: teach right out of the gate. You might as
: well say, "It's a sin to be born,"
: or, "It's a sin to be alive." All
: part of christianity's scare tactic to
: enslave impressionable minds. Truth is that
: we are all born atheist until someone fills
: our heads with lies and myths.
I'm sorry you see it that way. It might actually be more similar to the quote where "We're all born as atheists" than you realize. I'm not aware of many people who wake up and ask, "What would make GOD feel pleased today?" Instead, we kind of pursue our own agenda.
In terms of causing harm, should I not tell a blind person to stop walking towards a cliff? I might scare him/her!! Actually, they can't even hear me say, "STOP!" because maybe they're also deaf. Yet, I shouldn't try to stand in front of them or get their attention another way. That sounds kind of silly.
: Just like christianity. When you look at it
: objectively there are WAY too many things
: that are hard or impossible to answer. It's
: like the saying goes, "I contend that
: we are both atheists. I just believe in one
: less god than you do. When you understand
: why you dismiss all other gods you'll
: understand why I dismiss yours."
Even if there are other "gods," why did demons take orders from Jesus? Why did the wind stop blowing and waves calm down just by Him saying something or His physical presence? "Mother Nature" and every other "god" must be under His authority. In that sense, have I "dismissed" them, or put them in a hierarchy of ranks and authority levels?
: At least those people have a sense of
: reality unlike the ones that claim the Earth
: is only about 6000 years old. WAY too much
: scientific evidence for that argument. And
: if there's any doubt, you've got to the
: check out the Bill Nye vs Ken Ham debate.
: I'm still not sure if it was Bill's
: intelligence or Ken's ineptness that made
: the difference in that debate.
The 6,000 years can be supported by looking at archaeology and the family tree of Jesus. There are only 77 generations listed between Adam and Jesus. Scholars add up the years and only get a few thousand (plus whatever time has passed since He was born). The main part that gets disputed are the first five "days of creation" before there were any humans. You could also search in Wikipedia for the "Sumerian king list" and see how those humans were living for hundreds of years, but then something happened to change the environment, and we only live a fraction of that time. Scientists don't seem to want to go there.
The debate repulsed me, because Bill Nye was so overtly political, and never answered the main question. Are you going to talk about "science" or ask voters to donate more tax dollars to get some kind of degree program in the local college? Ken Ham didn't seem to be on his game, but the format wasn't going to allow him to cover anything in depth. He could've probably focused on just the idea of "one race" (which the Bible has always supported) for several hours.
: He may have TRIED to be perfect but he was
: only human as illustrated by the story where
: he went into a place and was tossing tables
: over. Heck, there are people in today's
: society that TRY to be perfect but being
: human is being human and sometimes emotions
: get the better of a person. Granted the
: Jesus character in the bible is pretty much
: a made up character but still... even that
: character wasn't infallible. Heck, even as
: much good as Superman does in his universe
: he has his "down times".
I think I've tried to explain that story before. "A place" was the main temple in Jerusalem. It wasn't the first time He had told the merchants to knock it off. What they did was, when people had walked who knows how many miles to worship at that temple, they were told to trade in their foreign money for whatever was the local currency, and got CHEATED on the exchange rate. Some of them were told that the animals they brought for a sacrifice were flawed or not perfect enough, so they were pressured to buy other ones (probably at a ridiculous price - similar to when you go to the movies, an airport, a sporting event ...).
If Jesus HADN'T gotten mad, or acted out, that would bother me more. You already told these people to quit cheating the foreigners, and they defied Your orders? These folks were driven away, instead of having religious freedom to worship? You made a profit off of them because they didn't know any better?
I also don't see "losing your cool" or being angry as a sign of being "human" or "imperfect." What else would be the "perfect" reaction to something unfair, as long as the anger is in the right proportion and only lasts enough time to deal with the injustice? We tend to stay mad or lash out at people who aren't the real source of the anger.
: Oh, and answering the question in the
: subject line... We can only hope information
: like that video helps to open minds and make
: people live in the real world (as imperfect
: as it is) instead of focusing on a supposed
: afterlife based on mythological tales. I
: grew up in and around christianity and I was
: able to open my eyes & mind and get away
: from that brainwashing and mind control and
: always hope others can do the same. To
: steal a line from Morpheus in "The
: Matrix"... "FREE. YOUR.
: MIND." :-)
And "Morpeus" isn't a fictional character from a fictional story?
In the end, I don't see how either "extreme" wouldn't lead to "slavery," or how the "religious" view is a bad way of thinking. Are people who see government and science as the answer to everything "free" to not want a government/scientific solution and apply those laws to everyone else? They don't even sound "free" to believe in an afterlife.
The thing that bugs me the most about politics is that people are ultimately responsible to say "NO" to their own impulses. When they don't, that's the main reason why you need a bunch of laws and fellow humans to enforce them. Yet, I don't trust that everyone is going to control their own impulses, because it's humanly impossible. They don't want to seek help from God, either, regardless of whether He's their only hope.
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