Thank you for the replies. I know what you mean, Bill. It makes for a bit of a disjointed thread with the answers coming before the questions. This site is continually improving and I'm sure it will get straightened out. I bought the Ideal with the Nydar. I haven't seen it yet, but my father picked it up yesterday for me. He says it is in very good shape. Perfect bores and absolutely tight. Barrel blue only slightly faded near the fences. A few small dings in the stock and the case colour is faded. The guy I bought it from said it was originally his grandfather's who shot it little and past it on to his father who never shot it. It was passed on to him in his father's estate and he had never shot it either. It was obvious while talking to him the rifles that he inherited had more meaning for him. I think I'll leave the nydar on it and give it a try on decoying geese when I visit my father, should be interesting. This gun is serial #341985. According to the information on this site that would make it the 267th 10 or 12 gauge made in 1913 when they changed to the new models. Is the number of the first Ideal known? On another subject I picked up a real nice 00 20 gauge with 26" barrels and ejectors today. I haven't measured the chambers properly but it appears to have 2 3/4" chambers. They don't look like they have been altered. Were 2 1/2" standard on the 00 grade? Thank you for any help you might provide.