The L.C. Smith Collectors Association

The L.C. Smith Collectors Association
[ The L.C. Smith Collectors Association ]

What kind of shells to use?

Posted by Mike Girdner on October 9, 2021, 3:22 pm
Edited by board administrator October 9, 2021, 3:59 pm

I have a double barrel L.C. Smith Hunter Arms 12 gauge hammer gun Serial # H13xxx. The best I can tell made in 1919.
I usually use # 6 shot for small game. Are modern shells to hot for gun? What would be the correct load?

Re: What kind of shells to use?

Posted by Drew Hause on October 9, 2021, 3:58 pm, in reply to "What kind of shells to use?"

Mike: no > 100 year old gun can be presumed to be safe, with any load, until it has been evaluated by a double gun specialist.
Please see the FAQs esp. "Is my shotgun safe to shoot?"
https://lcsca.clubexpress.com/content.aspx?page_id=274&club_id=43784

After that evaluation, and establishing that there are no cracks in the head of the stock, 1 oz. at 1200 fps target and game loads (no steel) would be a good choice. Shot size does not matter.

Re: What kind of shells to use?

Posted by Doug Precourt on October 17, 2021, 7:42 am, in reply to "Re: What kind of shells to use?"

Dr Drew,
If the gun has met the basic criteria you outline above but has had the forcing cone bored out, which I understand reduces the pressure in the barrels, could slightly higher FPS shells (say 1220) be used?
Thanks

Re: What kind of shells to use?

Posted by Drew Hause on October 17, 2021, 10:04 am, in reply to "Re: What kind of shells to use?"

The short answer is "sure", but higher fps (or greater shot weight) = increased recoil = increased risk of cracks in the now > 100 year old wood. That risk can be mitigated by glasbedding the head of the stock, which I would recommend for someone using heavy turkey or waterfowl loads.

re: the forcing cone. Bell's study (here about 1/3 way down https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ZIo0y746UsSRZIgRuuxwAbZjSBHitO_EanvwLYc-kGA/edit ) does suggest that forcing cone lengthening will decrease chamber pressure slightly (more volume = less pressure).

As you know, pressure generates speed, but is not part of the recoil equation.
Contrary to the early marketing hyperbole, the consensus today is that cone lengthening does not lessen recoil, felt or otherwise.

Re: What kind of shells to use?

Posted by Doug Precourt on October 17, 2021, 12:01 pm, in reply to "Re: What kind of shells to use?"

Thanks Drew. My gun in question is a 1926 Elsie FW in 20 bore. The stock was recently glass bedded and the barrels have had no dents and I believe that the forcing cone was bored out. But that said, I should be ok using #4 or #5 size shot, 1oz loads with 1220 FPS for pheasants

Re: What kind of shells to use?

Posted by Drew Hause on October 17, 2021, 1:03 pm, in reply to "Re: What kind of shells to use?"

Hunter Arms Co. lengthened the 20 gauge chambers from 2 1/2" to 2 3/4" in 1936 Doug.
Were the chambers lengthened when the forcing cones were lengthened?
Knowing the end of the chamber wall thickness is critical, esp. for a 20g 2 1/2" chamber which has been lengthened.

Re: What kind of shells to use?

Posted by Charlie Brooks on October 17, 2021, 1:11 pm, in reply to "Re: What kind of shells to use?"

Doug,There was no mention of chamber length in all this discussion.20ga. guns of that era were 2.5".The load data you want to shoot is way hot for a 20ga.,even if it has 2.750" chambers.Check for the specs on the ammo you want to use,if it is factory ammo.Much of this foreign stuff is way over US specs today.Best of luck,Charlie.

Re: What kind of shells to use?

Posted by Doug Precourt on October 17, 2021, 10:44 pm, in reply to "Re: What kind of shells to use?"

Thanks Drew and Charlie,
All good points. Good thing I asked. The 20 gauge has had 2 3/4” chambers for as long as I have owned it, so the chambers must have been lengthened previously. As you know, getting 20 gauge ammo has been very difficult this last year so what I have on hand is what is pictured below. Factory #4s & #5s at 1220 FPS and #7 1/2 & #8 at 980/1100/1200 FPS. One usually needs #4, #5 or #6 shot for pheasants. I had assumed that with the stock head being glass bedded and forcing cone lengthened it might handle the 1220 FPS #4/#5 shells. Ill have the chamber wall thickness measured and likely only shoot at pheasants within 10 yards using the RST #7 1/2 shot, 1100 FPS shells. Let you know what I find out. Thanks again for your help.

Re: What kind of shells to use?

Posted by Doug Precourt on October 17, 2021, 10:46 pm, in reply to "Re: What kind of shells to use?"

End of chamber wall thickness

Posted by Drew Hause on October 18, 2021, 7:10 am, in reply to "Re: What kind of shells to use?"

Please let us know the numbers Doug.
> .100" would be nice but it is not uncommon for (presumed) unmolested small gauge barrels to be slightly less.
If the wall thickness is adequate (and that is breech to muzzle), with the previous glasbedding, I would use the 1 oz. at 1220 pheasant loads for wild birds, limiting shots to < 30 yards. They are too great a prize to lose when lightly hit.
Game farm birds take much less killing.

Re: End of chamber wall thickness

Posted by Doug Precourt on October 18, 2021, 5:28 pm, in reply to "End of chamber wall thickness"

Re: End of chamber wall thickness

Posted by Drew Hause on October 18, 2021, 5:46 pm, in reply to "Re: End of chamber wall thickness"

Thank you Doug. Looks good, and good hunting!

Re: End of chamber wall thickness

Posted by Doug Precourt on October 19, 2021, 12:05 am, in reply to "Re: End of chamber wall thickness"

No, thank you both for your comments and assistance. Colorado pheasant opener is November 13th and I will be introducing my first pointing bird dog, Scout, to wild birds. He is a 16 month old French Brittany Spaniel, and we have been training together for over a year.

« Back to index

1033

[ The L.C. Smith Collectors Association ]