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Renault Master 2.5 2007 - High rail pressure - Fixed #

Posted by Glen Strachan on February 10, 2013, 10:38 am

Year of Manufacture *: 2007
Engine Size and Code *: 2.5
( Optional ) Scanner Used: kts / clip

There is a bit of a story with this one.
It arrived at my place having been off the road now for over 3 months. It has been to several other garages including the main dealer who have changed the Crank sensor, EGR valve, ECU, all 4 injectors a fuel rail and the fuel pump

It starts on the button and idles OK with no smoke or noises other than a bit of diesel knock. As you raise the rpm it gets to about 1500 and cuts out. If you bring it up slowly it falters at 1500 before dying . Giving a rail pressure limit exceeded code.

Checking rail pressure it is at 100-120 MPA at idle and gets to 180 MPA as it revs before cutting out.
Looking at the fuel rail , it leaks off as the pressure raises.
I immediately thought it may be the earlier pump fitted with the opposing pressure regulator, so as I had one in stock I tried swapping that but seem to have made it worse. With the other pressure regulator on I get 120MPA on cranking and it wont start. So Monday I will go back to the original.
Could this be a problem with the fuel ?
Does anyone know what the pwm should be as I guess my next move should be scope the pressure regulator

Re: Renault Master - high rail pressure

Posted by martin simonsohn <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=ukat3223' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on February 10, 2013, 11:54 am, in reply to "Renault Master - high rail pressure"
Martin Simonsohn

hi might be a little more help if you can post engine code
wonder if the fuel isn't getting back to the tank from the return might be a kinked pipe on the return.
could also be worth checking 3rd piston wiring.
as well as fuel pressure sensor wiring IE supply ground etc. Don't suppose its over charging from alternator or the fuel pressure sensor wiring is short to supply.
my only other thought would be mass air giving an incorrect reading there for not using fuel for engine speed. hope this makes some kind of sense.
question mpa??? not another conversion required to make sense of pressure why cant they find a common measurement and stick to it

Re: Renault Master - high rail pressure

Posted by Glen Strachan <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=ukat1463' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on February 10, 2013, 3:18 pm, in reply to "Re: Renault Master - high rail pressure"

Thanks Martin, I have tried it with the return removed from the back of the pump.

I haven't had a gauge on the rail to confirm the pressure, but the fact the pressure relief on the rail is leaking off I suspect it is very high.

Has anyone seen a common rail with veg oil in it ? The more I think about it I wonder if a thicker/waxier fuel could explain the high pressure.

Re: Renault Master - high rail pressure

Posted by Mark Carter <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT1428' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on February 10, 2013, 9:12 pm, in reply to "Re: Renault Master - high rail pressure"

What system is the vehicle running?

>>> question mpa??? not another conversion required to make sense of pressure<<<

>>> why cant they find a common measurement and stick to it <<<

They have its called the Pascal (Pa) its the SI derived unit of pressure.

Common multiple units of the pascal are;

The hectopascal (1 hPa = 100 Pa)

The kilopascal (1 kPa = 1000 Pa)

The megapascal (1 MPa = 1,000,000 Pa)

The gigapascal (1 GPa = 1,000,000,000 Pa).

There are 100,000 pascals to a Bar.

HTH

Mark

Modern cars, Its all wizardry and witchcraft

Re: Renault Master - high rail pressure

Posted by ukat1463 <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=ukat1463' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on February 10, 2013, 11:46 pm, in reply to "Re: Renault Master - high rail pressure"
Glen Strachan

What system is the vehicle running?

Its Bosch

Re: Renault Master - high rail pressure

Posted by Kevin Apps <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT2589' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on February 11, 2013, 1:10 am, in reply to "Re: Renault Master - high rail pressure"
Kevin Apps

Glen

I suspect Mark was expecting a more detailed discription, like EDC ? ??

Bare in mind Mark is a bosch training course instructor so he knows what questions to ask.

