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Citroen Dispatch 1.9D 2003 - Loud diesel knock on cold start, codes P0170 & P1608 #

Posted by Paul Howd on February 17, 2012, 7:10 pm

Year of Manufacture *: 53
Engine Size and Code *: 1.9D (Lucas pump)
( Optional ) Scanner Used: Multiscan
( Optional) Fault Codes: P0170 P1608

As above. This vehicle has a "History" Without going into too much detail (I will if requested) it is likely that the pump timing has been interfererd with (Bodged) to improve a poor running problem and may have been slightly over advanced, (hence the cold knock, though it is fine warm, indeed it seems fine after only 60 seconds running)

My question however is what exactly do the above fault codes refer too!

"Naughtodata" suggests that "P0170" relates to "Fuel Trim" and has no listings at all for "P1608" (Or indeed any P1 codes)

The multiscan relates "P0170" to an issue involving injection advance (which at least makes sense given the history) but describes the "P1608" code as "Undefined"

Now, My plan for now is to remove the timing covers check/replace the timing belt (needs doing anyway) and see where I go from there. But, in the mean time It would be helpful if somebody could give me a more definative description of these fault codes!

Just in case there are other issues I need to consider before I start!

Re: Citroen Dispatch-Loud Diesel knock on cold start

Posted by Kevin Apps <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT2589' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on February 17, 2012, 10:13 pm, in reply to "Citroen Dispatch-Loud Diesel knock on cold start"

Paul

My Data say,s P0170 as fuel trim malfunction, so be careful blaming Auto-data and not multiscan!!

My data also shows P1608 as water temp warning light circuit.

Well it does if this is engine code WJY with Lucas DCN2, as P1 codes can be engine specific.

It would be best to get it on Lexia

Kev.

Re: Citroen Dispatch-Loud Diesel knock on cold start

Posted by Paul Howd on February 18, 2012, 8:56 am, in reply to "Re: Citroen Dispatch-Loud Diesel knock on cold start"
Message modified by board administrator February 20, 2012, 4:04 pm

Fuel trim malfunction, on a mechanical diesel pump??

This system appears to be essentially a mechanical injection pump with electronic controll of the advance for cold starting etc, there is a crank sensor and some wiring on the pump, but the fueling is still controlled by a throttle cable I am not sure if there is a feedback sensor from one of the injectors, I didnt look but will next time i see it.

Back to Atodata, (#) not only is there a lack of info on the codes, there is also no info on componant locations, wiring or pin data! T

This is Not exactly an exoticar, it is popular early "Noughties" light commercial vehicle! There is no excuse for full data not being available!

(# That was a typo, but its actually quite funny so I will leave it be!

)

Re: Citroen Dispatch-Loud Diesel knock on cold start

Posted by Kevin Apps <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT2589' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on February 18, 2012, 7:11 pm, in reply to "Citroen Dispatch-Loud Diesel knock on cold start"
Kevin Apps

Paul
"Naughtodata" suggests that "P0170" relates to "Fuel Trim"

Paul that is because that IS the correct code description, no matter where you look.

The fact that P1608 is undefined on multiscan shows multiscan is not as good as it could be.

A code read with Lexia will sort the codes out.

What is the engine code ?

Kev.

Re: Citroen Dispatch-Loud Diesel knock on cold start

Posted by Paul Howd on February 19, 2012, 10:54 am, in reply to "Re: Citroen Dispatch-Loud Diesel knock on cold start"
Message modified by board administrator February 20, 2012, 4:04 pm

However, I do find it interesting that the "Multiscan" interpretaion of the P0170 seems credible given the history.

As for the P1608, My main gripe here isnt with multiscan, Its with Autodata! As I said, the Citroen is not in any way an unusual vehicle, Failing to provide this data is an outrage!

