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Renault Traffic 1.9 DCI 2003 - Non start after filter and heater plug change #

Posted by dave mc gee on January 9, 2009, 10:54 pm

( Optional ) ECU Type: Bosch injection system
( Optional ) Scanner Used: Snap on Modis

Hi lads,
I have this non starter towed in from another garage,they have changed heater plugs and fuel filter.The low pressure pump is working fine,i have a common rail pressure of 80 bar at the start of cranking which falls to 7 bar after approx 10 seconds.I tried to do a leak off test but i was getting no fuel in any of the bottles so i decided to scope the injectors.I have no signal to any of the injectors.When doing a code read at the begining,there was about 7 codes which i put down to the other garages testing,but the only reoccurring code is for "air flow engine running".
Can anyone shed some light on this,will the injectors not "fire" if the rail pressure is low?
Any help or ideas welcome

Re: RenaultTraffic 1.9 DCI 2003 ** non start**

Posted by Ian Baxter <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT1560' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on January 10, 2009, 7:29 am, in reply to "RenaultTraffic 1.9 DCI 2003 ** non start**"
Ian Baxter

Hello Dave,
Was the vehicle running before the other garage fitted the fuel filter? As I have done a couple of these where the filter has been rebuilt incorrectly and the sealing ring is in the wrong place.
HTH

Ian.

Re: RenaultTraffic 1.9 DCI 2003 ** non start**

Posted by dave mc gee <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT1044' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on January 10, 2009, 1:36 pm, in reply to "Re: RenaultTraffic 1.9 DCI 2003 ** non start**"

Ian,
It was cutting out and intermittently not starting so they tried a filter,it is fitted correctly.
Any other ideas?
Cheers.
P.S. You were up early for a Saturday morning !

Cheers,
Dave.

Re: RenaultTraffic 1.9 DCI 2003 ** non start**

Posted by Mark Carter <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT1428' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on January 10, 2009, 5:28 pm, in reply to "Re: RenaultTraffic 1.9 DCI 2003 ** non start**"

Hi, I guess that your vehicle is fitted with a CP1 Bosch system? and not the later CP3 system? if so;

The ECU will not fire the Injectors until the rail pressure has reached approx 120 bar.

The 80 bar you mention has some significance as it is the internal spring pressure of the DRV.

Have a look at the archives for other posts that I have replied to before with regard to this type of problem.

Regards Mark.

Modern cars, Its all wizardry and witchcraft

Re: RenaultTraffic 1.9 DCI 2003 ** non start**

Posted by dave mc gee <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT1044' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on January 12, 2009, 9:45 am, in reply to "Re: RenaultTraffic 1.9 DCI 2003 ** non start**"

Thanks Mark,
I have tried the archives with no luck,this is the CP1 sustem,i have limited info on this system,only autodata,so i will have to dig deeper,i will scope the DRV and see whats going on there,Any other thoughts?
Thanks again

Cheers,
Dave.

Re: RenaultTraffic 1.9 DCI 2003 ** non start**

Posted by Mark Carter <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT1428' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on January 12, 2009, 10:06 am, in reply to "Re: RenaultTraffic 1.9 DCI 2003 ** non start**"
Mark Carter

Phone me on 01747 870258

Regards Mark.

Modern cars, Its all wizardry and witchcraft

Re: RenaultTraffic 1.9 DCI 2003 ** non start**

Posted by Mark Carter <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT1428' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on January 12, 2009, 9:07 pm, in reply to "Re: RenaultTraffic 1.9 DCI 2003 ** non start**"
Mark Carter

I think that you have got a CP3 system fitted on the vehicle.
please let me know which one is fitted as they are very different in operation.

Regards Mark.

Modern cars, Its all wizardry and witchcraft

Re: RenaultTraffic 1.9 DCI 2003 ** non start**

Posted by dave mc gee <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT1044' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on January 12, 2009, 9:24 pm, in reply to "Re: RenaultTraffic 1.9 DCI 2003 ** non start**"

Hi Mark,
Sorry,I didn't get a chance to ring you back today,i checked the fuel pressure between the filter and the hp pump,i only have .5 bar under cranking so i have ordered a new genuine pump which i should have tomorrow.
I thought it was the cp1 system but not sure,how can i check ?
I will ring you again tomorrow when i fit the new pump and check the low fuel pressure again.
Thanks for your valuable information today.
Chat soon.

Cheers,
Dave.

Re: RenaultTraffic 1.9 DCI 2003 ** non start**

Posted by Tony Sefton <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT5581' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on January 13, 2009, 8:23 am, in reply to "Re: RenaultTraffic 1.9 DCI 2003 ** non start**"
Tony Sefton

Hi Dave. If its a CP3 pump, ( thats the only type i have ever come across on a Traffic or Vivaro but there may be some CP1's about that i haven't seen) I think it will have a small alluminium pump bolted to the rear of the main H.P Pump, and doesn't usually have an electric low pressure pump. ( i wonder if it could have a small lift pump just to prime the system ) ???

