Vauxhall Vectra C 1.9 TD 2005 - Still runs with key removed #
Posted by Nigel Bennett on June 9, 2011, 10:20 pm
Year of Manufacture *: 2005 Engine Size and Code *: Z1.9 TD ( Optional ) ECU Type: edc16 ( Optional ) Scanner Used: Voxcom
Vehicle starts fine runs fine drives fine all fine! Except, it doesn't stop running when the key is removed? Something is keeping the engine ecu alive and pulling the K2 relay in. CIM shows the ignition Off status so we assume this is working ok.
Any ideas Please? Nigel..
Re: Vauxhall / Vectra C
Posted by martin simonsohn on June 10, 2011, 9:27 am, in reply to "Vauxhall / Vectra C" Martin Simonsohn
Hi have you checked the charge rate from the altenator and the earth return to body and engine as a faulty altenator could cause back feed on ignition side
Re: Vauxhall / Vectra C
Posted by Tony Sefton on June 10, 2011, 7:43 pm, in reply to "Re: Vauxhall / Vectra C" Tony Sefton
Ohhh no it couldn't.
Re: Vauxhall / Vectra C
Posted by martin simonsohn on June 10, 2011, 11:01 pm, in reply to "Re: Vauxhall / Vectra C" Martin Simonsohn
tony why is that if the diode pack or the regulater within the altenator has failed short circit it is possible for the altenator to back feed the warning lamp circit therfore keeping the warning lamp on with ignition off there for engine stays running with ignition off. have had this with a vauxhall about aa year ago. garage changed the pump ignition switch and heater control before i looked at it and found altenator faulty strange thing it started and stopped with altenator warning cicit disconected and new alt cured fault so im sorry but ohh yes it can i thought it bight be worth checking and no one else has posted any ideas ect and after all it doesent take long to check!
sorry nigel
Re: Vauxhall / Vectra C
Posted by Tony Sefton on June 10, 2011, 11:22 pm, in reply to "Re: Vauxhall / Vectra C" Tony Sefton
Hi Martin. I am not trying to be a pain, BUT, Seeing as common type alternator has a Battery positive supply and a warning light wire which turns to Battery voltage "ALL" the time that the engine is running, The alternator does not know that the ignition has been turned off until it slows down and stops. ??? At that point the Voltage on the warning light wire then drops off and becomes an earth through the Rotor windings (or regulator on the later models).
If a Rectifier pack fails, it can backfeed and send a positive signal back up the warning light wire, This will keep the warning light on with the ignition off, But seeing as it normally has a feed up the wire all the time that the engine is running anyway, How can this cause the engine to fail to stop. ?
I Have never seen an alternator cause a run on problem, I have seen people blame them on older cars, But the true cause is usually elswhere, i,e incorrect warning light bulb fitted etc. ( too high a wattage allowing current back into the ignition system )
Tony.
Re: Vauxhall / Vectra C
Posted by roy ritchie on June 11, 2011, 9:18 am, in reply to "Re: Vauxhall / Vectra C" Roy Ritchie
""why is that if the diode pack or the regulater within the altenator has failed short circit it is possible for the altenator to back feed the warning lamp circit therfore keeping the warning lamp on with ignition off there for engine stays running with ignition off"" The warning lamp circut isn't conecteted to alternator on this model it goes to engine control module then by can to cim.Have a look at diagram on autodata.
When the Alternator is spinning, It Always outputs battery voltage from the warning light terminal, So whether the Diode pack has failed or not, It makes no difference.
Think about it like this, If the alternator is spinning, The Warning light terminal is outputting battery voltage, The Warning light bulb then has battery voltage on both sides so the light goes out.
If you turn off the igntion, How does the alternator know that you have turned it off. ?? it doesn't do anything different, It still keeps outputting battery voltage up the warning light wire until the engine has stopped.
This is why on some diesels. ( remember the ford escorts ) They had to have a Diode installed in the Warning light wire, otherwise the Alternator did Backfeed and would keep the engine running by keeping the stop solenoid held open Simply due to the few milliamps that was flowing back through the warning light bulb back into the ignition circuit. ( Thats Because thats how an alternator works, not because it was faulty )
As Roy Says This does not apply to the Vectra C as the alternator warning light wire goes to the Ecu, Not the Dash, But I would think the same Scenario applies. The test method for the Alternator is Exactly the same as a Conventional alternator.
H.T.H. Tony.
Re: Vauxhall / Vectra C
Posted by martin simonsohn on June 12, 2011, 1:31 pm, in reply to "Re: Vauxhall / Vectra C" Martin Simonsohn
this isnt helping nigel with his problem i only said it was worth checking the altenator as it can POSSIBLY cause a switch off problem. right on said OLDER vauxhall that would not turn off if the ignition circit is back fed from the warning lamp there is just enough current there within the circit to hold the stop valve from closing. i know what i found at the point of fault and i know that changing the altenator DID rectify the fault
Re: Vauxhall / Vectra C
Posted by martin simonsohn on June 12, 2011, 1:48 pm, in reply to "Vauxhall / Vectra C" Martin Simonsohn
hi nigel just had a look on ad at the diagram there are 2 relays within the engine bay fuse box one is ignition main circit the othe is engine control relay would be wort testin them to see if they ar holding in or if they have gone short across pin 30 to pin 87 are the ignition/dash warning lamps switching off with the key and i preume you are stalling it to stop it when engine off is the ecu still recieving an ignition supply? the only other thing i could see from the diagram worth checking is the red and white wire from the preheater control see if that is remaing live with engine off poss short internal of pre heater control unit failing that you will need to check the wiring to the ecu to find what circit is not shutting down if you can pinpoint where to check next hth martin
on June 10, 2011, 9:27 am, in reply to "