Diesel Diagnostics

Back to Forum

Post a Response

Ford Focus 1.6 TDCi 2005 - Runs but cuts out under load - Fixed #

Posted by Peter Doughty on October 18, 2011, 4:43 pm

Year of Manufacture *: 2005
Engine Size and Code *: 1600
( Optional ) Scanner Used: modis/Super Scan
( Optional) Fault Codes: P0087

This vehicle was bought from the local auction with this fault so no history. The customer has fitted injectors,fuel filter and fuel pump, blown out the lines between the tank and filter.
The vehicle will start every time but not always run smoothly, no smoke or diesel knock. The rail pressure is 290 to 310 bars at idle and will rise to between 700 and 900 when accelerator is pressed. I have run the vehicle off an independant fuel supply but the symtom is still there. I've scoped the inlet metering valve and I see the command for more fuel (sometimes) when the pedal is pressed. Sometimes the signal does not change and this coincides with the stalling. If I graph live data (rail pressure) and scope (inlet metering valve PWM signal)at the same time I can see the falling rail pressure and the no change in the PWM signal to the inlet metering valve.
I think I'm in the right area but I can't think what can be commanding the shut off of fuel.

Any thoughts and input would be appreciated.

Re: Ford Focus tdci runs but cuts out under load

Posted by Piotr Sokolowski <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT1848' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on October 18, 2011, 9:29 pm, in reply to "Ford Focus tdci runs but cuts out under load "

first thing I would try genuine fuel filter

Link: http://www.pandpauto.eu

Re: Ford Focus tdci runs but cuts out under load

Posted by Alan Lange <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=ukat3293' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on October 18, 2011, 10:01 pm, in reply to "Ford Focus tdci runs but cuts out under load "
Alan Lange

Hello Peter, I'd be thinking along the lines of over-boosting.

Re: Ford Focus tdci runs but cuts out under load

Posted by Kevin Apps <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT2589' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on October 18, 2011, 10:06 pm, in reply to "Re: Ford Focus tdci runs but cuts out under load "
Kevin Apps

Peter.
Filter, or canister ? Do you know if the injectors and pump etc were all changed at the same time?
Kev.

Re: Ford Focus tdci runs but cuts out under load

Posted by Peter Doughty on October 19, 2011, 10:39 am, in reply to "Re: Ford Focus tdci runs but cuts out under load "
Message modified by board administrator October 19, 2011, 3:10 pm

Kevin
The pump was changed first along with the filter canister, there was no change and then the injectors were changed.
Alan I've looked at the boost and its not over boosting.

Re: Ford Focus 1.6 TDCi 2005 - Runs but cuts out under load #

Posted by Roy Ritchie on October 19, 2011, 9:55 pm, in reply to "Ford Focus 1.6 TDCi 2005 - Runs but cuts out under load #"
Message modified by board administrator October 21, 2011, 1:59 pm

I agree with Piotr genuine fuel filter first.

Re: Ford Focus 1.6 TDCi 2005 - Runs but cuts out under load #

Posted by James McCallum <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=ukat5583' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on October 23, 2011, 10:27 am, in reply to "Ford Focus 1.6 TDCi 2005 - Runs but cuts out under load #"
James McCallum

Hi, Is it bosch or delphi? If Bosch, 1,2,or 3?
There may be a prssure valve in teh rail, I have read on this site, it caused problems for someone else. If you can let me know what system fitted I can try and find more info for you.
HTH
Jim

Re: Ford Focus 1.6 TDCi 2005 - Runs but cuts out under load #

Posted by Peter Doughty on October 23, 2011, 12:27 pm, in reply to "Re: Ford Focus 1.6 TDCi 2005 - Runs but cuts out under load #"
Message modified by board administrator October 25, 2011, 12:34 pm

Hi James
it s a Bosch cph1 system, there is not a reg in the rail but there is a pressure sensor.

Re: Ford Focus 1.6 TDCi 2005 - Runs but cuts out under load #

Posted by Mark Carter <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT1428' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on October 23, 2011, 5:43 pm, in reply to "Re: Ford Focus 1.6 TDCi 2005 - Runs but cuts out under load #"
Mark Carter

With all due respect are we testing anything or just throwing parts at it.

>>> The pump was changed first along with the filter canister, there was no change and then the injectors were changed <<<

The Bosch CP 1 system does not have an "Inlet metering Valve", it uses a pressure regulating valve which works completely differently from an IMV.

Regards Mark

Modern cars, Its all wizardry and witchcraft

Re: Ford Focus 1.6 TDCi 2005 - Runs but cuts out under load #

Posted by Piotr Sokolowski <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT1848' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on October 23, 2011, 7:18 pm, in reply to "Re: Ford Focus 1.6 TDCi 2005 - Runs but cuts out under load #"

I should stay away from this thread but: are you sure this is cp1?

hello Mark

Re: Ford Focus 1.6 TDCi 2005 - Runs but cuts out under load #

Posted by Peter Doughty on October 23, 2011, 7:50 pm, in reply to "Re: Ford Focus 1.6 TDCi 2005 - Runs but cuts out under load #"
Message modified by board administrator October 25, 2011, 12:34 pm

OK guys.
First of all I'm using the Ford etis as a reference as to the type of system and from that I think it is a cph1 system.
Why stay away Piotr?
Mark I've not seen a system with out an inlet metering valve. Either way I would have thought they would be both PWM signals but I've wrong in the past and I suspect I will be wrong in the future so please enlighten me.

