Posted by Graham Bullock on January 5, 2018, 5:49 pm
Year of Manufacture *: 2010 Engine Size and Code *: 2.0 ( Optional ) ECU Type: Bosch EDC 16 ( Optional) Fault Codes: P0089
Vauxhall Vivaro 2.0 MY2010 Bosch EDC 16CP33, M9R 780
Happy New Year to all.
Looking for a bit of advice please.
This vehicle was originally booked in due to EML illuminated. I collected vehicle and road tested, drove well except for EML warning light on.
Whilst at idle it suddenly hesitated and then stopped. It will now not start unless you pump the Manual fuel-priming pump continuously.
Retrieved around 21 fault codes and found most sensor and actuator wires have been pierced previously, obviously got some history! Cleared all codes and re-checked to find just two: -
P0380 Permanent – Glowplug circuit A malfunction. This was found to be No 1 glow plug dead short. This was replaced; code cleared and this now tests ok.
P0100 Permanent – MAF sensor circuit a malfunction. All associated wiring tested, fault found to be sensor internally open circuit. Replacement MAF fitted; code cleared and this now tests ok.
I didn’t consider either of these faults to be causing a failure to start but thought I would clear these away to eliminate.
After engine is started by pumping the priming pump continuously, it then stores P0089 – Fuel system pressure regulator 1 performance.
As far as I am aware this system only has the one low pressure transfer pump which is mounted on the back of the HP pump and it is a common problem for the shaft to fail between the two pumps. Removed the low-pressure pump to find the shaft and pump gears all ok. Re-fitted and checked the suction whilst cranking to find this increasing to 15inHg Vac after 5 seconds. Rail pressure sensor initially reads 0.502v and between 1.2v and 1.5v at idle, this varies as I squeeze and release the pump. Live data shows fuel pressure to climb when cranking (if I pump as well but not if I don’t) this rises to around 260 Bar prior to start and then to 350 – 380 at idle. When engine is turned off the fuel pressure decays to around 50 Bar within 5 seconds and down to 20 in around 10 seconds. Is this out of tolerance? Does seem low to me but what can cause this?
The engine will rev up but I can’t pump fast enough! Fuel filter has been changed and flow to and from the tank checked and clear. Fuel leak off is the same from all four injectors and didn’t reach the bottles after two minutes at idle. The leak off from the HP pump is around one litre during the same two minutes at idle, I must admit I have no idea what this should or shouldn’t be.
The pressure control valve on the HP pump varies between 6% and 65% when activated thru scan tool but only varies from 8% to 16% when trying to run engine. I read that if this has the plug disconnected it should force maximum pressure from the HP pump, so I assume this valve must be closed to prevent leak off back to the tank from the output side of the transfer pump and hence max pressure created. And open to allow leak off and low pressure. With this disconnected the pressure still only increases as it did when connected but engine will not start.
Talked to one diesel specialist and he said all pressures and suction was fine but another said he thought they were low. Neither had any other ideas.
So, can anybody with more experience than me give any advice on what else to test and how?
Some data I received said some systems have an electric in tank pump as well, can anybody confirm what this vehicle should have.
Again, some data shows two pressure control valves, one on the pump and one on the rail. This only appears to have the one on the pump, can’t find one on the rail.
The HP pump has a pressure release valve, can anybody tell me what symptoms you get if this fails.
Unfortunately, I can't give you vehicle specific data, but can you blank off the fuel rail to the injectors? (sealed injector pipes or proper union blanks). If you're having to prime the fuel system, that says the system is not capable of creating the fuel supply required. By blanking off the injectors you can see if the system is capable of building the fuel pressure or not. If it can, the injectors are leaking the fuel out of the tips, (not the return). If it's still incapable of building pressure you know it's a fuel supply, regulator or pump fault. At least then you can focus your diagnostic efforts.
Only come across this once, dealer diagnosed injectors.
customer had us remove and replace injectors at dealership (in south of France) vehicle ran exactly the same ie had to be hand primed to start and continuously to keep it running.
Tony L, The High-pressure pump appears to build the required pressure as rail actual pressure almost follows the desired (as long as I keep priming the system). I hope it is not the injectors as there is no way of locating where the retaining bolts or nuts are as every thing under that top cover looks like it has been in the sea for months.
Trevor, checked both fuel supply and return for restrictions and blanked them and the fuel filter to vac test and all good.
Lee, not one bubble in the fuel pipes so I assume it can’t be the swirl pot problem or it would be full of air after running.
