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Ford Transit (Pick up) 2.5 Di 2004 (54) - EGR fault, code P0409 #

Posted by Paul Howd on January 22, 2010, 12:15 pm

Year of Manufacture *: 54 plate
Engine Code or CC *: 2.4 DI (The non-common rail one)
( Optional ) Scanner Used: Multiscan

MIL on.

Code for P0409 (EGR Position sensor)

Code will not clear (KOEO)

(IE it immediatly resets without having to start or run the engine)

As far as I can tell, the supply, earth and signal wires seem to be giving credable voltages.

(Though Autodata is auto non-data on this model!)

The signal one varies if I apply vacume to the egr valve (and I can get a responce in the live data indicating that the valve operates when I do this "proving" the wiring between the Valve and the ECU and, i presume, ECU operation)

So what is the "stratagy" for setting this code and is there any other way of testing the EGR valve other than by replacing it.

Re: Ford Transit (Pick up)-EGR fault s

Posted by Sean Mc Gettigan <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT5291' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on January 22, 2010, 12:18 pm, in reply to "Ford Transit (Pick up)-EGR fault s"
Sean McGettigan

Is the valve fully closed Paul?

Sean

Re: Ford Transit (Pick up)-EGR fault s

Posted by Paul Howd on January 26, 2010, 6:33 pm, in reply to "Re: Ford Transit (Pick up)-EGR fault s"
Message modified by board administrator January 27, 2010, 7:47 am

Valve appears fully closed when closed.

"Signal" wire is at 0 Volts with no vac appled.

As hard as I can suck gets it up to 1.8V

Earth is at 0 Volts, Supply is at just under 5V

Everyhting seems to be working (except that it isnt)

It is not clear what it is that the ECU is picking up on to decide that the sensor is faulty?

Re: Ford Transit (Pick up)-EGR fault s

Posted by Peter Rainsley <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT5418' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on January 26, 2010, 8:47 pm, in reply to "Re: Ford Transit (Pick up)-EGR fault s"
Peter Rainsley

Paul,
if this EGR valve is actuated by vacuum, T into the vacuum line and monitor what is happening. Being a diesel, it should open off-load, and at idle, and shut at WOT. So, have you a vacuum signal at idle, which disappears at WOT? Follow the vacuum lines and there should be an EGR operating solenoid. 12v supply, and ground switched by the ecu. Does the solenoid have vacuum to it, does it leak, is it switching?
HTH,
Peter

Re: Ford Transit (Pick up)-EGR fault s

Posted by Mark Carter <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT1428' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on January 26, 2010, 10:27 pm, in reply to "Re: Ford Transit (Pick up)-EGR fault s"
Mark Carter

Hi, I think you may have already found the reason for the code
you said that the output with no vac is zero volts, most sensor outputs start at about .5 of a volt and go up to about 4.5 volts
leaving the two ends of the voltage range for self testing reasons.
I may be wrong but please check. HTH
regards Mark

Modern cars, Its all wizardry and witchcraft

Re: Ford Transit (Pick up)-EGR fault s

Posted by Paul Howd <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT5151' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on January 27, 2010, 9:48 am, in reply to "Re: Ford Transit (Pick up)-EGR fault s"
Paul Howd

That makes sense!

That is sort of what I am looking for, as I said, the fault resets without having to start and run the engine (no engine running, no vacume, no operation )

Unfortunatly there is no "Autodata" on this and I am reluctant to buy a new EGR valve just to find out if (or if not) this is the problem!

Some sort of official documentation stating that "Fault code PXXXX will be set if voltage range falls outside 0.5-4.5 volts" would give me a great deal more confidence in ordering a new part!

Re: Ford Transit (Pick up)-EGR fault s

Posted by Keith Geach on January 27, 2010, 5:53 pm, in reply to "Re: Ford Transit (Pick up)-EGR fault s"
Message modified by board administrator January 28, 2010, 3:08 pm

Why not try holding it at 0.55v with mityvac and see if code clears, as long as it is not looking for a plausibilty check, may give you a clue.
Or use resistance box and fool it.

Re: Ford Transit (Pick up)-EGR fault s

Posted by Paul Howd <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT5151' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on January 27, 2010, 7:13 pm, in reply to "Re: Ford Transit (Pick up)-EGR fault s"
Paul Howd

That one occured to me just after my last post (But thanks for suggesting it, It might not have done)

I will try it tomorrow.

