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Bosch common rail injector overhaul (excess leakoff) #

Posted by Phil Dunmore on March 25, 2008, 7:01 pm
Message modified by board administrator September 7, 2009, 2:41 pm

Interested to know what is actually involved in rectifying excess leakoff. Currently use two different diesel specialists, both an hour away in oppisite directions, decision is made on fastest turnaround.

If we could do this ourself it would save 24 hours every time.

Also, can it be done with injector in situ? Have one siezed tight in a Trafic! Trying to get this one out without damage has made me aware how simple they are to dismantle, just need a 10mm allen key with a hole in the end, security bit style.

Re: Bosch common rail injector overhaul (excess leakoff)

Posted by michael mcdowell <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT1017' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 22, 2008, 9:20 pm, in reply to "Bosch common rail injector overhaul (excess leakoff)"
Michael McDowell

i have looked for same reason ,been to harrogate today to mechanex show spoke to db diesels
worth speaking to tool is approx £500 very helpfull tel no 01535 670002

Re: Bosch common rail injector overhaul (excess leakoff)

Posted by Phil Dunmore <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT5515' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 25, 2008, 10:31 pm, in reply to "Re: Bosch common rail injector overhaul (excess leakoff)"
Philip Dunmore

Thanks Michael, will look into it.

Re: Bosch common rail injector overhaul (excess leakoff)

Posted by martin wainwright <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT1293' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 27, 2008, 10:38 pm, in reply to "Re: Bosch common rail injector overhaul (excess leakoff)"
Martin Wainwright

Hi Phil, I was helping David at DB Diesels at the mechanex show at Harrogate last week were I met Michael McDowell (nice to meet you). I also have an interest in injector back leakage and I have been stripping injectors and fitting seal kits most of this weekend it’s easy for me because I have the tooling and access to test equipment to check my results.
You need to remove the injector because it cannot be done in situ. You will then need to replace the seals which are not expensive (about £17.00 from DB Diesels which will service 10 injectors) but you may also need to remake the seat of the ball. This is the part that allows some back leakage to return to tank when the solenoid is operated. It also has to seal when there is no injection or the back leakage will continue to flow.

D B Diesels also do a tool to repair this. It operates by connecting to your workshop air-line and is not expensive but you will need to contact them at this address info@dbdiesels.co.uk

Also if you have problems removing the injector you can rent a hydraulic tool from them that will do the job.
There is no reason back leakage problems can’t be sorted out in house with some investment in tools and some know how. If anyone needs more information post your e mail address or e mail me at martin@wainwright-bros.co.uk and I will get back to you.
Best regards. Martin

Re: Bosch common rail injector overhaul (excess leakoff)

Posted by Chris Shelton <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT5326' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on September 6, 2009, 7:40 pm, in reply to "Re: Bosch common rail injector overhaul (excess leakoff)"

Hi Martin,
Could I take you up on your offer for info on curing back leakage on HDI injectors.

My email address is cjshelton@btinternet.com

Thank you.

Re: Bosch common rail injector overhaul (excess leakoff)

Posted by martin wainwright <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT1293' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on September 12, 2009, 4:23 pm, in reply to "Re: Bosch common rail injector overhaul (excess leakoff)"
Martin Wainwright

Hi Chris I’m looking in to publishing a video on the subject, I will try and post it if I can finger out how. There’s a chance it may be in www.autoinform.co.uk first
Martin.

Re: Bosch common rail injector overhaul (excess leakoff)

Posted by Nick Evans <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT1812' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on September 16, 2009, 12:58 pm, in reply to "Re: Bosch common rail injector overhaul (excess leakoff)"
Nick Evans

Hi Martin,

I would also like to take up you offer of more info !

