Diesel Diagnostics

Post a Response

Citroen C5 1.6 16v 2005 - Blown turbo - Fixed #

Posted by Tony Short on August 12, 2010, 1:57 pm

Year of Manufacture *: 2005
Engine Size and Code *: 1.6 16v

I have this beauty to fix. I am looking at the various options for sourcing a turbo.
On the bay there is someone selling what is described as the "cartridge". This appears to be the shaft and blade assembly and at £169 looks like a way to a cheap fix for the owners. They want to get rid of it! A rebuilt unit @ £400 or new at £540. Citroen is £800 exchange or £1K for new.
Has anyone changed just the blades on this application?
BTW I have read and digested all the fitting implications!
Cheers,
Tony

Re: Citroen C5 1.6 16v 2005 - Blown turbo #

Posted by Sam Green User icon on August 14, 2010, 11:10 am, in reply to "Citroen C5 1.6 16v 2005 - Blown turbo #"
Sam Green

Just had a peugeot 407 on (06)plate in with the same engine. Fitted two new re-cons, one under warrenty and they siezed, then customer took it to peugeot for a brand new one and that one siezed as well. Please stay WELL AWAY as engine oil ways block and nothing you can do with then apart from fit a new engine. If you take the job on then fit a new turbo but in my experiance these are bad news!!!!!!!

.Good luck on what ever choice you make!!
Sam

Re: Citroen C5 1.6 16v 2005 - Blown turbo #

Posted by Piotr Sokolowski User icon on August 14, 2010, 5:27 pm, in reply to "Re: Citroen C5 1.6 16v 2005 - Blown turbo #"

if it is the same like focus 1.6 , peugeot 1.6 , mazda 1.6 - yes they are pain to do it.I have been on the technical evening with BTN TURBO and guy said this engine is big crap. He recomended to don't touch this.

Link: www.pandpauto.eu

Re: Citroen C5 1.6 16v 2005 - Blown turbo #

Posted by Dave Hill User icon on August 14, 2010, 9:13 pm, in reply to "Re: Citroen C5 1.6 16v 2005 - Blown turbo #"

"""Has anyone changed just the blades on this application?"""

Do these things need balancing? I don't know for sure, but something that spins at 20,000 rpm, might need some specialist attention.

We have changed a few of these turbo's now. We insist on replacing the oil feed & return pipes & the sump has to come off too, so that the strainer can be assessed.

These needs to be treated like a heart transplant. If you cut corners then the victim will die

Cheers

Dave

Re: Citroen C5 1.6 16v 2005 - Blown turbo #

Posted by Sam Green User icon on August 14, 2010, 9:50 pm, in reply to "Re: Citroen C5 1.6 16v 2005 - Blown turbo #"
Sam Green

Hi dave,
I replaced feed and return pipe, new pick up, engine flushed engine and new oil & filter twice, but still blew up another turbo.
Again, these are bad news but good luck to all.

.
Sam

Re: Citroen C5 1.6 16v 2005 - Blown turbo #

Posted by Dave Hill User icon on August 14, 2010, 10:14 pm, in reply to "Re: Citroen C5 1.6 16v 2005 - Blown turbo #"

Hi Sam

Who has picked up the bill for these repeated failures?

Although I agree that these are not engineered very well, we have to bare in mind that the turbo worked fine on the engine as it left the factory. What has changed in the period between?

If your feed/return are proven & the pick up is clear, then other factors need to be confirmed. Oil pressure & flow rates, for example.

Pressure values are quoted in many data systems, although you might have to rely on common sense, for evaluation of flow rates.

Many replacement turbo failures caused by foreign objects entering the compressor fan. Another thing that is often overlooked, is the oil residue remaining in the intercooler or associated pipework. An engine running at full pelt, on engine oil is not a good thing.

I am not saying that these points are relevant to this thread, but they are certainly relevant to the motor trade in general.

Cheers

Dave

Re: Citroen C5 1.6 16v 2005 - Blown turbo #

Posted by Mark Carter User icon on August 14, 2010, 10:29 pm, in reply to "Re: Citroen C5 1.6 16v 2005 - Blown turbo #"

Hi Dave,

>>>These need to be treated like a heart transplant. If you cut corners then the victim will die<<<

I like that !!!

The same thing applies to many automotive repairs nowadays. But does that mean that we have got to go back to college and learn to be surgeons???

Regards
Mark.

Modern cars, Its all wizardry and witchcraft

Re: Citroen C5 1.6 16v 2005 - Blown turbo #

Posted by Sam Green User icon on August 15, 2010, 2:12 pm, in reply to "Re: Citroen C5 1.6 16v 2005 - Blown turbo #"
Sam Green

Hi Dave,
I did do a flow test on the mentioned vehicle, the only thing that i didnt Replace or strip to inspect was the oil pump itself. I agree it is like performing a heart transplant but i personaly blame the sevice intervals, burning oil carboning up oilways and journals. I always recomend to my customers that i change the oil more frequently than the manufacturers advise but thats just me i suppose. Main peugeot agent in norwich where he took it after me, fitted a turbo and when that one blew they then told him the only way to quarante this will not happen again would be to fit a new engine which i told the fella in the first place because i had done some reserch on these engines.
Unfortunatly that was at a cost to him of 4000 pound. As you would expect he decided to scrap the car. As to the question about the bill, he did pay for the first turbo from me, second was under quarente but as we have a very good relationship he was very understnding and could see that his car was the problem and not our turbos or workmanship.
This car left me feeling very deflated but haho.
Thanks for the chat about this one but i think we can safely say that if another one comes throught my workshop door, i will turn then away!!