On the CP 3's the shaft driving the low pressure pump breaks off which then causes the vehicle to not start. Which can easily be checked by unbolting the low pressure pump and having a look. Most laguna's 2001 on also use the CP3 pump as well.

H.T.H. Tony.

Re: RenaultTraffic 1.9 DCI 2003 ** non start**

Posted by Glyn Morgan <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT2543' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on January 13, 2009, 11:43 am, in reply to "Re: RenaultTraffic 1.9 DCI 2003 ** non start**"
Glyn Morgan

Hi Dave,

We had a running fault on a 2002 Trafic DCI.

With a low pressure gauge between the filter and pump there was a priming pressure from the in tank pump of approx one bar (koeo).

With it running there was a negative pressure (sorry can't remember the reading) on the gauge from the vacuum pump mounted on the rear of the HP pump. As Tony says check the pump drive.HTH

Glyn

Re: RenaultTraffic 1.9 DCI 2003 ** non start**

Posted by dave mc gee <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT1044' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on January 13, 2009, 9:56 pm, in reply to "Re: RenaultTraffic 1.9 DCI 2003 ** non start**"

Thanks for the replies lads,didnt get a chance to look at this van today,under pressure,might get a chance tomorrow and let you know how i get on.

Cheers,
Dave.

Re: RenaultTraffic 1.9 DCI 2003 ** non start**

Posted by dave mc gee on January 16, 2009, 6:54 pm, in reply to "Re: RenaultTraffic 1.9 DCI 2003 ** non start**"
Message modified by board administrator January 17, 2009, 5:48 pm

Hi Lads,
Tony,your a gem ! you were bang on the money! The shaft is broken so i have removed the pump and sent it for repair,i wont post this as a fix until its running,which should be next week.
Thanks to all for your replies.

Re: RenaultTraffic 1.9 DCI 2003 ** non start**

Posted by Dave Hill <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT2783' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on January 17, 2009, 8:15 pm, in reply to "Re: RenaultTraffic 1.9 DCI 2003 ** non start**"

Hi Tony

I am a little confused

I had a 2003 Vivaro recently with a faulty high pressure pump. When we dropped the fuel tank to clean it, there was a low pressure pump mounted inside the swirl pot. This vehicle also had the "Gear type" low pressure pump piggy backing the main high pressure pump.

It would be nice to learn the various pump arrangements that these common rail systems employ.

Cheers

Dave

Re: RenaultTraffic 1.9 DCI 2003 ** non start**

Posted by Denis Bowen <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT1722' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on January 17, 2009, 11:50 pm, in reply to "Re: RenaultTraffic 1.9 DCI 2003 ** non start**"
Denis Bowen

Hi Dave,

As far as i know the low pressure electric pump in the tank is not supposed to be there !! or at least the ECM software should be programmed not to power it.
Autodata says to disconnect he fuel relay for the following engine ECM's

:- F9Q-760, 82 00 325 719/82 00 389 519/82 00 380 647 (GEX)
:- F9Q-762, 82 00 325 720/82 00 391 179
:- F9Q-730, 82 00 355 236

The pump running continously causes rattling engine at idle !

Denis

Re: RenaultTraffic 1.9 DCI 2003 ** non start**

Posted by dave mc gee <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT1044' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on January 19, 2009, 9:47 pm, in reply to "Re: RenaultTraffic 1.9 DCI 2003 ** non start**"

Hi lads,
As far as i am aware,it is only a primer pump and not a low pressure pump.I had the same pressure with my new pump as i had with the old one,only .5 bar which is way down for a low pressure pump,i would think it should be about 2.5 bar.
H.T.H.

Cheers,
Dave.

Fixed #

Posted by dave mc gee on January 22, 2009, 9:24 pm, in reply to "Re: RenaultTraffic 1.9 DCI 2003 ** non start**"
Message modified by board administrator January 23, 2009, 7:58 am

Evening all,
Got my pump back today and fitted it,fired up first thing and ran as sweet as a nut,except when driving.
I have code 19, air flow meter driving circuit.
Anyone come across this before ? My workshop laptop is out for repair with my autodata disc in the drive,how clever,so i have no info till Saturday morning and i would love to get this one back to its owner.
Any ideas or better code description ?
Thanks again.

### ITS BACK ### CODE 72

Posted by dave mc gee <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT1044' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on January 24, 2009, 9:58 pm, in reply to "Fixed #"

Hi lads,
As you can see from above,its back.
I had to give it back to the other garage as their customer was screaming for it.
It still has the air flow meter fault and it now has code 72,rail pressure low.It is hard to start but idles just fine.I have been told that it cuts out about 6-7 times in the morning and then picks up and is ok,but down on power.
It only came in at 6pm so i didn't get to do any more than a code read,it was a long week.
Any ideas ?
Cheers,
Dave.

