On the other board there is a good discussion of the stall call against Metcalf when he was being leg ridden by Palmer. I think BTB summarized the the issue well.
My question is: when is the top man guilty of stalling with the leg ride? You see many wrestlers put in either one or both boots, but they don't really succeed at turning the bottom man. It is mainly a ride. Then you see guys putting in the leg as their opponent stands up to force a halt to the action and re-start.
How do the rules apply to stalling relative to the top man using leg rides?
For me, I'm always evaluating whether the actions of the wrestler are advancing toward scoring. With the leg ride applied, here are some things I am thinking in those situations:
1. With the legs in, does the top man make progress toward near fall? Progress means advancing from:
a. Bottom man on all fours b. Bottom man broken down c. Bottom man with shoulders heading toward NF criteria d. Bottom man with shoulders in NF criteria
2. When progress stops, how long is long enough? For me, somewhere around 10 - 15 seconds with no progress (a thru d) means the situation has gone on long enough. First time around, I'll call stalemate.
3. If the top man puts the legs in again, he already has established a track record that he couldn't turn the leg ride into NF. So, once the situation stops making progress, I will call a stalemate after 5 - 10 seconds a second time. At this time, I verbalize to the wrestlers, "Reminder wrestlers, repeated stalemates can be construed as stalling."
4. Legs in a third time and no progress after 5 - 10 seconds, I call stalling on the top man.
Also, I (and most officials) put a greater burden on the top man to demonstrate something with those legs than on the bottom man. Why? Because the bottom man is definitely disadvantaged when his opponent is applying a solid leg ride. It takes a lot of work for the bottom guy to avoid getting turned, and if he can avoid that, a lot of work to get those legs out. I might consider stalling on the bottom man only if he remains in a defendable position and does absolutely nothing else. But, I would tell you, that it is rare that the bottom man can achieve this - normally, against a legitimate leg rider, that bottom guy is having to fight hard to defend against that leg ride and is demonstrating some aggressive activity.
As for the situation where the top man puts in legs AFTER the bottom man stands, then I'd call Potentially Dangerous the first time. If it happened again, I'd call PD + Stalling. That particular action by the top man does nothing to advance toward scoring.
Re: What I look for
Posted by Pete Holdaas on 3/14/2010, 3:51 pm, in reply to "What I look for"
Thanks. I wish all refs applied the rules this way. One thing I have noticed in watching flowrestling videos of high school wrestlers back east is that they throw in legs and ride opponents for a long time with little or no progress. If anything the refs will call a stalemate but not stalling. They can burn up a whole round this way with no risk of giving up a stall point. That's why as we prepare for Virginia Beach in two weeks we are really thinking about ways to catch the leg(s) coming in.
There is a very nice video recently put out by the Whatcom-Skagit Island Officials Association about stalling. It takes you through a couple of common stalling scenarios and provides tips on what to look for.
I know they are offering it to all the officials associations, so you could contact yours to inquire about getting a copy.
or perhaps someone on this board knows where to get one directly.
on 3/9/2010, 8:38 am