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Ford C-Max 1.6 TDCi 2004 - Non start, CAN issues - Unresolved #

Posted by Caig Hewison on March 13, 2013, 8:55 pm

Year of Manufacture *: 2004
Engine Size and Code *: 1.6 TDCi 110ps DV6
( Optional ) Scanner Used: IDS
( Optional) Fault Codes: No Coms

Reg: AD53PGF
VIN: WF0MXXGCDM4B80198
FORD FOCUS C-MAX 1.6TDCi 110ps DV6

Alright boys and girls

I have been passed a challenge and unfortunately it involves CAN Bus technology which is something i am not very clued up on, so i'm hoping somebody will be kind enough to offer assistance? pretty please!

Ok so this has done the rounds of other garages including dealerships before coming to me and the story goes like this:

Vehicle started as an intermittent cutting out/non-start; went into ford who diagnosed a faulty wiring loom at a cost of £3000!! The customer understandably said thank you but no thank you! The vehicle has now turned into a permanent non-start. He then went online and spoke to a ford tech on a forum who told him it would definitely be a faulty instrument cluster as he's done loads of them!! £500 later the customer owns a brand new genuine cluster and takes it to ford to have it fitted/coded; Ford say they cant do it as their computer will no longer communicate with the car! He then rings James Eardley who put him on to me as we have IDS! (Hi James! )

So my story goes thusly:

Plugged IDS in and it wont communicate with any control unit, just displays "cannot communicate with PCM" and asks me to input the part number etc from the PCM. Checked power and grounds to PCM and all are good! Have scoped CAN at DLC and got the following waveform:

Now even with my limited knowledge I can tell this is bad as the high and low are meant to mirror each other.

If I'm correct the first thing i should do is disconnect the different ECUs on the network and watch for the signal to correct. If i disconnect the PCM or ABS modulator whilst scoping the DLC there is no change to the waveform, if i disconnect the instrument cluster then both lines go dead. I would imagine that this is because the cluster has one of those terminator resistor things in it?? I tried the new cluster on the vehicle (uncoded obviously) and this did not change my corrupted CAN Hi!

I scoped the CAN at the PCM Both with the PCM connected and disconnected and got the following waveforms

Im not sure if i've got wiring diagram issues (autodata) as the CAN Low appears to be some sort of power supply and considering the DLC shows no CAN Low issues... this is coupled with the fact that i wanted to scope the CAN at the ABS but my diagram didn't match up to the multi plug on the vehicle!!

Hopefully that lot makes sense as CAN Bus is something i'm a bit nervous about, if anybody could provide me with some advice and guidance it will be greatly appreciated and also an accurate wiring diagram perhaps??

Hopefully i can learn something from this job!?!

Thanks
Craig

Re: Ford C-Max, Non-Start, CAN Issues

Posted by James McCallum <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=ukat5583' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 13, 2013, 9:36 pm, in reply to "Ford C-Max, Non-Start, CAN Issues"
James McCallum

Hi Craig, if you cannot communicate with any of the units then you probably have a gate way issue. This may be situated in the cluster on fords, Id have to check. Have you cheked the resistance between 6 and 14 at DLC? The system you need to check may not be fords equivalent of drivetrain. It might be the convenience. Ill try and speak to a friend I know at Ford and get an idea of system. HTH Jim

Re: Ford C-Max, Non-Start, CAN Issues

Posted by Ian Slattery <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT1196' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 13, 2013, 11:03 pm, in reply to "Re: Ford C-Max, Non-Start, CAN Issues"

Hi Caig

On the wiring issue do you have an etis account. For so much per hour you can print off the correct diagrams.

I know you have a can fault but have you tried this to get comms with the pcm. Those 1.6 have a issue on communicating.

Ford Focus 1.6 TDCi 2008 - DPF Fault # - James Rushforth November 3, 2011, 5:18 pm

Re: Ford Focus 1.6 TDCi 2008 - DPF Fault # - ian slattery February 1, 2012, 9:35 pm

Regards Ian

ps it does't seem to come up in the search but its about 3 pages back in this forum.