Antony, If the low pressure pump was separate it would be easy to test, but with this I suppose if one can be supplied separate to HP pump then it may be worth a shot. I checked the suction from the low pressure pump whilst cranking to find this increasing to 15inHg Vac after 5 seconds but could this be partly suction from the HP pump, I’ve never actually tested how much an HP pump sucks.
I wish I had never seen this van, now the dash panel has gone blank
Lets start at beginning, you must understand how the common rail system works, you have a Bosch edc 16 system, probably a CP3 pump with L/P pump on back of H/P pump. there are 3 basic pressures you should be looking for. 1 - LOW PRESSURE. Generated by L/P pump in tank / chassis,[app 1 bar] if there is a manual primer there's NO L/P pump in tank / chassis and the low pressure is generated by the L/P pump on back of H/P pump,[suction] try running a clear plastic pipe directly into clean container. 2 - TRANSFER PRESSURE. Generated by L/P pump to supply constant pressure [app 5 bar] to H/P pump controlled by mechanical T/P regulator on front of H/P pump. 3 - HIGH PRESSURE. Generated mechanically by pistons in H/P pump but controlled by 1 or 2 regulators. The 1st H/P reg fitted on the H/P pump controls the amount of fuel entering the H/P pump, the more fuel that enters the H/P pump the higher the pressure, BE CAREFULL,this reg can be + or - control, [+ disconnect = opens,no pressure] [- disconnect = closes,high pressure, won't start as the pressure will be too high] The 2nd H/P reg for more accurate H/P control is fitted on rail beside return pipe, observe the amount of fuel in return pipe [no fuel at start up] fuel only at high revs. GOOD LUCK. John.
If it's the one I'm thinking of, it will have a low pressure pump on the back of the high pressure pump, the drive inside snaps and gives this exact problem, new HP pump required, not a bad job, done a few now.
several scanners have a high pressure fault finding routine listed for this engine in actuators or special/service functions. i've never used it personally, but not for any reason. i think some of these vivaro have an electric low pressure pump in-tank & a primer bulb, if you can see it & there's only 2 wires in the multiplug for the sender wiring & tank then it hasn't, if it's got 4 on both it has.
if the rail pressure relief valve has a leakoff pipe attached to it crank the engine with the injectors electrically disconnected, if you have fuel coming out of that pipe from the rail it's sticking & losing pressure.
have you done a cranking leakoff test on the injectors both hot & cold?
as for the shaft breaking in the hp pump, i've only personally seen that in the earlier 1.9 engine.
Steve, only two wires to the tank, so no in tank pump fitted. Hardly any leak of from injectors cold or warm, can’t find any rail pressure relief valve or leak off pipe from rail, only the pressure sensor.
Chris, I removed transfer pump from back of HP pump and shaft is intact. No bubbles at all in fuel lines or leak off pipes.
Antony, I agree with you, it sounds like I am doing the job of the transfer pump. When I removed the complete pump I can get over 0.5 bar of suction just by turning the pump by hand but obviously no way of checking the out put from the transfer pump. I did notice that with vac held on the inlet to the transfer pump as I turn the HP pump drive slowly there is one point every revolution when the vac is lost very quickly. I’ve ordered a new pump, which should be here tomorrow.
Thanks again for all your suggestions.
Graham
Re: Vauxhall Vivaro will not start
Posted by Neil Mellor on January 12, 2018, 9:01 am, in reply to "Re: Vauxhall Vivaro will not start" Edited by board administrator January 12, 2018, 1:08 pm
We had a Renault Trafic that had gone through deep water and kinked the feed pipe 45 degrees above the tank so strangling the feed.
Just something to check.
Fixed #
Posted by Graham Bullock on January 15, 2018, 8:18 pm, in reply to "Re: Vauxhall Vivaro will not start" Edited by board administrator January 23, 2018, 2:39 pm
New HP pump (with new transfer pump) fitted and it started first turn after bleeding system.
Starts and run like a good'un but suction on new pump is same as the old one and actual high pressures viewed on scan tool are the same as the old pump. The only difference is I don't have to pump the manual bleeder now.
Transfer pump pressure can be tested with adaptor in between the mprop and main pump body. Yes transfer pump pressure was incorrect I wuld have thought. You had vacuum produced by transfer pump so pump had to be turning, therefore shaft driving would have been ok, so really no need to remove and visually check
Cleared all codes and re-checked to find just two: - 
on January 6, 2018, 12:00 pm, in reply to "
