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Ford Fiesta 1.4 FJ6A 2003 - Non start with no injector pulse (waveform) #

Posted by Mark Robins on August 13, 2013, 2:59 pm

Year of Manufacture *: 2003
Engine Size and Code *: 1.4 (FJ6A ?)
( Optional ) ECU Type: Siemens
( Optional ) Scanner Used: Autocom
( Optional) Fault Codes: None

This is a non starter with no injector pulse, I've checked feeds and earths at the ECU, checked crank and cam comparisons which look wrong compared to the known good one on the Waveforms page. Checked cam-belt timing, keyways etc, etc. Replaced crank pulley magnetic reluctor and I still have this timing waveform issue. I am now wondering if Carls Fords Fiesta waveform is wrong and mine is OK??

Re: Ford Fiesta

Posted by Kevin Apps <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT2589' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on August 13, 2013, 3:32 pm, in reply to "Ford Fiesta"
Kevin Apps

Mark

What is live data telling you ?

Kev.

Re: Ford Fiesta

Posted by Carl Ford <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT1822' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on August 13, 2013, 8:03 pm, in reply to "Re: Ford Fiesta"

Hi Mark

I can assure you my known good is from a good running car I had in for injector work.

If you look at mine you can tell the engine is running as there is no volt drop across the 2 waveforms also if you look at the noise I'm sure you can see the injector pulses?

As Kevin has suggested what is live data telling you?

Carl

Re: Ford Fiesta

Posted by Mark Robins <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=ukat3563' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on August 13, 2013, 8:24 pm, in reply to "Re: Ford Fiesta"
Mark Robins

Live data with engine not running isn't telling me a lot, engine is not locked by immo but no rpm data is registered. I must have a cam/crank relationship problem but can not find anything on cam sprocket keyways or crank. I thought that may be the mag reluctor ring had possibly moved or been affected by a stray magnetic source as I had that problem with a Peugeot with the same engine. I now thought about the reluctor on the cam if that can move somehow, or is it cast into the cam? So I'll have a look tomorrow.

Thanks' for the input Gents.

Mark

Re: Ford Fiesta

Mark can you send me your psdata file for a nosey please

Thanks
Carl

cf_lincoln@yahoo.co.uk

Re: Ford Fiesta

Mark

"engine is not locked by immo but no rpm data is registered."
Are you saying no rpm in live data?

Kev.

Re: Ford Fiesta

Posted by Mark Carter <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT1428' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on August 13, 2013, 9:25 pm, in reply to "Re: Ford Fiesta"
Mark Carter

Hi Mark,

How is the ECU going to fire the Injector if it does not Know the engine is turning?

Don't worry about any "Sync" issues at present, disconnect the cam sensor and see if you have a engine speed signal when cranking.

Mark

Modern cars, Its all wizardry and witchcraft

Re: Ford Fiesta

Posted by Mark Robins <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=ukat3563' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on August 14, 2013, 8:16 am, in reply to "Re: Ford Fiesta"
Mark Robins

Yes Kevin no rpm indicated in live data when cranking, will try disconnecting cam sensor and report results Mark. I forgot to say that while cranking; the starter motor doesn't stay engaged for more than about 3 seconds until the fourth try, it sounds like it's being switched off! File are on their way Carl.

Many thanks.

Mark

Re: Ford Fiesta

Posted by Kevin Apps <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT2589' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on August 14, 2013, 10:00 am, in reply to "Re: Ford Fiesta"
Kevin Apps

Mark

"Yes Kevin no rpm indicated in live data when cranking"

A pretty important bit of info the ECU needs to see don,t you think ?

Scope the crank/cam at ECU ?
Kev.

Re: Ford Fiesta

Posted by Mar Robins <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=ukat3563' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on August 14, 2013, 3:23 pm, in reply to "Re: Ford Fiesta"

Hi Kevin,

Waveforms were all taken by back-probing the ECU. I had a similar fault on a 1.9 dci Megane, after scoping cam crank and confirming valve timing error we reset valve timing and the engine started, this also had no injector pulses; so the cam crank issue is the one that I think is most relevant at the moment.

Mark

Update: Crank data live is still 0rpm with Cam sensor disconnected.

Re: Ford Fiesta

Hi Mark

The sync is important you are correct but with no RPM in live data it becomes irrelevant as the ECU will need to see about 180-250RPM to trigger the injectors.

Carl

Re: Ford Fiesta

Posted by Mark Robins <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=ukat3563' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on August 15, 2013, 8:19 am, in reply to "Re: Ford Fiesta"
Mark Robins

Hi Carl,
Are you saying there should be RPM even with the cam/crank out of sync? So maybe a ECU issue?

Many Thanks

Mark

P.S. I'll try and post some live data while engine is cranking...

