The L.C. Smith Collectors Association

The L.C. Smith Collectors Association
[ The L.C. Smith Collectors Association ]

1928 FW 16 gauge stock issue

Posted by Les Lippert on July 9, 2021, 8:22 am

Had a gunsmith repair a couple of hairline cracks near stock head and they cut away wood at the sidelocks so there is a 1/16" - 3/32" gap all the way around. I'm gutted. Working with them on a solution, but restocking seems like the only one. Take a look at the pics and give me your advice. Where can I find a stock and someone to fit it properly? Any suggestions for finding an original?

space pictures to color

Re: 1928 FW 16 gauge stock issue

Posted by Dan Wildhaber on July 9, 2021, 11:11 am, in reply to "1928 FW 16 gauge stock issue"

That's too bad.
The cheap solutions are not good.
The good solutions are not cheap.
Did they offer any explanation why they did that?
Is the stock in otherwise good condition?

Re: 1928 FW 16 gauge stock issue

Posted by Les Lippert on July 9, 2021, 12:55 pm, in reply to "Re: 1928 FW 16 gauge stock issue"

No explanation yet, Dan. I'll be receiving a call from the head gunsmith early next week. The rest of the stock is perfectly fine, as is the rest of the gun. I use it for sporting clays league and bird hunting all winter long, and have a second set of barrels for it. I always shoot RST shells or load low pressure rounds for clays. It is used and well taken care of.

Re: 1928 FW 16 gauge stock issue

Posted by Drew Hause on July 9, 2021, 6:08 pm, in reply to "Re: 1928 FW 16 gauge stock issue"

Dyed acraglas could be used to fill the gaps Les. Where are you located?

Re: 1928 FW 16 gauge stock issue

Posted by Dan Wildhaber on July 9, 2021, 8:05 pm, in reply to "Re: 1928 FW 16 gauge stock issue"

Les, What Dr Drew suggests is probably the solution since the rest of the stock is good.
If you replace an otherwise good stock your gun will be that much less original and and then there’s the potential of other problems.
Even well done, the Acraglas will still be somewhat noticeable and probably give you a little heartburn every time you see it.
Sad deal.

Re: 1928 FW 16 gauge stock issue

Posted by Phil Carr on July 9, 2021, 10:11 pm, in reply to "Re: 1928 FW 16 gauge stock issue"

Do you have some before pictures?
No offense but It seems like the gun has been used pretty hard and replacing a stock on this gun far exceeds the value in my opinion.
I would think that negotiating to sell this gun to the smith or some sort of credit might be best.
As Drew suggest a dyed epoxy would be the most likely repair if the gun was mine.
Buying a stock on eBay or a member is possible but the stock may not fit.

Re: 1928 FW 16 gauge stock issue

Posted by Zachary Hopkins on July 10, 2021, 7:52 am, in reply to "1928 FW 16 gauge stock issue"

A good stock person could shave the surface down on each side of the lock plates and add a piece similar to that of a laminate and the side plates be re inletted. This can be done in a way that is unnoticeable. This is something though that the average gunsmith is not capable of doing and should be done by an expert.

Re: 1928 FW 16 gauge stock issue

Posted by Les Lippert on July 10, 2021, 5:30 pm, in reply to "1928 FW 16 gauge stock issue"

Head gunsmith’s response:

“I talked with Jake (gunsmith) and also looked over the stock.

Although I agree with your comment about having proper "surface connection" for spreading out the recoil absorption on wood, I disagree with the "ruined" comment. I own and have seen many of these stocks with small gaps, etc and it does not create cracks. Rather, the inside, non visible area is where your recoil support needs to be on these models...also the bottom of receiver.

I have fixed many LC's with minor cracks, and usually I throw lots of Acraglas on the inside around the trigger group, and top lever area which actually contacts wood and is responsible for support. The trigger guard is the same way, it touches the wood, but is not a viable crack area under recoil.

Jake fixed the cracks earlier for you pretty much for free, because we usually charge $350-400 for case coloring, and he charged 350 total for repairs and for the coloring. You brought the wood back a 2nd time for repair, the cracks were actually in a different spot than before. He fixed them, relieved the area around the side plates because the insides had many small cracks starting. Usually, that is how we fix them, and then we sometimes will add Acraglas to the area....but most of the time it is more appealing NOT to add the Acraglas as it gives a cheapened look to the wood. He chose to not do this on yours as he thought it would look better.

If you want, I can add the Acraglas to those areas he sanded back and try to get as close a match to the wood as I can. But I truly felt he did the correct procedure and the stock is far from ruined..Rather, he did a great job on the earlier cracks, and they did not return.

Mike”

Good response or BS? I value all of your opinions and thank you for your feedback. I’d like be fairly treated and to treat others fairly, too.