.
Sam

Re: Citroen C5 1.6 16v 2005 - Blown turbo #

Posted by John Ritchie User icon on August 17, 2010, 8:46 pm, in reply to "Re: Citroen C5 1.6 16v 2005 - Blown turbo #"
John Ritchie

Hi all , if this unit is the same as in the ford then there is multiple page tsb's on this one .A mate of mine mentioned they can take over a day to carry out the tsb .They had the same problem until the tsb came out to rectify .

Out of interest do these cars have a full service history using a good quality synthetic oil ?

Regards
JR

Re: Citroen C5 1.6 16v 2005 - Blown turbo #

Posted by Mark Carter User icon on August 17, 2010, 10:07 pm, in reply to "Re: Citroen C5 1.6 16v 2005 - Blown turbo #"
Mark Carter

Hi John, what does the TSB consist of ?

Modern cars, Its all wizardry and witchcraft

Re: Citroen C5 1.6 16v 2005 - Blown turbo #

Posted by martin young User icon on August 18, 2010, 8:03 pm, in reply to "Re: Citroen C5 1.6 16v 2005 - Blown turbo #"
Martin Young

mark
a hell of alot of pages thats for sure
martin

Re: Citroen C5 1.6 16v 2005 - Blown turbo #

Posted by John Ritchie User icon on August 18, 2010, 8:18 pm, in reply to "Re: Citroen C5 1.6 16v 2005 - Blown turbo #"
John Ritchie

Hi Mark , he says a book lol .I am trying to get a copy for future reference

JR

Re: Citroen C5 1.6 16v 2005 - Blown turbo #

Posted by steve fisher User icon on August 18, 2010, 8:48 pm, in reply to "Re: Citroen C5 1.6 16v 2005 - Blown turbo #"
Steve Fisher

I look after two Partners and a 407 [same company] and both vans have done nearly 200k and the 407 is getting to 150k all three on there original turbos and all three have had all services carried out at the correct intervals using the correct grade/spec oil

Ive also seen multiple turbo failures on DV6 engined vehicles and every one has no or dubious service history

If i get a DV6 with a blown turbo and i dont mean the nut has fell off the compressor [common as well] i always insist on removing the sump and the cam covers first , if the cam covers look like an old ford cvh then its game over for the engine no amount of flush or the fluid that dealers recommend will stop premature turbo failure

Steve

Re: Citroen C5 1.6 16v 2005 - Blown turbo #

Posted by Dav Littlewood User icon on August 18, 2010, 8:55 pm, in reply to "Re: Citroen C5 1.6 16v 2005 - Blown turbo #"

The problem I had was caused by the feed filter in the bolt to the block

Did the first about 2 years ago (@60K).
Also removed sump, oil cooler & replace all pipes.
One month later a siezed turbo caused by the oil feed pipe bolt in the block - the filter had still got choked up.
Removed the filter from inside the bolt, the vehicle is still running 80K later.

Fixed #

Posted by Tony Short on September 23, 2010, 4:52 pm, in reply to "Citroen C5 1.6 16v 2005 - Blown turbo #"
Message modified by board administrator September 24, 2010, 1:58 pm

First off,thanks for everyone that put something into helping me fix this,much appreciated.
Got the turbo from ECP in the end as it was a genuine new Garret unit.
I followed the fitting list to the letter. The oil filter was one big gooey black lump!
Took off the plastic inlet pipe,all the turbo pipes and intercooler and cleaned out the surplus oil.
After I refilled with oil but before putting the turbo/DPF back on I ran the engine briefly so I could check that oil came out of the feed hole in the block. Put it all back together and did the oil volume over 60 seconds and got 500 ml so within spec.
Unfortunately the car ran badly!
Several codes logged and the info display flashing block.
Took off the DPF and it was quite literally blocked with carbon.
Fitted a new DPF,cleared the codes and it ran very well.Did a further oil change at this point and let owner have it back.
Its been back with them 3 weeks and they tell me its running ok. I did put them off driving up to Cumbria from Reading!
I did go through with them before starting the work all the possibilities of engine damage and they were ok with this.
The only upside doing this job is that all the parts are accessable, a unique thing on a french car!
Hope this may help someone else.
Cheers,
Tony

Fixed ? #

Posted by steve fisher on September 23, 2010, 9:23 pm, in reply to "Re: Citroen C5 1.6 16v 2005 - Blown turbo Fixed (I hope!)"
Message modified by board administrator September 24, 2010, 1:59 pm

Tony glad its fixed so far

IMHO if you havent dropped the sump then your asking for trouble especially as you said the oil filter was a lump of black goo

Like i said before the inside of the cam covers and sump look like an old Ford CVH on poorly maintained DV6

Steve

Re: Fixed ? #

Posted by Tony Short User icon on September 25, 2010, 12:27 pm, in reply to "Fixed ? #"
Tony Short

Hi Steve,
I did drop the sump and clean out the oil cooler.
Car will be coming back in soon for another oil change.
Cheers,
Tony

Re: Fixed ? #

Posted by Paul Mccooke User icon on September 27, 2010, 8:49 pm, in reply to "Re: Fixed ? #"
Paul McCooke

Tony,
drop the sump and clean pickup gauze again, there is a good chance its blocking up, and as already mentioned, remove the oil feed pipe filter, its doing more harm than good. I'm locked in an ongoing battle trying to cure an engine of this problem, i will post the long sad story if it ever concludes, i would like to know where the thick black snot is hiding though, have checked cam box/cover, oil cooler, crankcase and all oil feed pipes etc. Some of the dirt is soft and some carbonized.I advice all PSA engine owners to have 10K oil changes to avoid this, its like going back to CVH days, good times them

Paul

« Index

[ Diesel Diagnostics ]