Posted by John Chadwick on August 19, 2011, 7:49 pm
Year of Manufacture *: 2003 Engine Size and Code *: 1.9tdi pd ( Optional ) Scanner Used: kts/autologoc and pico scope ( Optional) Fault Codes: no fault codes
3weeks ago vehicle recoverd to workshop none starting, usual checks all ok no fault codes, went to scope crank/cam sensors and the bugger started well 3days on still starting so gave car back to customer. youve guessed 1 week later customer poped out in car, engine fully warm parked up for about 1/2 hour and it wont start, check compressions all ok, checked fuel supply from tank into and out of fuel filter and return, the "header fuel pump(one driven by crankshaft) has for the last few months been leaking slightly so we replaced it still not starting. Check crank and cam signals, checked at ecu, checked and volt drop tested feeds and earths to ecu, connected amp clamp and scope to injectors- no responce, ok back to ecu and sent for testing no faults found, long and meaningfull talk with man from ecu testing, back to scope pattern for crank sensor lovely pattern but maximum voltage on scope pattern 1 volt, removed sensor and tested, no signs of damage and results within spec - in for a penny, fitted new sensor anyway, still not starting, live data showing cranking speed of 301 rpm - now wheres that rope! tried to tow start vehicle, thought process was higher eng rpm increased voltage from crank sensor and away we go!! No, still not starting and whats more confussing no increase to voltage from crank sensor (it is an inductive sensor) cant get scope pattern to load, anyone come across this fault before any ideas much appreciated John
Re: vw golf none starting
Posted by Alan Lange on August 19, 2011, 8:35 pm, in reply to "vw golf none starting" Alan Lange
Hello John, what fuel pressure are you getting on cranking?
Re: vw golf none starting
Posted by Kevin Apps on August 19, 2011, 9:08 pm, in reply to "vw golf none starting" Kevin Apps
John Engine code would help.
"the "header fuel pump(one driven by crankshaft)"is confusing do you mean Tandem pump driven by the cam-shaft.
As Alan has asked what is the fuel pressure.
Kev.
Re: vw golf none starting
Posted by John Chadwick on August 20, 2011, 8:16 am, in reply to "vw golf none starting" John Chadwick
Hi , sorry engine code asz, I do mean the pump driven by camshaft, inprocess of trying to modify fuel pressure gauge to fit pump, did at first rule out as it is a new unit also spec values for pump pressure is with engine speed at 1500rpm (from memory) not much help when it dont start, will try to obtain some read out this afternoon many thanks for replies will keep you posted John
Re: vw golf none starting
Posted by Bryan Smith on August 20, 2011, 9:33 am, in reply to "Re: vw golf none starting" Bryan Smith
Hi John, Follow this link and have a look at the references. Number 12 is particularly useful as it is a PDF and you can download it to your PC.
Confirms you should see an amplitude of 4.5V on your crank sensor.
Are you getting the poor amplitude at the sensor plug or at the ECU plug? - the 1.9 PD is prone to chaffing it's engine harness where it runs across the starter motor / bottom hose, this causes all manner of sensor malfunctions - seen boost pressure, CTS, CPS signal issues due to this fault, green death usual to be seen seeping from the harness.
Also had a SDI Golf with a defective engine ECU, No DTC & no signal at the injectors, sent it off for testing to Actronics (usually pretty good) - they sent it back & said it was fine, a phone call revealed their admission that there is no substitute for testing on the vehicle - a new ECU cured it, again there was no signal at the injectors. doesn't explain your low amplitude on the cps though, (just a thought - you haven't left an attenuator in after testing the injectors have you - giving you a poor CPS pattern> I did once)
I have seen these shut down single injectors when a misfire is evident logging a DTC of "inj - malfunction in circuit", maybe a possible head harness earth path issue stopping all 4x??
Just for info - I've had a PD with a Tandem pump fail completely - the engine still started & ran with reduced performance off the 1 bar supplied by the tank pump. I've also had PD's with in tank pump failure & they won't start at all. The Tandem pump is incapable of pulling the fuel through.
Jon
Re: vw golf none starting
Posted by Alan Lange on August 21, 2011, 8:09 pm, in reply to "vw golf none starting" Alan Lange
Hello John, rather than converting your pressure gauge to fit the pump can't you see the fuel pressure on your kts?
Fixed #
Posted by John Chadwick on August 22, 2011, 6:02 pm, in reply to "Re: vw golf none starting" Message modified by board administrator August 23, 2011, 8:30 am
first thanks for feedback info very interesting and helpfull, no pressure sensors in system so kts cannot read, went back to basics, physical check of valve timing- all ok, then recheck compressions (they had been checked before and were ok) noticed this time on second cylinder test, engine sounding like it wanted to start, also signs of atomised diesel comming from other glowplug "holes", suspected engine drawing in air through glow plug holes so started looking for restriction on inlet system throttle flap stuck shut - it was solid, removed all carbon and released flap and engine started .Reconnected scope now "seeing" injector switching, the crank sensor still only showing 1 volt right through rev range? but this does not seem to restict starting or performance
Fixed #
Posted by Alan Lange on August 22, 2011, 9:00 pm, in reply to "fixed" Message modified by board administrator August 23, 2011, 8:30 am
Isn't it refreshing to fix something with a simple tool kit these days!