Re: 1928 FW 16 gauge stock issue

Posted by Les Lippert on July 10, 2021, 5:34 pm, in reply to "Re: 1928 FW 16 gauge stock issue"
Edited by board administrator July 10, 2021, 5:56 pm

Before pic shows proper original fit. It’s the one on the right.

Re: 1928 FW 16 gauge stock issue

Posted by Drew Hause on July 10, 2021, 6:07 pm, in reply to "Re: 1928 FW 16 gauge stock issue"

A reminder from the header
"The Forum is not to be used as a venue for airing grievances with the LCSCA, gun clubs, gun dealers, or gunsmiths."

Les: I appreciate your disappointment and frustration, and thank you for not naming the gunsmith.
You have received recommendations for resolution of the problem.
If you would please post your email, LCSCA members can contact you privately.

Re: 1928 FW 16 gauge stock issue

Posted by Les Lippert on July 10, 2021, 7:10 pm, in reply to "Re: 1928 FW 16 gauge stock issue"

I can be reached at lesl@lipperttile.com.

Just want to know if I’m being treated fairly.

Re: 1928 FW 16 gauge stock issue

Posted by Bill Schodllatz on July 19, 2021, 7:56 pm, in reply to "Re: 1928 FW 16 gauge stock issue"

Your gun looks like the metal has been refinished and is a field grade. As such it is a nice shooter and not a special collector. Glass bedding is the best way to preserve a shooting LCS and should not be anything near the cost of restocking. You might want to invite the "smith" to help with the cost.

Bill

Re: 1928 FW 16 gauge stock issue

Posted by Michael Harris on December 7, 2022, 8:05 am, in reply to "Re: 1928 FW 16 gauge stock issue"

Les, I would contact Bill May. He is an absolute miracle worker when it comes to wood. Best, Mike

Re: 1928 FW 16 gauge stock issue

Posted by Zachary Hopkins on December 7, 2022, 5:59 pm, in reply to "Re: 1928 FW 16 gauge stock issue"

I actually spent a night and a day at Bill's a month ago and he is beyond talented. He did an intensive repair on a pigeon straight stock that I myself and others thought was beyond repair. To say the repair is great is an understatement. Zachary

Re: 1928 FW 16 gauge stock issue

Posted by Tom Archer on December 8, 2022, 1:58 pm, in reply to "Re: 1928 FW 16 gauge stock issue"

For what my opinion is worth, whoever did the work is a hack and not a gunsmith; and personally, I'd be mad as hello at what was done to my gun. And from my personal experience, if this guy did this poorly the first time; don't think for a second that a do-over by this guy will yield a better result. The correct way to repair this stock is to splice wood onto the ruined areas as already suggested, then inlet the side locks. After fitting, a professional can blend the repair so that it's undetectable. As other posters have suggested, Bill May would be a great option to consider as he's repaired several Smith and other make stocks for me and does incredible stock repair. I won't speculate on cost, but Bill's always been fair with me.
I'm assuming this is a special or favorite gun; and if it were mine, I'd be insulted with any suggestion to sell or trade. The bottom line is that you made a bad decision using this gunsmith; so use this as a learning experience as you pay for and obtain for PhD in vintage double gun collecting. I've screwed up similarly many times myself, we all have; and assuming this is a special gun, my suggestion is to bite the bullet and pay for a proper repair whether doing so makes dollars and cents or not. Clearly the first gunsmith will be no help. Certainly, you should attempt to get some reimbursement if possible; but whether you do or not, resolve to avoid this outfit at all costs going forward. Good luck!

Re: 1928 FW 16 gauge stock issue

Posted by Stan Hillis on December 10, 2022, 6:07 am, in reply to "Re: 1928 FW 16 gauge stock issue"

If a mistake was made by the owner when contracting this repair, my take is that the owner should have asked more questions of the 'smith about how he would go about the repair. 'Smiths are individuals, and different ones have different takes on what the best solutions to a specific problem are. A firm caveat by the owner to not cut away wood around the rear of the lock plates, before leaving the gun with him, may have prevented this unsightly "repair", or at least given the owner more "purchase" in negotiating a solution after the screw -up.

I've made similar mistakes myself in dealing with gunsmiths, and have learned that you cannot be too specific about your expectations. They often tend to hurry through the initial visit so they can get back to work making a living, but making them take more time to discuss the job can only help you. If you email them, save the emails and replies until satisfied that your expectations have been met.

Re: 1928 FW 16 gauge stock issue

Posted by Louis Rotelli on December 12, 2022, 8:14 am, in reply to "1928 FW 16 gauge stock issue"

I can't figure out what the logic was for opening up a gap around the side plates. The repair should not be very expensive. It would involve adding a wood inlay, glued in around the lokcs and then re-inletted so it fits snugly around the lock plates. Sand, stain to match and finished. It would not harm the stock and evenm the missing wood below the lock plates could be repaired at the same time.

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