Thanks

Pete

Re: Ford Focus 1.6 TDCi 2005 - Runs but cuts out under load #

Posted by Piotr Sokolowski <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT1848' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on October 23, 2011, 8:24 pm, in reply to "Re: Ford Focus 1.6 TDCi 2005 - Runs but cuts out under load #"

'Mark I've not seen a system with out an inlet metering valve'
ok
as far as I know on the cp1 there is no inlet metering valve. If you are sure there is cp1 there would be pressure regulator.
One question . Can you check physically (not by the tis) is there fuel pump in the tank?

Re: Ford Focus 1.6 TDCi 2005 - Runs but cuts out under load #

Posted by Mark Carter <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT1428' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on October 23, 2011, 9:46 pm, in reply to "Re: Ford Focus 1.6 TDCi 2005 - Runs but cuts out under load #"

Hi Pete,

We need to know what system is fitted and then we can work out how the pressure is generated and then controlled.

Can you take any photos of the setup or get any part numbers?

I will quite happily explain what the difference in the two are but first lets work out the system that you are faced with.

Has any testing been done or have parts just been fitted?

Regards Mark

Modern cars, Its all wizardry and witchcraft

Re: Ford Focus 1.6 TDCi 2005 - Runs but cuts out under load #

Posted by Peter Doughty on October 23, 2011, 10:41 pm, in reply to "Re: Ford Focus 1.6 TDCi 2005 - Runs but cuts out under load #"
Message modified by board administrator October 25, 2011, 12:34 pm

Piotr
The tank has been off to see if there was any restriction and there is not a fuel pump located in the tank. There is a solenoid on the pump and this is the inlet metering valve, there is only a pressure sensing device on the rail.
Mark
I think I stated in the first part of my post but here we go. I get called in when the obvious, in most cases has not been successful. I can see serial data to the inlet metering valve of 16-30%, 1v - 2v if i scope the rail pressure sensor dependent on throttle position command, some times no change from the 16% or from the 1V, I can also see this when I scope the inlet metering valve, the pwm signal alters when greater fuel is demanded and doesn't when the engine dies. According to Ford between 2004 and 2008 there were only 2 systems fitted and the test being to disconnect the inlet metering valve and watch rail pressure, one system the IMV will default open and one system it will default closed. I have the later system the rail pressure data indicates 2-3bar.

Re: Ford Focus 1.6 TDCi 2005 - Runs but cuts out under load #

Posted by james McCallum <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=ukat5583' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on October 26, 2011, 11:04 pm, in reply to "Re: Ford Focus 1.6 TDCi 2005 - Runs but cuts out under load #"
James McCallum

Hi Pete,
the two main systems are Bosch and Delphi, Delphi use IMV and bosch use pressure regulating valve or propotioning valve. Delphi control inlet at the pump as you have described, Delphi also use two injectors to control rail pressure. Bosch control inlet, outlet or both. The proprtioning valve, on the pump can be set as open or closed with no supply. 700-900bar as you already know is very low for accelerating, have you checked pressure signal at PCM, either scope or current data, does anything else disappear i.e. cam, crank, injector signal when the vehicle stalls? Is the return line free of damage, kinks etc? Was the pump timed up when fitted, were the injectors coded into the vehicle. If older bosch system, X and Y injectors, all Y types preferred.
HTH Jim

Fixed #

Posted by Peter Doughty on November 9, 2011, 6:20 pm, in reply to "Re: Ford Focus 1.6 TDCi 2005 - Runs but cuts out under load #"
Message modified by board administrator November 11, 2011, 2:47 pm

Thanks for all the replies. It turns out that the vehicle has had extensive repair work on the transmission and the fuel line had been trapped at some stage and changed shape when the fuel filter was clipped back in place.
Fitted new fuel lines and the job is nearly a good one, it does not stall now but has developed a permanant code for the particulate filter.
Once again thanks for your help.

Re: Fixed #

Posted by Mark Carter <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT1428' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on November 12, 2011, 11:59 am, in reply to "Fixed #"
Mark Carter

Hi Pete,

Glad to see you have fixed it but in your first post you say >>> I have run the vehicle off an independent fuel supply but the symptom is still there.<<<

But the fix was a damaged fuel line?

Not trying to pick holes but just trying to understand the fix.

Regards Mark

Modern cars, Its all wizardry and witchcraft

Re: Fixed #

Posted by peter doughty <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=ukat3322' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on November 13, 2011, 7:29 pm, in reply to "Re: Fixed #"
Peter Doughty

Mark
I did run it off an independent fuel supply but with the filter in line. There were a number suggestions in the replies to look at the fuel filter, although it had been changed I was covering all bases. The pipe was kinked when the filter was clipped back into location but OK when lifted. I hope that makes it clear for you.

« Back to index

[ Diesel Diagnostics ]

Copyright © uk autotalk