As it stands, I am reasonably happy from your responses that there are no deeper mysteries on this vehicle. I will report further once I have completed the work already outlined (which I wont be doing for a week or two)

Cheers

Re: Citroen Dispatch-Loud Diesel knock on cold start

Posted by martin simonsohn <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=ukat3223' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on February 19, 2012, 12:02 pm, in reply to "Re: Citroen Dispatch-Loud Diesel knock on cold start"
Martin Simonsohn

hi paul knock when cold could be a temp sensor wrong/incorrect reading for COLD start but could also be down to a pump timing solenoid not operating.
i know about your frustration about AD though i don't think any of the data programs cover requirements. have had much bum data from auto data the last was a passat with wast-gate position sensor and fault code definition :-(

Re: Citroen Dispatch-Loud Diesel knock on cold start

Posted by Kevin Apps <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT2589' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on February 19, 2012, 1:02 pm, in reply to "Re: Citroen Dispatch-Loud Diesel knock on cold start"
Kevin Apps

Paul
"multisca relates "P0170" to an issue involving injection advance "

I think you are missing my point, perhaps Multiscan discription is correct but wrong code for which you should be annoyed with multiscan.

This is why i would get it on Lexia.

I also get annoyed with Auto-data,tolerance and vivid when the info is not there, but after a quick phone call to AD, they normally come up with some useful info.

Kev.

Re: Citroen Dispatch-Loud Diesel knock on cold start

Posted by matthew ladds <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=ukat3392' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on February 19, 2012, 9:18 pm, in reply to "Re: Citroen Dispatch-Loud Diesel knock on cold start"

i have been here before with the exact same fault

i even bodged the timing on the injector pump to make it sound better which resulted in the same code as you have.

to put a long story short the wjy is fitted with i think about 3 diffrent fly wheels depending on crank sensor location on gear box

you need the right flywheel for your car. on my berlingo i actually worked out that i needed to move the crank sensor pick up pegs three teeth each on the fly wheel. i refitted it repinned the timing and job done (six months later)

hope this helps

matthew ladds

Re: Citroen Dispatch-Loud Diesel knock on cold start

Posted by Ian slattery <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT1196' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on February 19, 2012, 10:23 pm, in reply to "Re: Citroen Dispatch-Loud Diesel knock on cold start"
Ian Slattery

Hi Paul

Kevin is right about them codes.

Martins suggestions on the timing device is very common.
You can usually hear it clicking a dozen times when you switch the ign on from cold.

If its not clicking i check the resistance across the wired injector, before replacing the timing solenoid.
It normal comes up with a code. The code description might be right but not the code.hth.

regards Ian.

Re: Citroen Dispatch-Loud Diesel knock on cold start

Posted by Paul Howd on February 20, 2012, 12:23 pm, in reply to "Re: Citroen Dispatch-Loud Diesel knock on cold start"
Message modified by board administrator February 20, 2012, 4:04 pm

Ahha! Very interesting! I understand that this HAS had a new flywheel!

IS there a way of telling where the pick up should be positioned relative to the flywheel or is it just trial and error?

In any case, I will have to return it to "Basic settings" before I can do anything else so I am still on for the timing belt change.

Re: Citroen Dispatch-Loud Diesel knock on cold start

Posted by Matthew Ladd on February 20, 2012, 7:07 pm, in reply to "Re: Citroen Dispatch-Loud Diesel knock on cold start"
Message modified by board administrator February 23, 2012, 3:01 pm

when i said i moved the pick up points i meant on the flywheel.

the crank sensor is located on top of the gearbox and can not be moved.

The bellhousing where the sensor bolts in is in a slightly diffrent position depending on year/model needless to say you need the right flywheel to suit.

The pick up points for the sensor are pegs that are fitted in to the flywheel it's self.(ideally it should have had a new flywheel but the customer had no money)

Regarding checking its got the right flywheel fitted try this

Lock engine at TDC with pin through fly wheel
Remove crank sensor
Remove flywheel cover on bottom of gear box so you can see the back of the flywheel and ring gear teeth
Tipex 1 ring gear tooth against the box
Remove timing pin
Turn engine round slowly clock wise until you see a peg in the middle of crank sensor hole
Now send car back up and look at your mark on ring gear
If the correct flywheel is fitted you will have moved the engine 3 1/2 ring gear tooth's
If the wrong fly wheel is fitted it will be 7 teeth
Luckily to work this out i had another berligo in which i used as a reference

needless to say as previously mentioned first you need to
correct timing
test injector for resistance
make sure the timing solenoid clicks fast when turned on from cold ( it won't do it every time ignition is switched on but when left for a while it should)

matt

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