Hey guys, I appreciate these types of discussions, as stalling is easily the call that I see as the most subjective (besides calling pins, but that's another discussion).
These two situations have come up over the past few weeks. Although it is junior high (meaning a lot more sloppy and a lot less experienced), situations like these probably do come up at the higher levels, so I'm interested in the right way to call them.
1) Wrestler A is on top starting in referee's position. On the whistle, B immediately stands up and suddenly they're both out of bounds. I call "out of bounds" and restart. It happens again, and I can't tell if A is running B out or if B is running to the edge. It really looks like B is trying to use "escape by running" and A is using "keep in control by running" but isn't making a big effort to slow B down. I tell both to stay in the center. On the restart, it happens again. This time, B tries to slam on the brakes at the edge and A steamrolls him out of bounds, so I give A a stall warning. On the restart, I see B make a beeline to the edge (A is starting to try to slow him down), then slam on the brakes again. This time, I give B a stall warning.
By this point, both coaches are pointing fingers at the other kid.
How should I have handled it better? Should I have been calling TV's for fleeing instead? I told both to wrestle to center each time we restarted, but both were going towards the OOB line each time. What methods do you use to keep them in the center if they both keep running to the edge?
2) Wrestler A is on top and ahead by 1. Wrestler B keeps getting broken down, then getting back up to his base, then broken down, then back up to his base... you get the idea. Wrestler A is certainly working to break B down, but isn't doing anything to turn B or further apply pressure, just riding (meaning B gets back up easily). He isn't staying on the hips, but he's not trying to apply any form of pinning combination. B is also not attempting to stand up - once he gets to his base he pretty much freezes until he's broken down again.
Since there was continuous (albeit repetitive) action, I elected to let the match continue as-was. At the last second, B reverses A and wins the match. A's coach comes running up and asks, "What does it take to get a stalling call on B?" I explained that both wrestlers had worked to improve position at about the same pace. The coach argued that B didn't really try to get out until the last 10 seconds (which was true, although he did keep coming up to his base), but A wasn't aggressively wrestling to secure the fall, either.
What would you guys call? In a situation like this, where they were pretty much alternating who was advancing and who was freezing, should I just let it go as-is or should I call a stall or even stalemate (although they weren't locked in position) on someone?
1) If I were a coach in this situation I would let my kid know that he needs to steer the action towards the center of the mat or he will be running a little extra at practice the next day rather than point the finger at the other kid. Based on your description I would have hit both with a TV when they committed their respective offenses. There is no reason in the world why they can't keep running at full steam and run in a circle towards the center of the mat...no reason at all. I would ignore the coaches until one of them came to the table to request a conference, and then address the situation there.
2) This sounds like very typical middle school wrestling. It drives me nuts when I see some of my kids do this. You know they can score points, but they aren't trying very hard. It's hard to decide what to do when you get in this situation. If it were high school I would try to identify the wrestler who appears to be stalling and penalize him. If it's middle school wrestling I would probably just let them go. If A doesn't want to try to score points, but allows B to reverse him at the end, then he got what he worked for. It seems that the kids that try to score more points at this level tend to score more points, and the ones who don't, don't. When I coach middle school wrestling, I don't expect to get stall calls from the referees, but if I do, then it is a nice surprise...it has nothing to do with the quality of the officiating, it has only to do with the level of wrestling...the coaches over here are all very patient with the matches and the outcomes because they recognize the level of the wrestling and understand that the goal is to improve their wrestlers skills rather than win every match. I would rather see a wrestler do things well, and execute his moves and lose his match than see him win with sloppy wrestling and poor technique that will fail him when he competes with better wrestlers. If my wrestler stalls for the last round and then loses in the last 5 seconds because he didn't try to score points, then that is just the way it goes, and he is going to have to learn that when he doesn't try to score when he has the chance, he'll reduce his chances of winning (I actually had this happen with 2 of my wrestlers last week at Moses Lake).
Sounds to me like you probably nailed it. Just my opinion, though.
"1) Wrestler A is on top starting in referee's position. On the whistle, B immediately stands up and suddenly they're both out of bounds...."
When you couldn't tell whether B was running out of bounds or A was pushing out of bounds, no call is the right call. Warning both wrestlers after each OOB scenario is also appropriate and helpful. But at some point you have to figure out who is causing OOB and penalize one, or both, wrestlers.
A couple of tips: If the offensive wrestler is bent at the waste and his shoulder is in the back of the defensive wrestler, there is a very good chance that the offensive wrestler is driving the situation out of bounds. Look at the offensive wrestler's shoulders to see if he is trying to return the wrestler to the mat, or just following the other wrestler, or actually trying to drive the defensive wrestler OOB.
Another item to look for is foot prints on the edge of the mat. You only have a second or so to see them, but if you look at the footprints the two wrestlers left in the mat just before the OOB line, and you see one set of toe prints (pushing out of bounds) and another set of heal prints (digging in to stay in bounds), you'll know how to call the situation. But you have to look fast because the mat indentations disappear quickly.
One more thing on this scenario - if you believe that you saw the defensive wrestler run for the edge, and then stop and dig in, and the offensive wrestler then push the defensive wrestler out, the right call could be stalling on defense (playing the edge of the mat) and TV on offense (forcing your opponent off the mat). That's sure to tick both coaches off, but it can also drive home your warnings to the wrestlers that all wrestling should happen in the middle.
"2) Wrestler A is on top and ahead by 1. Wrestler B keeps getting broken down, then getting back up to his base, then broken down, then back up to his base..."
This is a tough scenario. You can't penalize wrestlers for just being bad at the craft (though we may like to ), and it could be that what you were witnessing was just extra-ordinarily bad Jr High wrestling. But if you were to decide that either wrestler is stalling, you (and the wrestlers) will be better off if you make that decision early in the match. That way you set expectations for the wrestlers and coaches, and you give the wrestlers a chance to wrestle correctly (aggressively) before the final seconds.
If you were to let this situation stand until the last 20 seconds and then call stalling, you've become a factor in the match on two counts. First with the 1:40 of non-calls, and then with the stall call in the last 20 seconds.
All I can suggest here is make up your mind early, and then act (or not) consistently through the rest of the match.
on 3/9/2010, 11:04 am
), and it could be that what you were witnessing was just extra-ordinarily bad Jr High wrestling. But if you were to decide that either wrestler is stalling, you (and the wrestlers) will be better off if you make that decision early in the match. That way you set expectations for the wrestlers and coaches, and you give the wrestlers a chance to wrestle correctly (aggressively) before the final seconds.