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Vauxhall Astra 1.7 DTi 2002 - Non start , fault code P0380 - Fixed #

Posted by Phil Kingdon on March 6, 2011, 8:39 am

Year of Manufacture *: 2002
Engine Size and Code *: 1.7 dti
( Optional ) Scanner Used: solus

This van has arrived from another garage, only one code stored, from memory p0340, but ignore that if thats not a glow plug code, the other garage has tried an ECU on the pump to no avail, there is no fuel at injectors, my immediate thoughts went to crank angle sensor which autodata tells me I can perform an ohms test on, according to this data it had failed, got a new one fitted it, no start, removed and tested it, this one also failed by their test, but I think the info may be incorrect.
The van will start with a sniff of easy start. Will hopefully be back on this monday, sorry not much info yet but I didnt want to miss the weekends brainstorming.
Thanks for reading, Phil.

Re: vauxhall astra dti no start

Posted by Mark Carter <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT1428' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 6, 2011, 9:19 am, in reply to "vauxhall astra dti no start"
Mark Carter

Hi Phil,

>>> only one code stored, from memory p0340, but ignore that if thats not a glow plug code <<<

WHY ?

Regards Mark

Modern cars, Its all wizardry and witchcraft

Re: vauxhall astra dti no start

Posted by Matt Booth <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=ukat3028' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 6, 2011, 9:35 am, in reply to "Re: vauxhall astra dti no start"
Matthew Booth

P0340 is a cmp code and therefore very important. Scope the sensors, ohms test is always iffy.

Is there fuel getting to the pump? Is the filter ok? These do suffer with air leaks in the fuel system.

Matt

Re: vauxhall astra dti no start

Posted by keith geach <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT5403' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 6, 2011, 10:05 am, in reply to "Re: vauxhall astra dti no start"
Keith Geach

It runs on easy start, what does this prove? Please explain.
These do have problems with cambelt drive systems.

P0340 is this a relevant code for this vehicle?
(only on some serial tools I believe)

P0340 is cam position sensor.

Re: vauxhall astra dti no start

Posted by tony bickers <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT5143' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 6, 2011, 11:30 am, in reply to "Re: vauxhall astra dti no start"
Tony Bickers

Has this got the EDC box on the back of the block? Had one a couple of weeks ago with dry solder joints causing non start

Re: vauxhall astra dti no start

Posted by phil kingdon <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT1433' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 6, 2011, 6:39 pm, in reply to "Re: vauxhall astra dti no start"
Phil Kingdon

Thanks for all replies, sorry Mark I tried to do this from memory I code read this at work but posted from home, thought I may have got code wrong, but I do know it was a glow plug related code.
There is no fuel at the injectors, I bypassed the filter with a can of fuel and a hand pump from a peugeot,still no fuel at injector.
Kieth, the fact that this runs on easy start I felt was worth mentioning as it demonstrates that it is reasonably mechanically sound, perhaps you disagree with this method?
Tony, This van has a pump ecu but previous garage had fitted a new one I did check inside the old one they gave me and by appearances is ok, I retried this unit with new crank sensor in case new one needed codeing to car, still no workee.
Thanks for all these replies, (still must buy a scope!)
Cheers Phil

Re: vauxhall astra dti no start

Posted by tony bickers <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT5143' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 6, 2011, 10:27 pm, in reply to "Re: vauxhall astra dti no start"
Tony Bickers

Hi back Phil, Had exactly same scenario, with the one I had no codes logged using Vauxcom, the EDC unit is a seperate box bolted onto the back of the block, these suffer dry solder joints.

Re: vauxhall astra dti no start

Posted by Kevin Apps <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT2589' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 7, 2011, 12:46 am, in reply to "Re: vauxhall astra dti no start"
Kevin Apps

Phil
"Tony, This van has a pump ecu but previous garage had fitted a new one"
A "new" one seems unlikely due to cost,the EDU does not only suffer from dry jionts, but 99% of all EDU faults give a code.
Why post a code you are not sure is correct !!
Kev.

Re: vauxhall astra dti no start

Posted by phil kingdon <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT1433' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 7, 2011, 7:21 am, in reply to "Re: vauxhall astra dti no start"
Phil Kingdon

Thanks Tony, will look today, Kev, sorry!
Thanks, Phil.

Re: vauxhall astra dti no start

Posted by lee mackintosh <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT1348' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 7, 2011, 8:40 am, in reply to "Re: vauxhall astra dti no start"
Lee Mackintosh

So do these engines start if the glow plugs aren't working as its not a common rail diesel tyoe (i don't think it is)

I've had one before where the glow plug control ecu (near battery) was faulty and it caused difficult starting.

Also if the edu unit is at fault they don't always log a code.

Re: vauxhall astra dti no start

Posted by keith geach <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT5403' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 7, 2011, 10:09 am, in reply to "Re: vauxhall astra dti no start"
Keith Geach

Is the spill valve being triggered?
Is the trigger signal going into the EDU?

Easy start, mechanically sound.
Diesels will start/run on easy start with low compression, valve timing out, bent rods,no fuel delivery for what ever reason etc.

Easy start and diesel have different properties, ie you are not comparing like for like, so would the results be of any value? Very little other than the real reason has not been found?

Re: vauxhall astra dti no start

Posted by phil kingdon <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT1433' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 7, 2011, 1:39 pm, in reply to "Re: vauxhall astra dti no start"
Phil Kingdon

Ok, Now I have correct code, apolagies, P0380, I have in my autodata a known fault, glow plugs fault, with this code as a possible cause for non start, hence easy start, on which it will run but still there is no fuel delivery to injectors, does fuel delivery depend in any way on glow plug signal sent and recieved? (I doubt it).
I have checked for dry joints in EDU, this is I assume unit parked on block below fuel pump, all seems well, also this is the unit replaced by garage who own this van, so it has a new unit.
Thanks for reply Lee, its not common rail.
Thanks for patience, Phil.

