Thanks, that's kind of what I expected but wasn't sure. I have a set of 28 gauge Rhino Stingers which are 15" long and have their own choke tubes that work fairly well since they are long enough for a reasonable powder burn and have gauge size choke tubes. With their O ring system they stay in the barrels pretty well as long as you use AA or STS shells. A friend has a pair of the newer style 20 gauge Sidekicks with the longer tubes in a Model 21 skeet that he says patterns fine for skeet but hasn't shot them at any longer distances. I'm going to borrow them in a couple of weeks and run some pattern testing in a FW 12 gauge with Mod/Full chokes and see what they look like.