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Fiat Ducato 2.3 JTD 2005 - Non start with no rail pressure - Fixed #

Posted by Peter Rainsley on February 21, 2012, 10:32 pm

Year of Manufacture *: 2005
Engine Size and Code *: 2.3 JTD
( Optional ) Scanner Used: Autocom
( Optional) Fault Codes: P0191

Camper is a non-starter with no rail pressure on crank, i.e. a nominal 9 bar. I have checked pump supply pressure at 0.6 bar. Autodata, Kis and Tolerance only give a figure for the 2.0 and 2.8, and that is 2.5 bar. After my recent experiences with tank supplies, see Passat below, dare I assume that I am looking for that pressure on this system? Is now the time to invest in Esi?
TIA,
Peter

Re: Fiat Ducato

Posted by martin simonsohn <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=ukat3223' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on February 22, 2012, 12:26 pm, in reply to "Fiat Ducato "
Martin Simonsohn

hi peter i have had problems with low pressure pumps om this mmodel but that was an intermittent non start and cutting out it did turn out to be the pump
hth martin

Re: Fiat Ducato

Posted by Alan Lange <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=ukat3293' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on February 22, 2012, 8:35 pm, in reply to "Re: Fiat Ducato "
Alan Lange

Hello Peter, Just had a quick search on the net & found low pressure should be 3.5 - 5.0 bar. There should be less than 0.8 bar on the return line. The pump should run for 10 seconds. Can you rig up a seperate fuel supply to gravity feed the h/p pump?

Re: Fiat Ducato

Posted by Mark Cater <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT1428' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on February 22, 2012, 9:22 pm, in reply to "Re: Fiat Ducato "
Mark Carter

Hi Peter,

What diesel system is this vehicle running?

If its Bosch CP1 the gravity feed idea will not work.

Mark

Modern cars, Its all wizardry and witchcraft

Re: Fiat Ducato

I wasn't aware of that Mark, I've just been reading up on this system. It looks like it needs 0.8 bar to open a valve in the h/p pump for the fuel to pass to high pressure stage. (Am I right?) If that's right it would explain why Peter's won't start with 0.6 bar.

Re: Fiat Ducato

Posted by Peter Rainsley <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT5418' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on February 22, 2012, 10:43 pm, in reply to "Re: Fiat Ducato "
Peter Rainsley

Evening Mark and Alan,
you've hit on the problem I often have of identifying the system on which I am working. In the absence of clear engine codes/ecu labels/and pump types, I often resort to data bases. This particular system obviously has a pump pressure feed, the pump 'scoped poor on current, and the pressure appeared low. No figures given in any of the data bases to which I have access, hence the comment about Esi. Alan obviously has better search skills on the net than me, and I am beginning to believe that Mark just knows.
Once again, thanks for both your inputs,
Peter

Re: Fiat Ducato

Posted by Mark Carter <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT1428' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on February 22, 2012, 11:01 pm, in reply to "Re: Fiat Ducato "

Alan, yes thats right (if its CP1) but its a differential pressure of 0.8 Bar. Referenced from the cam box pressure.

Peter, can you take a photo of the pump and post?

You have a PM.

Mark

Modern cars, Its all wizardry and witchcraft

Re: Fiat Ducato

Posted by Peter Rainsley <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT5418' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on February 24, 2012, 10:05 am, in reply to "Re: Fiat Ducato "
Peter Rainsley

Mark,
I won't get back to this until after the week-end. Pump was hidden somewhere down under a manifold visible with a torch and a mirror! I will do my best to get details/photo of it. I must pay more attention to information gathering,though I take copious notes on problem vehicles, and later realise they don't answer the questions I then want to ask,
Peter

Fixed #

Posted by Peter Rainsley on March 13, 2012, 7:49 pm, in reply to "Re: Fiat Ducato "
Message modified by board administrator March 14, 2012, 4:29 pm

With Mark's help I identified the pump as CP3 with the optional suction/pressure supply pump in tandem on the rear. The in-tank pump is to supplement the suction head, this being a commercial application with a greater height than normal between tank and pump. Measuring vacuum at the pump inlet gave no reading. Undoing the four torx screws to remove the supply pump showed the drive spigot sheared, as Mark had predicted

,
thanks Mark,
Peter

Re: Fixed #

Posted by Kevin Apps on March 13, 2012, 8:47 pm, in reply to "Re: Fiat Ducato FIX!"
Message modified by board administrator March 14, 2012, 4:29 pm

Peter.

"Undoing the four torx screws to remove the supply pump showed the drive spigot sheared, as Mark had predicted"

Mark is held in high regard, but the drive shearing is well documented.

Kev.

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