Kev.

Re: Renault Master - high rail pressure

Posted by Glen Strachan <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=ukat1463' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on February 11, 2013, 9:51 am, in reply to "Re: Renault Master - high rail pressure"

My apologies
EDC16 C36 according to Clip.
KTS won't go in cleanly for some reason - it gives message saying control unit not identified basic only

The number on the pump is 0445010140
The FP regulator that I fitted is 0928 400 743 but this made it worse ( 1200 bar as it was trying to fire ) so I have put the other one back on but there are no numbers on that one.

Re: Renault Master - high rail pressure

Posted by Glen Strachan <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=ukat1463' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on February 11, 2013, 10:58 am, in reply to "Re: Renault Master - high rail pressure"
Glen Strachan

Bit of progress.
I have refitted the original regulator and with Clip, changed the regulator to "type 1", reset parameters and confirmed injector codes and now the rail pressure seems normal.
If I run it without the air mass all seems good, so I have ordered a new air mass meter and will report back

Re: Renault Master 2.5 2007 - High rail pressure #

Posted by Tony Attwood <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=ukat3025' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on February 11, 2013, 11:05 am, in reply to "Renault Master 2.5 2007 - High rail pressure #"

Hi Glen,

Cant believe you only have 'a bit of diesel knock' with 1200 to 1800 bar pressure at idle to 1500 rpm !!

What is air mass reading.
Regards, Tony.

Edit:

Oooops, just read latest post!!!!
Must learn to type faster

Re: Renault Master 2.5 2007 - High rail pressure #

Posted by Mark Carter <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT1428' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on February 11, 2013, 12:51 pm, in reply to "Re: Renault Master 2.5 2007 - High rail pressure #"
Mark Carter

>>> If I run it without the air mass all seems good, so I have ordered a new air mass meter and will report back <<<

How does the running of the engine change with / without the AMM being fitted?

Mark

Modern cars, Its all wizardry and witchcraft

Re: Renault Master 2.5 2007 - High rail pressure #

Posted by Glen Strachan <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=ukat1463' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on February 11, 2013, 1:03 pm, in reply to "Re: Renault Master 2.5 2007 - High rail pressure #"

Now the fuel pressure is OK, with the air mass disconnected it revs up cleanly, with it connected I get little or no throttle response or it is slow to rev up.

Re: Renault Master 2.5 2007 - High rail pressure #

Posted by martin simonsohn <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=ukat3223' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on February 11, 2013, 2:56 pm, in reply to "Re: Renault Master 2.5 2007 - High rail pressure #"
Martin Simonsohn

i have had issues with amm on vauxhal but found low output from it confirmed with sensor simulate and new fitted and tested OK again wouldn't rev and fuel pressure was high.
foxed me a little for a while unless the pressure is high with amm giving low signal fuel not being used but being generated by pump speed.
last bit was only a thought...

Fixed #

Posted by Glen Strachan on February 11, 2013, 5:17 pm, in reply to "Re: Renault Master 2.5 2007 - High rail pressure #"
Edited by board administrator February 13, 2013, 7:19 pm

New air mass meter fitted and it goes like a rocket

Thanks for all your input.

I am pretty sure that this was sorted by a parameter reset using Clip. Still cant figure out why KTS wasn't happy, and I think the air mass was just causing the lazy pick up, but now its fixed I don't want to put the old air mass back on to replicate the fault.

Now onto the next Ren Master - This one has low rail pressure ( sob )

Re: Fixed #

Posted by Mark Carter on February 11, 2013, 9:12 pm, in reply to "Re: Renault Master 2.5 2007 - High rail pressure FIXED#"
Edited by board administrator February 13, 2013, 7:20 pm

>>> I think the air mass was just causing the lazy pick up, but now its fixed I don't want to put the old air mass back on to replicate the fault.<<<

You are probably on the money in the fact that a dead AMM can lower the maximum fuel allowed into the cylinder.

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