But this whole buisness highlights a more general issue.

It would be REALLY USEFULL if we could have access to some sort of handbook on what the fault setting stratagies actually are!

(And I mean something a bit more specific than the descriptions given in Autodata)

Paul

Re: Ford Transit (Pick up)-EGR fault s

Posted by Tony Attwood <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=ukat3025' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on January 27, 2010, 9:53 pm, in reply to "Re: Ford Transit (Pick up)-EGR fault s"
Tony Attwood

As someone who has just got into diagnostics, more through necessity than choice, I support that thought. Although I think this publication would be several meters thick, due to the many manufacturers and model variants. Still, we live in hope .. .. or quickly learn !!

Every day is a school day !!
Cheers, Tony.

Re: Ford Transit (Pick up)-EGR fault s

Posted by keith geach <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT5403' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on January 27, 2010, 10:27 pm, in reply to "Re: Ford Transit (Pick up)-EGR fault s"
Keith Geach

The readings you want are fully closed 0.5v and fully open 3.8 - 4.0v.
Sorry but the only way to get them is though R&D nobody is going too give them too us.

Re: Ford Transit (Pick up)-EGR fault s

Posted by Tony Attwood <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=ukat3025' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on January 30, 2010, 9:48 pm, in reply to "Re: Ford Transit (Pick up)-EGR fault s"

Well Paul, further to your thoughts & wishes regarding 'Fault code PXXXX will be set if voltage range falls outside x.xx'

I was looking through the Esi of my KTS & stumbled across the following .. ..

" Lambda sensor bank 1, sensor 1.
If voltage values are constant:

Open circuit at: 0.4 .. 0.5 v
Short to positive at: 1.105 v
Short to ground at: 0.0 v "

So it would seem at least some diagnostic tools have some of the info required in them.
You just need to find it !!

I'm sure that falls under the 'Research' part of R&D, Kieth.

.

Cheers, Tony.

Re: Ford Transit (Pick up)-EGR fault s

Posted by mark Carter <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT1428' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on January 31, 2010, 12:30 am, in reply to "Re: Ford Transit (Pick up)-EGR fault s"
Mark Carter

Posting a fix would be good.

Regards mark.

Modern cars, Its all wizardry and witchcraft

Re: Ford Transit (Pick up)-EGR fault s

Posted by Keith Geach on January 31, 2010, 1:41 pm, in reply to "Re: Ford Transit (Pick up)-EGR fault s"
Message modified by board administrator February 1, 2010, 1:48 pm

Tony
Do I take it you don't like R&D then and rely on data that is on discs, I find this lets you down to often.
The basic principles are usually there but is accurate data?

Re: Ford Transit (Pick up)-EGR fault s

Posted by Tony Attwood <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=ukat3025' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on January 31, 2010, 2:22 pm, in reply to "Re: Ford Transit (Pick up)-EGR fault s"

Hi Keith,
No, not at all. You may have taken me in the wrong context.
I was remarking that a lot of info IS available on some diagnostic tools, although you may have to look for it.
As I said, I stumbled across the given info when I was reseaching another isssue.
Hence the tenuous link to your " the only way to get them is though R&D " post.

Cheers, Tony.

Re: Ford Transit (Pick up)-EGR fault s

Posted by Keith Geach on January 31, 2010, 3:36 pm, in reply to "Re: Ford Transit (Pick up)-EGR fault s"
Message modified by board administrator February 1, 2010, 1:49 pm

Tony
No problem, yes some data is hidden away and sometimes under a vehicle with similar system / engine.

Re: Ford Transit (Pick up)-EGR fault s

Posted by Tony Sefton <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT5581' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on February 1, 2010, 9:48 pm, in reply to "Re: Ford Transit (Pick up)-EGR fault s"
Tony Sefton

I Checked one of these today, And Both the Original one and a New one checked out at 1.45v Closed and 4.45V Open.

( I also expected to see about 0.5Volts closed )

So 0 volts is going to log it as Short to ground.

Usually these fail when partly open and you see the voltage drop off as you start to apply vacuum.

H.T.H Tony.

Re: Ford Transit (Pick up)-EGR fault s

Posted by Keith Geach on February 2, 2010, 8:12 am, in reply to "Re: Ford Transit (Pick up)-EGR fault s"
Message modified by board administrator February 2, 2010, 3:10 pm

Tony
The 2 I have here read 0.55v and 3.8-4.0v.

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