Cheers,
Dave.

Re: ### ITS BACK ### CODE 72

Posted by Tony Sefton <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT5581' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on January 25, 2009, 10:14 am, in reply to "### ITS BACK ### CODE 72"
Tony Sefton

>>>>>> I had to give it back to the other garage as their customer was screaming for it. <<<<<

Isn't it always the case. ?? And It must be Your fault Cos you Took some money off him for Fitting the high Pressure pump, And He will also think that it might not have been the high pressure pump in the first place cos it still aint fixed properly. ?? ( Even though you know it was broke in 2 )

And I bet there was Nowt Wrong with it until the Other Garage fitted the Glow plugs and Diesel filter. ???

Not that it was Causing Problems in the first place, thats why he took it in for glow plugs and a filter. ??

And he won't expect getting another bill now for more labour and an air flow meter that it neded in the first place and an injector or 2 that may now be leaking since you got the pressure back up to spec. ??

It's Nothing to do with them being a load of unreliable crap with an unreliable fuel system with shocking wiring is it. ??

To Be fair to Bosch, The System is Brilliant, Its just that it shouldn't be running on mucky diesel dragged out of the bottom of the tanks at the fuel station. They ought to run on some special super fuel Designed by N.A.S.A.

They seem to have a life span of around 80K - 100k miles. ?? Although I know someone will know of one thats done 250k without a problem.

( anyone really know what the true life span of these systems would be assuming that they never got any dirty or contaminated fuel through the system. ) ??

At 6 years old, if its done a fair bit of mileage with little maintenance its nearing the end of its usefull/reasonably reliable life without spending lots of money to keep it on the road. And Its not just expensive parts, but the time required to test and replace all those parts, ( don't let the guy think its only got the odd fault cos it will be riddled with intermitent faults and will take ages to find them all as they crop up one after the other. )

And to be fair to renault the Bodies are Brilliant.

Ohhh And Watch out Just in case he puts a complaint into one of the Organistations about the cost of the repairs or the time its been off the road, as that might cost you a few hundred pounds as well.

And You Really want to carry on Fixing Motor Vehicles. ??

I Now Always Prepare the Customer and warn them That I will have a go at fixing the Vehicle, As long as they have got the money to throw at it, to buy ALL Necessary parts, to fix the Present faults and then to not mind coming back in the near future if there are any more intermittent faults crop up. ( as they usually do )

Not that they Remember what you said a month later when it comes back with various fault codes and intermittently going into limp mode.

( All you get off them then is :- "WELL it was Oreight Before I brought in Here" its never been a problem before.

Yours Pessimistically. Tony.

Re: ### ITS BACK ### CODE 72

Posted by Mark Mcgrath <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT2806' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on January 25, 2009, 11:36 am, in reply to "Re: ### ITS BACK ### CODE 72"
Mark McGrath

Hmm you seem to have a very jaded opinion of customers Tony

Re: Renault Traffic 1.9 DCI 2003 - Non start after filter and heater plug change #

Posted by Bryan Smith <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT5330' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on January 11, 2010, 5:34 pm, in reply to "Renault Traffic 1.9 DCI 2003 - Non start after filter and heater plug change #"
Bryan Smith

Hi Dave,
Did you get to the bottom of the code 19? (MAFF short circuit to + engine running?).
I have one in with this code as well as 72 - Fuel pressure info - pressure low, and 83 - Fuel pressure solenoid valve open or short circuit.
I have already found the broken shaft on the low pressure pump so while I get that sorted I am trying to find out if the code 19 is relevant. I have removed the ecu and checked all the wiring that I can see with no signs of chaffing anywhere.
regards, Bryan.

Re: Renault Traffic 1.9 DCI 2003 - Non start after filter and heater plug change #

Posted by Dave Mc Gee <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT1044' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on January 11, 2010, 8:00 pm, in reply to "Re: Renault Traffic 1.9 DCI 2003 - Non start after filter and heater plug change #"

Hi Brian,
A new air flow meter cured the code 19 and also gave it a lot more power.
The code 72 was never repaired as the chap traded it in somewhere,i think.
HTH.

Cheers,
Dave.

Re: Renault Traffic 1.9 DCI 2003 - Non start after filter and heater plug change #

Posted by Bryan Smith <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT5330' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on January 12, 2010, 8:54 am, in reply to "Re: Renault Traffic 1.9 DCI 2003 - Non start after filter and heater plug change #"
Bryan Smith

Thanks Dave,
I will look more closely when its running again. I did think it must have two faults but thought its a bit of a coincidence that you had the same codes.
I think that as soon as its running again this one may go the same way. Last years servicing was over 1K and its not off to a good start this year.
Regards, Bryan.

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