Re: vauxhall astra dti no start

Posted by keith geach <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT5403' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 7, 2011, 1:58 pm, in reply to "Re: vauxhall astra dti no start"
Keith Geach

Can suffer with cambelt drive system.
Signals need checking along with +ve and gnds.

Re: vauxhall astra dti no start

Posted by Kevin Apps <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT2589' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 7, 2011, 3:02 pm, in reply to "Re: vauxhall astra dti no start"
Kevin Apps

Phil
Unless it,s really cold these start even if the glow-plugs don,t work.
How many mile,s has this done ? NEW EDU from the dealer ? has it been tested either on or off the car ?
Does the spill valve read active in live data ?

As Kieth has mentioned these do suffer timing belt problems, or should that be the oil pump pulley nut loosen,s and no drive to the oil pump.

It will run on easy-start with very low compressions.
Kev.

Re: vauxhall astra dti no start

Posted by Lee Mackintosh <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT1348' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 7, 2011, 6:14 pm, in reply to "Re: vauxhall astra dti no start"
Lee Mackintosh

is it possible to check if the spill valve is pulsing with a voltmeter or a power probe.

I've in the past using a power probe activated the spill valve (switched earth side) whilst cranking just to see if the engine will fire into life, if it does then i'd be fairly confident its the pump ecu at fault.

Not a recommended procedure i don't suppose but if you pulse the switch on the power probe as fast as possible it will work.

Re: vauxhall astra dti no start

Posted by aidan <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT2879' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 7, 2011, 6:59 pm, in reply to "Re: vauxhall astra dti no start"
Aidan Birley

Hi

am I understanding this correctly in that it will start on a sniff & then continue to run OK ? or just runs on a sniff then stops ?

I seam to remember these had a tight tappet issue causing cold start problem ,

That doesn't tie in with no diesel being injected.

cheers Aidan

Re: vauxhall astra dti no start

Posted by phil kingdon <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT1433' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 7, 2011, 10:36 pm, in reply to "Re: vauxhall astra dti no start"
Phil Kingdon

Great to get so many replies,thanks to all, van starts on a sniff, wont keep running, at no time does it begin to even recieve the slightest amount of fuel at injector (union undone on first inj), the oil lamp goes out with short crank and is recognised on live data, I have heard about cam timing issues, but have never had to deal with any on one of these before but would assume I would still see fuel!
Lee, which is the spill valve, one of those on the pump?
As I didnt buy the new EDU or fit it I dont Know who the supplier is, I should be able to find that out.
Finally does the new EDU require codeing or is it simply fit and run?
Ta for all help again, Phil.

Re: vauxhall astra dti no start

Posted by keith geach <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT5403' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 8, 2011, 8:14 am, in reply to "Re: vauxhall astra dti no start"
Keith Geach

Spill valve is above H/P pipes (same place as bosch elab).
If not a genuine new EDU then this may be you cause but be warned pump sensor can cut spill valve operation so using independent supply will not prove this.

Using signal checking would stop guess work.

Re: vauxhall astra dti no start

Posted by Lee Mackintosh <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT1348' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 8, 2011, 1:28 pm, in reply to "Re: vauxhall astra dti no start"
Lee Mackintosh

Phil,

The spill valve is the one nearest the fuel pipes towards the rear of the pump with the Gray 2 pin connector.

Can't remember which wire you pulse for certain but i think its the blue/red one.

Be warned it will knock and smoke like mad.

Whilst cranking have you got a live data for engine speed and pump rotation speed.

thanks
lee

Re: vauxhall astra dti no start

Posted by phil kingdon <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT1433' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 9, 2011, 7:25 am, in reply to "Re: vauxhall astra dti no start"
Phil Kingdon

Will check today, did not get a lot of time yesterday, but borrowed a friend and his "opcom"" got alittle more info, yes cranking speed so sensor is working, not sure about pump rotation speed, also wanted to check immobilizor is not set but did not get that far.
One thing we did spot was that although the oil light went out quickly when cranking the data still recorded low pressure!
What pressure is required for succsessful start?
Is it just an on/off switch for oil pressure?
How closely is it monitored?
Thanks, Phil

Re: vauxhall astra dti no start

Posted by Lee Mackintosh <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT1348' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 9, 2011, 8:05 am, in reply to "Re: vauxhall astra dti no start"
Lee Mackintosh

Normally if its an immobiliser issue the spanner light will flash when ignition is switched on but i suppose its worth doing a global scan.

Can't helpout with the oil light situation but i'd think it would read some pressure during cranking.

Fixed #

Posted by Phil Kingdon on March 21, 2011, 3:22 pm, in reply to "Re: vauxhall astra dti no start"
Message modified by board administrator March 22, 2011, 2:47 pm

Been messing around with this one off and on since last post, weve checked things like the immobilizor, oil pressure again, this time with more cranking the pressure came good. (Assume it had not run for a while.)
Also checked for pulse on spill switch as advised it did have a signal but still van would not send fuel up to injectors!
Today removed spill switch, to do this you must remove adjacent fuel pipe, this had a microfilter in it, it didnt look blocked but its now in the bin!
We cranked engine with spill switch out (in desperation, not a lot seemed to occur) and also we disconnected small black sensor on rear of pump and found it very wet in connector, this we dried out, when car went back together it started, have driven it no problems, only general glow plug control error remains on ECU, no management lamp on.
Which of these was the fix?
I would bet on microfilter.
Thanks for all your help guys.
Phil.

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