Re: Ford Fiesta

Modern cars, Its all wizardry and witchcraft

Re: Ford Fiesta 1.4 TDCi Cranking, not firing

Posted by Malcolm Probert <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=ukat3493' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on August 16, 2013, 8:10 pm, in reply to "Re: Ford Fiesta"
Malcolm Probert

The smart starting function will cut the starter when the PCM can see no hope of running!

Re: Ford Fiesta 1.4 TDCi Cranking, not firing

Posted by Tony Ludford <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT5539' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on August 17, 2013, 11:08 am, in reply to "Re: Ford Fiesta 1.4 TDCi Cranking, not firing"
Tony Ludford

Ironically, seen one of these yesterday, after having a cambelt replaced, it came to us as a non-start. No fault codes, and short crank time.
The cam sensor had a hairline crack in it (presumably, where the wiring has been pulled to allow removal of the upper timing cover).

Cam sensor replaced, and normal service resumed.

Re: Ford Fiesta 1.4 FJ6A 2003 - Non start with no injector pulse (waveform) #

Posted by Mark Robins <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=ukat3563' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on September 12, 2013, 9:32 am, in reply to "Ford Fiesta 1.4 FJ6A 2003 - Non start with no injector pulse (waveform) #"

Update
I have found out further info regarding the history of this car, it turns out that the car was fitted with a replacement engine and has never run since, the ECU was replaced with a S/H unit and coded in with VcmII and still the engine would not start, the original ECU was re-fitted, injectors have been changed with who knows what! A replacement wiring harness has been fitted. With some help from a mechanics guardian angel watching in on this thread I was pointed towards a similar problem with sync issue I had, which turned out to be the incorrect cam pulley for this ECU (begs the question where did this engine come from?). I ordered the correct pulley (part no: 1369676) and the cam crank sync pattern returned to normal plus the engine cranks continuously now, but, the engine still doesn’t start! The ECU was sent off to be tested and was found to have been over-voltaged somehow, this has been repaired and re-fitted and still it doesn’t start!!!! So watch this space

Mark Robins.

Re: Ford Fiesta 1.4 FJ6A 2003 - Non start with no injector pulse (waveform) #

Posted by Mark Robins <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=ukat3563' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on October 4, 2013, 4:37 pm, in reply to "Re: Ford Fiesta 1.4 FJ6A 2003 - Non start with no injector pulse (waveform) #"

I cannot believe this car, re-checked inputs to ECU and I have lost the crank sensor signal! After checking wiring etc. it turns out the crank position sensor has gone down for no particular reason aaargg! Replaced the crank sensor (signal OK)but still no start! Gone back over my tests only to find that rail pressure is non existent. disconnected the IMV still no pressure, it turns out after searching the archives this IMV defaults to closed position (no pressure) when disconnected, removed valve, bench tested it (OK), so replaced IMV and power probed it when cranking (still no pressure)! Removed pressure regulator on pump and bench tested it and eureka the valve is faulty!!! Question does this valve default to low pressure when disconnected? Both valves have been checked for PWM signal and are OK.

Re: Ford Fiesta 1.4 FJ6A 2003 - Non start with no injector pulse (waveform) #

Posted by Steve Shaw <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=ukat3627' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on October 5, 2013, 12:50 pm, in reply to "Re: Ford Fiesta 1.4 FJ6A 2003 - Non start with no injector pulse (waveform) #"
Steve Shaw

i've previously had an identical problem to this wiring etc. & all on a fiesta, spent most of the time repairing the "repairs" made to try to get it going by the guy who'd put the engine in, there's a choice of 3 cam sensors that fit to these,(also had the debris of 3 engines) when everything else was sorted we had no rail pressure, i checked the pump output directly using the delphi sealed rail kit, replaced the quantity adjuster?( round silver screw in component) on the pump (struggling to recall, it was last year) & had 1500 bar again, job done, what a nightmare cleaning up after someone else though!

Steve

Re: Ford Fiesta 1.4 FJ6A 2003 - Non start with no injector pulse (waveform) #

Posted by Mark Robins <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=ukat3563' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on October 9, 2013, 9:39 am, in reply to "Re: Ford Fiesta 1.4 FJ6A 2003 - Non start with no injector pulse (waveform) #"
Mark Robins

Hi Steve,

As in the previous post I checked the quantity adjuster (AKA the IMV) and it checked out OK, however, after removing the pressure control solenoid we found it to be faulty, so we replaced that and the engine has now started (hallelujah)!!! Only the starter has obviously had such a dogging it decided to pack up, I will never be so glad to see the back of a car as this one.
Thanks to everyone for their input and I hope my experience will be useful to others (in other words say NO to cars that have done the rounds!).

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