AG and MM Board

Trying to decipher NAVPERS-553 re; Fathers WW2 Service

Posted by Clay B. Olson on November 7, 2023, 3:34 pm

Leslie R. Manske has long since passed. I am trying to understand his service record. From National Personnel Records Center I got a copy of the notice of separation. What does "AG Sch" mean in box 23? In box 24, all it says is, "NTS, Gt. Lakes, ILL, NTC (AG) Gulfport, Miss, "AGCNOCA" and finally, "USNTC, Gt. Lakes, ILL. Was he an "Armed Guard"? How do I know any ships he was on? A brother had told years ago, that he had a ship sink under him.

Re: Trying to decipher NAVPERS-553 re; Fathers WW2 Service

Posted by Jennifer Holik on December 22, 2023, 5:13 pm, in reply to "Trying to decipher NAVPERS-553 re; Fathers WW2 Service"

Because enough time has passed you can request his entire OMPF (service file) From NPRC in St. Louis. You don't have to be next of kin to get it at this point if he was discharged in 1945-1946. That file will contain more information than what's on the discharge.

Once you have it, sort it into date order and do not toss the pages that appear to be duplicates. They are not. The Navy would create a document and then it would go to other offices and get a stamp or date or something added. So they are not duplicates but do contain additional information.

Put the file into chronological order because it won't come that way then create a timeline of service so you can clearly see dates, ships/stations, and details. Once you have this information, Then there will be deck logs at NARA College Park and other records like unit histories, action reports, photos, etc. Some may also be on Ancestry and Fold3 like Navy Muster Rolls or WWII War Diaries.

If you want to see some examples of Navy service files, you can visit my website WWII Research and Writing Center. Go to Research Resources and WWII Record Examples. You'll find some there. My grandpa served in the USNR Armed Guard as well. There will be separate Armed Guard deck logs at NARA.

Re: Trying to decipher NAVPERS-553 re; Fathers WW2 Service

Posted by Clay B. Olson on December 22, 2023, 7:16 pm, in reply to "Re: Trying to decipher NAVPERS-553 re; Fathers WW2 Service"

Thank you so much, Jennifer Holik, for this information! This would certainly shed a lot more light on Mr. Manske's service. I will look at your website and take tips and hints from there. I hope you don't mind, but I may pick your brain again. And, of course, a Big Thanks for your Grandfathers service. I will let you know what I find. Merry Christmas!

Re: Trying to decipher NAVPERS-553 re; Fathers WW2 Service

Posted by Jennifer Holik on December 23, 2023, 2:19 pm, in reply to "Re: Trying to decipher NAVPERS-553 re; Fathers WW2 Service"

You're welcome Clay.

Re: Trying to decipher NAVPERS-553 re; Fathers WW2 Service

Posted by Ron Carlson on November 7, 2023, 9:50 pm, in reply to "Trying to decipher NAVPERS-553 re; Fathers WW2 Service"

Here’s my take. First of all Leslie Manske was an Armed Guard. Box 23, AG Sch, means Armed Guard School, although I would expect to see a specific school identified.

Box 24: NTS Great Lakes refers to Naval Training Station. Great Lakes, Ill was an important Navy basic training facility.

NTC (AG), Gulfport, Miss, meaning Naval Training Center, was a major U.S. Navy training facility, part of which involved Armed Guard gunnery training.

AGCNOCA probably contains a typo. I think it means Armed Guard Center in New Orleans but should read AGCNOLA rather than “…NOCA.” There were three Armed Guard Centers, with all Armed Guard personnel assigned to one of the three. The other Centers were in Brooklyn and Treasure Island, CA, i. e., San Francisco Bay. Each Center dispatched Armed Guard personnel to ships operating in certain areas; the New Orleans Center assigned personnel to ships operating in the Caribbean, the Gulf of Mexico and the South Atlantic. Between shipboard assignments, each Center served as home away from home for Armed Guard sailors and officers assigned to that Center.

Finally USNTC, Great Lakes, means he was once again assigned to the Great Lakes, Ill, training center. It might have been for additional training or to serve as an instructor or, depending on the applicable dates, to process his discharge.

As to the ships to which he was assigned I will have to dig a little deeper.

Ron Carlson, Webmaster
Armed Guard / Merchant Marine website

Re: Trying to decipher NAVPERS-553 re; Fathers WW2 Service

Posted by Clay B. Olson on November 7, 2023, 11:27 pm, in reply to "Re: Trying to decipher NAVPERS-553 re; Fathers WW2 Service"

I truly appreciate this information, Ron Carlson! Leslie Manske was inducted in july 1944, and Honorably discharged in 04/30/46. If there is any more info I can offer, please don't hesitate to ask. Unfortunately, I did not know this man was my father, until about a year ago. I have now, a new sister and brother, but neither has much of any info regarding his service. I want to honor his WW2 service in any way I can. Thank you so much!!