Re: Ford C-Max, Non-Start, CAN Issues

Posted by Craig Hewison <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=ukat3409' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 14, 2013, 12:39 pm, in reply to "Re: Ford C-Max, Non-Start, CAN Issues"

Thanks guys,

I have measured the restance at DLC with ignition off and everything plugged in, I got 121 ohms so am I right in thinking one of the terminating resistors may be down? I have downloaded the correct wiring diagrams from ETIS and will check the wiring resistance etc ASAP. Is there any way of telling where the resistors are located?

Thanks
Craig

Re: Ford C-Max, Non-Start, CAN Issues

Posted by James McCallum <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=ukat5583' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 14, 2013, 12:47 pm, in reply to "Re: Ford C-Max, Non-Start, CAN Issues"
James McCallum

Hi Craig, yes if 121ohms. Even decentralised resistors normally add up to about 60 ohms. They are usually either PCM and gateway, or pcm and abs control, but it would depend on manufacturer. Should tell you on information site.
HTH James

Re: Ford C-Max, Non-Start, CAN Issues

Posted by Craig Hewison <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=ukat3409' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 16, 2013, 5:41 pm, in reply to "Re: Ford C-Max, Non-Start, CAN Issues"

Ok so I had a good run at this today and I found a bad contact in one of the multiplugs in the passenger footwell, rescoped can and it looks good to my untrained eyes!

We still couldn't communicate with the car though so I manually entered the PCM part number etc as requested which got me into the system! A network test reveals commas with all control units except instrument cluster and PCM. What intreages me is there were faults codes everywhere for various voltage faults, both high and low, so I'm suspecting the vehicle has been jump started at some point!?! There was also a number of CAN related DTCs but everything cleared off fine! Car still won't crank btw!

I tried to install the new cluster just to see but it wouldn't allow me as it was saying the PCM needed initialising, when I try to do this it fails and I get the message "error code: 303 - 0x0 851082". Whatever the eff that means! I rechecked PCM powers and grounds, all good, and now the network is online I can only assume that we have a faulty PCM that I assume is a result of jump starting! Will speak to the customer about this! Oh and the dash says "engine system fault"

I'll speak to the customer on Monday and see what he wants to do but I doubt if he'll want to go to the expense as he's already blown a small fortune on it, fingers crossed though eh as I'd really like to see this one through!

Thanks for everybodys help it has been greatly appreciated and I have learnt a bit about CANbus too!

Thanks
Craig

Re: Ford C-Max, Non-Start, CAN Issues

Posted by James Eardley <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=ukat3143' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 17, 2013, 12:02 pm, in reply to "Re: Ford C-Max, Non-Start, CAN Issues"

Hi Craig

I have only just seen this post

sorry pal.... it sounds like I have stiched you right up here LOL

Reading through the post I was sure if you sorted the CAN signal issue out it would have been a fix.

I told you it wouldn't be a good idea to take this job on after your stag doo! LOL
Hope you had a good one

James

Re: Ford C-Max, Non-Start, CAN Issues

Posted by Craig Hewison <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=ukat3409' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 17, 2013, 7:48 pm, in reply to "Re: Ford C-Max, Non-Start, CAN Issues"

Hey up pal,

Yeah was awesome pal, ended up in krakow poland!!! Best weekend ever!

No need to be sorry mate I love a challenge and it was a good opportunity to play with canbus! I was a lil disappointed that can issue didn't fix it but as u know every Tom, dick n Harry's had their hands in this bugger! Hopefully he'll go for a new PCM and we can finish it! Assuming my diagnosis is correct of course

lol

Thanks
Craig

Re: Ford C-Max, Non-Start, CAN Issues

Posted by Tony Ludford <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT5539' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 17, 2013, 8:31 pm, in reply to "Re: Ford C-Max, Non-Start, CAN Issues"
Tony Ludford

Just a thought, have you tried reprogramming the PCM. I've seen one of these loose their RAM memory if the battery goes flat.

