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Renault clio 1.5 DCi 2001 - Hard to start, codes 185, 694 and 473 - Fixed #

Posted by Phil Kingdon on March 12, 2010, 11:28 am

Year of Manufacture *: 2001
Engine Code or CC *: 1500
( Optional ) Scanner Used: solus

Car arrived running but was hard to start for customer after not using it for a few days, glow plug, eml also lit.
Code read and found codes present,
185 combustion cyl 3 stored.
694 cyl 3 injection circuit open current.
473 preheater plug circuit stored, came up later after some testing.

After removing connectors from injectors and checking all appeared well, removing a heater plug and attempting compression test on cyl 3 (which likely stored 473) vehicle now runs only on 3 cylinders, and will not rev except if started with throttle, but still missfires, thought we had injector fault as this car has already had one fitted, cyl 1 french style!
Fitted new injector to dodgey cyl, this has not altered anything!
Checked for continuity of feed cables, all seems well, I dont know if this would work , but i have tried leaving new injector fitted but plumbing in and connecting old one, no fuel at all came out!
Have i missed something?
I should think so!
Any help welcome, thanks Phrom fill

Re: Renault clio 1.5 dci

Posted by Aidan Birley on March 12, 2010, 1:27 pm, in reply to "Renault clio 1.5 dci"
Message modified by board administrator March 15, 2010, 4:39 pm

hi

what tests have you done on injector circuit ? thinking you will need to scope to see what is happening.

Did you check wires with ohm meter or under load ? check also for shorts to earth.

Cheers Aidan

Re: Renault clio 1.5 dci

Posted by Dave Hill <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT2783' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 14, 2010, 6:28 pm, in reply to "Re: Renault clio 1.5 dci"

Aidan is spot on when he says "thinking you will need to scope to see what is happening."

every time you unplug a component to test it, as you will often do with a multi meter, you are disturbing the crime scene. If you were to scope the current flow of the injectors, then you are not only able to see the circuit integrity is good, but also the injector resistances too.

Often refereed to as "unobtrusive" or "dynamic testing", the benefits should not be ignored. How often have you dismantled things for test purposes, only to later consider if your "fiddling" has effected the outcome of your test results.

I genuinely believe that anyone who wants to test & diagnose effectively in the modern age, will need good serial coverage & equal measuring equipment. Gas analyser & scoping capabilities are essential!

Cheers all

Dave

Re: Renault clio 1.5 dci

Posted by carl ford <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT1822' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 14, 2010, 10:30 pm, in reply to "Re: Renault clio 1.5 dci"
Carl Ford

not sure if i`m right but am sure i have calibrated some injectors before on the 1.5 dci dont think the solus will do it but am sure other scanners will as think i did one with ad

hth

Re: Renault clio 1.5 dci

Posted by phil kingdon <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT1433' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 14, 2010, 10:57 pm, in reply to "Re: Renault clio 1.5 dci"
Phillip Kingdon

Thanks for replies!
Unfortunatly at the moment we dont have a scope, a bit of advice on the best value unit would be welcome, but at the moment I have to try and sort this car, Carl mentioned codeing these injectors, I was aware that this should be done but wasnt sure that it would make the car completely missfire.
This car did previously have one injector fitted some time ago with no problems, we didnt code that one!
As for tests already carried out we used a prologic probe and got a hertz reading from faulty injector harness with engine running, this was virtually the same as injector with functioning cylinder.
Solus does not have recodeing facility, (thought I'd bought the best!)
Thanks for the help, all the best, Fill.

Re: Renault clio 1.5 dci

Posted by Mark Carter <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT1428' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 15, 2010, 10:36 am, in reply to "Re: Renault clio 1.5 dci"
Mark Carter

Hi Phil, these Delphi systems are prone to issues, take all four injectors out and send them away for testing, whilst they are out carry out a compression test to assure a good mechanical base to start your diagnosis from, and go from there. HTH

Regards Mark

Modern cars, Its all wizardry and witchcraft

Re: Renault clio 1.5 dci

Posted by phil kingdon <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT1433' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 15, 2010, 2:46 pm, in reply to "Re: Renault clio 1.5 dci"
Phillip Kingdon

Thanks Mark, Im not sure that testing all injectors is required, we have only one cylinder with missfire, and this one has a new injector, it was fitted after missfire began while the vehicle was here, the vehicle arrived running on four although with poor starting.
I dont think we have an issue with compression as it was ok, also the dummy injector I tried didnt squirt at all.
Im still unsure if coding this injector to ecu would fix this?
Can they really be so far out from each other that it would not inject at all?
Incidentally the injector is a genuine Bosch unit, but from GFS, are these any good?
Ta, Fill

Re: Renault clio 1.5 dci

Posted by Dave Hill <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT2783' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 15, 2010, 10:22 pm, in reply to "Re: Renault clio 1.5 dci"

Hi Phil

I thought this Clio would have Delphi injectors fitted?

Regarding the point about entering the injector correction factor codes, it is my opinion that this will make no difference to whether it will inject or not. My thoughts are that the correction codes offer only a "minor trim" or fine tuning for each injector & it is not essential to code the system in order to make an injector work.

These Delphi injectors are notorious for failing even if they are slightly disturbed. Simply uncracking the injector pipe & introducing air, can cause them not to function. I was talking to a Renault tech recently & he told me about one occasion when he was about to fit a brand new injector & something distracted him & he went for his lunch. An hour later he fits the injector, that had been left on the top of his tool box (open to atmosphere) & it didn't work.

These points need to be considered when doing other repair work that will require the injectors to be disturbed (head gasket replacement for example) Quote or caution accordingly!

Regarding a choice of scope. I have only experience of Picoscope & I rate it highly. It is not over expensive & you never be short of advice if you are struggling to get to grips with it. Imagine how useful it would be, to see for yourself, that the injector in question is functioning correctly electronically, but still not squirting. It would give you considerable confidence to move in a direction.

HTH

Dave

Re: Renault clio 1.5 dci

Posted by phil kingdon <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT1433' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 16, 2010, 10:16 pm, in reply to "Re: Renault clio 1.5 dci"
Phillip Kingdon

Thanks for input Dave,
since last post I have tried fitting old injector which was considered faulty back onto the fuel distributor but not in head, if I connect it to cylinder three with fault it does not squirt, if however I connect it to a known good cylinders harness it does, it seems we have either a faulty Ecu, or injector harness, should get a little more time tommorow to look at wireing and or send ECU for test.
Any thoughts, thanks for reading Phrom fill.

Fixed #

Posted by phil kingdon on March 29, 2010, 5:39 pm, in reply to "Re: Renault clio 1.5 dci"
Message modified by board administrator March 30, 2010, 3:16 pm

As posted above, fitted ECU, this sorted the fault, seems from Renault that this unit has been known to fail in this way.
Hmmmm, in what ways have Renault been known not to fail?
Any way Fixed, cheers fill

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