Re: Trying to decipher NAVPERS-553 re; Fathers WW2 Service

Posted by J.P. Green on November 18, 2023, 10:42 pm, in reply to "Re: Trying to decipher NAVPERS-553 re; Fathers WW2 Service"

Clay: my first thoughts are to salute you for trying to learn more about your father, despite what must have been startling circumstances. And as to Leslie's assignments, you reference possession of his Notice of Separation. Are there no ships listed? I ask because I have my grandfather's Notice of Separation ("NAVPERS-553" is noted under that title). Box 24 is titled "SERVICE (VESSELS AND STATIONS SERVED ON)" which lists his three Armed Guard assignments. Above those are references to his Armed Guard School (Gulfport) and his Armed Guard Center (Brooklyn, dispatching ships to the Med, N.Atlantic, etc.). Take another peek at his document and see if anything's there. -JPG

Re: Trying to decipher NAVPERS-553 re; Fathers WW2 Service

Posted by Clay B. Olson on November 18, 2023, 10:52 pm, in reply to "Re: Trying to decipher NAVPERS-553 re; Fathers WW2 Service"

Thanks so much, J.P. Green for not only responding, but for your grandfathers service, and possibly your own! In Box 24, all it says is NTS, Gt. Lakes, Ill, NTC (AG) Gulfport, Miss., AGCNOCA ( which another member said is likely a typo, and should read AGCNOLA. But, I do know that the AG's also shipped out of California, so maybe the "CA" is correct? The last line, is USNTC, Gt. Lakes, ILL. Leslie's brother and ex-wife ( not my mother), both told family that his service was in the Pacific . Nothing about the Atlantic or Carribean, as would have been the service area if based out of New Orleans. There are no other vessels or stations listed. He rec'd his honorable discharge in 1946, Thank you again for responding.

Re: Trying to decipher NAVPERS-553 re; Fathers WW2 Service

Posted by J.P. Green on November 20, 2023, 10:34 pm, in reply to "Re: Trying to decipher NAVPERS-553 re; Fathers WW2 Service"

By the way, as you dig into some research, this site armed-guard.com and its parent[?] site ssjohnwbrown.org have lots of good info.

Ron sometimes posted info in the association's newsletters "The Pointer" :
https://armed-guard.com/pointer.html
See the March-May 2011 issue, p.3, for an example. Can't vouch for the links now, but...

The Navy's own historians have some solid info at (https://www.history.navy.mil/research/library/online-reading-room/title-list-alphabetically/n/naval-armed-guard-service-in-world-war-ii.html) with further sub-tabs on the left column.

Re: Trying to decipher NAVPERS-553 re; Fathers WW2 Service

Posted by J.P. Green on November 20, 2023, 10:23 pm, in reply to "Re: Trying to decipher NAVPERS-553 re; Fathers WW2 Service"

Clay: appreciate the compliment, but it's all grandpa's; I'm in the category "Civilian Admirer".

I think Webmaestro Ron is probably right, that the abbreviation should be AGCNOLA -- unless Treasure Island was abbreviated AGCNOCA in reference to NOrthern CAlifornia? Ron, you've forgotten more than the rest of us will ever know. Your call! Clay's family's lore regarding the Pacific is intriguing.

Here's a thought about the lack of ships noted on his record: did he get assigned to one at all? You note above that Leslie wasn't inducted until July 1944. It's not out of the question that, by the time he completed training, the Navy was already transitioning Armed Guard personnel to other duties on USN vessels incl. warships. My grandfather's last AG assignment was completed 10/17/1944, and after the turn of the year he was assigned to a brand-new destroyer that, as it turned out, never saw action. It's possible your father wasn't actually needed for AG service by the time it was all said & done.

Re: Trying to decipher NAVPERS-553 re; Fathers WW2 Service

Posted by Clay B. Olson on November 20, 2023, 11:48 pm, in reply to "Re: Trying to decipher NAVPERS-553 re; Fathers WW2 Service"

That is entirely possible, J.P. Green. I agree with you, regarding Ron's info as well, as I do not know much of anything regarding this branch of the Navy, other than the direction Ron has given, and yourself. I really appreciate all the input I have gotten, and look forward to learning all I can. Thank you, so much.

Re: Trying to decipher NAVPERS-553 re; Fathers WW2 Service

Posted by J.P. Green on November 24, 2023, 9:10 pm, in reply to "Re: Trying to decipher NAVPERS-553 re; Fathers WW2 Service"

Keep us posted on what you learn!

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