Re: Ford C-Max, Non-Start, CAN Issues

Posted by Craig Hewison <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=ukat3409' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 17, 2013, 10:02 pm, in reply to "Re: Ford C-Max, Non-Start, CAN Issues"

Hi tony,

yeah I tried reprogramming the module and installing a new module and got the same error message for both procedures!

Thanks
Craig

Re: Ford C-Max, Non-Start, CAN Issues

Posted by Craig Hew <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=ukat3409' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 10, 2013, 6:22 pm, in reply to "Re: Ford C-Max, Non-Start, CAN Issues"

Quick update for ya on this one, sorry for the delay but the customer has been trying to source a second hand PCM.

He sent his PCM away to be repaired, the company he used said it was a common fault and has fixed it. So today i fitted it and tried it, the vehicle does indeed now crank and for a couple of seconds tries to start before injectors get switched off?? (confirmed this with a test light whilst cranking). still got no comms with either PCM or Instrument cluster though! rechecked all the wiring and is still good. With new cluster fitted it wont crank as its obviously not coded, won't code because PCM not installed and cant install PCM due to the error mentioned previously! Basically, its exactly the same but it now cranks and, for a few seconds, squirts!?!? ps loads of fuel from filter!!

Thanks
Craig

Re: Ford C-Max 1.6 TDCi 2004 - Non start, CAN issues #

Posted by Darren Cotton <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT1876' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 11, 2013, 9:06 pm, in reply to "Ford C-Max 1.6 TDCi 2004 - Non start, CAN issues #"
Darren Cotton

Graig, so whats the CAN signal like now on scope? What resistance do you have after your ECU Repair on CAN?

Have your entered the numbers off the ECU in Manually on IDS?

Darren

Ongoing #

Posted by Craig Hewison on May 26, 2013, 6:38 pm, in reply to "Re: Ford C-Max 1.6 TDCi 2004 - Non start, CAN issues #"
Edited by board administrator May 29, 2013, 11:41 am

Sorry for the late reply, I've been away on holiday for the last 2 weeks!

Resistance is 60ohms but this value was achieved after the wiring repair and it hasn't changed since then. The CAN signal is symetrical now too, this is also a result of the wiring connector though! I can scope it for you again on Tuesday if it will help for you to see it??

Yes I entered the details off the PCM manually, this was the only way I could get sort of comms with vehicle at all!

Hth
Craig

Re: Ongoing #

Posted by Trevor Kelleher <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=ukat3499' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on June 1, 2013, 2:43 pm, in reply to "Ongoing #"
Trevor Kelleher

Its just a taught Craig.

But have you checked the 12v and 5v supplies to the sensors around the engine bay?i have seen sensors and wiring shorting out these voltage supplies which in turn prevents the pcm from operating and thus preventing you from talking to it!

Unresolved #

Posted by Craig Hewison on June 27, 2013, 6:58 am, in reply to "Re: Ongoing #"
Edited by board administrator June 27, 2013, 8:34 am

Hi trevor, no i cant say that i did check that. unfortunately the customer decided he didn't want to invest anymore time or money into this one and is sticking it on eBay as spares or repairs but I will bear it in mind for the future!

Thanks for all your assistance, it's a shame we won't get to see an end result!

Thanks
Craig

Re: Unresolved #

Posted by Matt Seabrook <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=ukat3462' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on June 30, 2013, 9:30 am, in reply to "Unresolved #"
Matt Seabrook

It's always a shame when you cant see the problem through to a conclusion but understandable from a customers perspective. We are starting to see quite a lot of major problems due to jump stating cars. We had a 307 in recently with a blown BSI unit and ECU dead. It has written the car off due to the cost.

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