn't matter which barrel that I fire first. I have a 20 gauge Premier Skeet on my desk right now so I'll try to describe what I see. I think the issue is that the trigger action moves up as a unit to touch the seer to release the hammer. After firing the slide moves to the unfired side but the trigger action remains raised the slightest bit- not enough to engage the seer but enough that the vertical safety pin can't engage either. By pushing the trigger forward it allows the trigger action to set down fully on the assembly thereby allowing you to engage the safety. My guess is the guns that will return to safe after firing one barrel are worn in some fashion as the tolerance is pretty tight. Just my observation. Thanks, Tom

Re: HOT-revisited

Posted by Tom Archer on February 10, 2025, 9:54 pm, in reply to "Re: HOT-revisited"

Interesting topic David, so I dug out my 1925 vintage Ideal 12-bore HOT Smith, and this was the result of my dry-fire "test". I dry-fired the right barrel; and as you noted the safety slide could not be manually returned to safe after multiple attempts. But if I fired the gun, then slipped my index (trigger) finger behind the trigger and moved it forward slightly, the trigger reset and allowed the safety slide to be manually returned to the safe position.

Re: HOT-revisited

Posted by David Williamson on February 11, 2025, 6:00 am, in reply to "Re: HOT-revisited"

Thanks Tom, I'm glad someone else found this to work as I stumbled upon it accidently.
On my 16 ga. with the HOT the safety will return to safe after firing one barrel and not pushing the trigger forward. On another one that I was going to take apart the trigger could not be returned to safe but pushing the trigger slightly forward it would.

Tom Garver, I have no experience with these triggers but have assembled receiver without stock and with lock plates on and off to watch how it works, pretty amazing. The thing that I do know is that assembling everything to go back together everything has to be just right and one turn to tight or too loose on certain screws and trigger will not work. You have to be very careful when taking a Field Grade gun apart as the side plate connecting screw and the screw from the trigger plate to top tang (behind the safety) are of a different length. The side plate connecting screw's head is slightly thicker and fills the counter sunk hole in the lock plate. I say Field Grade because these screws are not engraved.

Re: HOT-revisited

Posted by Tom Garver on February 11, 2025, 7:14 am, in reply to "Re: HOT-revisited"

Yes, David. At 75 I've finally learned the round screw in the round hole but I can't tell you how many times I've put the screw in the wrong hole for the length. LOL

Re: HOT-revisited

Posted by John Pulis on February 11, 2025, 7:15 am, in reply to "HOT-revisited"

Thank you David. Always informative postings.

Re: HOT-revisited

Posted by David Williamson on February 12, 2025, 7:11 am, in reply to "Re: HOT-revisited"

Thanks John, I might not always be right but I try and welcome any input or help.

Design flaw

Posted by Jerry Andrews on February 17, 2025, 9:55 am, in reply to "HOT-revisited"

It’s a design, flaw, pure and simple. Sometimes the hook will slide down off the post and you can return the safety but most of the time that just doesn’t happen. It’s a horrible feature of the gun and one they probably never anticipated.
I have worked on hundreds of these triggers and there is actually a specific piece made from the factory that permitted a return pushrod to be used on an Lc Smith hunter one trigger. I’ll take a picture of it and add it here.

Re: Design flaw

Posted by David Williamson on February 17, 2025, 1:51 pm, in reply to "Design flaw"

Jerry you know more about these than I do, but take a HOT that does not return to safe after firing one barrel, push the trigger forward sometimes you will hear a "click", then try pushing the safety back to safe.

Many years ago I answered a post about HOT's not having a auto-safety feature and a gentleman wrote and sent a picture of his Specialty Grade that did have this feature from the factory. I have the picture some where but having difficulty finding it.

Re: Design flaw

Posted by John Brownell on February 19, 2025, 1:58 pm, in reply to "Re: Design flaw"

upon further investigation of my 1912 Gd. 3 with HOT I learned that after firing the right trigger and by pushing the trigger forward I could then turn the safety to the "SAFE" position. I also learned that by following this procedure even with the safety in "SAFE" position, I could then pull the trigger again and fire the left barrel. THIS IS AN UNSAFE CONDITION!!!!! Do not rely on the safety to put the gun in a safe condition. Break open the gun after firing one shot, put a fresh shell in the fired chamber, close the gun and place the safety in "SAFE".

Re: Design flaw

Posted by Mike Dean on February 19, 2025, 3:00 pm, in reply to "Re: Design flaw"

I had the same results as Tom Garver. I have a 1924 Ideal Grade LR/WF with the HOT and ejectors and is in very high condition and looks to have been used just a little. I tried what David said... Fired the right barrel and could not return the gun to SAFE manually; I was able to then lightly push the trigger forward and put the gun on SAFE..This same procedure also worked if I fired the left barrel first.
My gun WOULD NOT fire when in the SAFE position as John Brownell experienced.

Re: Design flaw

Posted by Mike Dean on February 19, 2025, 3:02 pm, in reply to "Re: Design flaw"

That should have read the same results as Tom Archer...

Re: Design flaw

Posted by David Williamson on February 19, 2025, 3:39 pm, in reply to "Re: Design flaw"

Thanks for the responses. The ones I tried after firing one barrel and pushing the trigger forward I was able to put the safety back to safe. Pushing the safety to fire I was then able to fire the other barrel.
I did not try what John had done by after pushing the trigger forward and sliding the safety back to safe and then pulling the trigger and it fired. I will have to try that and post it.

Tried another HOT, fired right barrel, pushed front rigger forward, pushing safety back to safe and tried pulling trigger, it would not fire other barrel.
see photo

As you can see once safety is on safe, trigger plate is blocked for second shot, pushing safety forward to fire releases safety latch to slide off trigger plate.

Re: Design flaw

Posted by Mike Dean on February 19, 2025, 3:41 pm, in reply to "Re: Design flaw"

FYI...

I wanted to say thank you to everyone who continues to post here and bring up the most interesting aspects of our hobby! I learn something new every time I look through our archives!

Bottom Line

Posted by Jerry Andrews on March 5, 2025, 9:32 am, in reply to "HOT-revisited"

Bottom line is that it’s a crappy issue. It’s unsafe. Way too much leeway for an accident. And I love the Smith guns as much as anyone. And yes all my hunting/shooting guns are Hunter One Trigger guns

Re: Bottom Line

Posted by David Williamson on March 5, 2025, 12:15 pm, in reply to "Bottom Line"

Jerry, it is something that I checked into for a member. I myself and others would just open the gun and place a new shell in and put the gun on Safe.
The mechanics of the HOT to me is a good trigger system and like I stated earlier, if you don't know what you are doing don't take a gun apart that has a HOT unless you know what you are doing.
These triggers have been bad-mouthed because of this.

Re: Bottom Line

Posted by Jerry Andrews on March 6, 2025, 6:26 am, in reply to "Re: Bottom Line"

I’ve installed over 50 HOTs in double trigger guns. I fully understand this trigger. I stand firm on the bad feature of not being able to put a gun back on safe after firing. The trigger requires very fine adjustment to work properly also. I’m just relaying my nearly 50 years experience working on these guns. Jerry

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