My email is Info@evansgarage.co.uk

Thanks
Nick

Re: Bosch common rail injector overhaul (excess leakoff)

Posted by Roy ritchie <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT5115' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on September 28, 2009, 12:17 pm, in reply to "Re: Bosch common rail injector overhaul (excess leakoff)"
Roy Ritchie

Hi guys thought i would fill you in on some facts about common rail injector repair.I have a friend who is a bosch diesel center as well as a main agent for DENSO,ZEXEL,DELPHI,and STANADYNE he has been repairing bosch common rail injectors for over 5 years and gave me an insight to what is involved. Common rail injectors are very difficult to repair PROPERLY and should only be attempted by authorized repairers and not non genuine guys like darwin diesels and David Braebrook (db diesels )as he has tested them on his bosch 815 test bench and found them to fail on nearly all tests not just leakage as they have not been repaired the correct way and would have caused engine damage after a period of time.High back leakage can be caused not just by the seal but usually due to the pilot valve seat being worn where the ball sits.Once you have stripped the injector the cap nut must be repaced along with the ball, seal, pins(2) and straining screw as on assembley these are torqued then set to a manufacture angle torque this is the define setting value and all injectors are different failure to get this correct will cause pre injection to happen along with light load fuel figures to be out.He also assembles them in a micro cabbinet as cleaniness is the most important factor. Once assembled he then tests them on his 815 bench where they are tested up to 1700 bar and once fully tested a new IMA code is written by the bench for coding purposes.As he does hundreds of these a month i get a very competitive price usually around £90 each so why get yourselves into a mess trying to fix these on the cheap .Hope this answers any questions you have on trying to have a go yourselves.

Re: Bosch common rail injector overhaul (excess leakoff)

Posted by Phil Dunmore <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT5515' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on September 30, 2009, 10:38 pm, in reply to "Re: Bosch common rail injector overhaul (excess leakoff)"
Philip Dunmore

Thanks Roy,

Excellent informative post. By chance, havn't seen many problem injectors for a while now.
Time was the big thing for me...although a little extra profit never goes amis

Phil

Re: Bosch common rail injector overhaul (excess leakoff)

Posted by martin wainwright <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT1293' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 12, 2009, 7:39 pm, in reply to "Re: Bosch common rail injector overhaul (excess leakoff)"
Martin Wainwright

Hi Roy, I agree with 90% of the points you brought in your post, there are 2 things that bother me. As he does hundreds of these a month I get a very competitive price usually around £90.You friend is fitting a new nozzle assembly, a new cap nut new pins and ball and seal kit and then run the injector on an Bosch 815 test bench witch will of cost over £120.000.00 witch will take over a hour. Then factor in the cost of the data from Bosch and the running costs, your friend is not making any money the fingers don’t add up and corners will be cut. With investment like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubsUlW8XXOQ you need to make serious money.
Common rail injectors are very difficult to repair PROPERLY and should only be attempted by authorized repairers and not non genuine guys like Darwin diesels and David Braebrook (db diesels )as he has tested them on his Bosch 815 test bench and found them to fail on nearly all tests. I can’t comment with the lads at Darwin, other that I have fit injectors from them years ago with no problems and I have been to there workshop and they seem to prosper so they must be doing something right.
As for David (db diesels) his background is in the Diesel industry he reached a senior position at MI before he established his small company witch concentrates on supplying specialist test equipment and tooling to the diesel industry. David has never reconditioned any injectors he is a middle man that just uses his contacts to supply them, most of them have been tested on manufacturers test equipment. This is the point I’m making when I wrote corners will be cut, like you commented he has tested them on his Bosch 815 test bench and found them to fail on nearly all tests.

If you want an insight to the unique way we look at injectors register to Autoinform at http://www.autoinform.co.uk/ Best regards, Martin.

Re: Bosch common rail injector overhaul (excess leakoff)

Posted by Roy ritchie <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT5115' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 18, 2009, 11:32 am, in reply to "Re: Bosch common rail injector overhaul (excess leakoff)"
Roy Ritchie

Hi Martin spoke to my mate who has the Bosch Diesel Center and told him to look at your response. To say he was not happy was an understatement. As a Bosch master tech he finds it insulting to say he was cutting corners to do them at that price. He tells me he runs 6 light vehicle injectors at time for most makes and has a second bench running commercial injectors which are alot more expensive as he can only do one at a time and is in the process of ordering an eps 200 to do the none coded injectors so he can free up the second 815 for doing 6 at a time.At £540 every 6 he does and over £20,000 a week for the bench he says he's more than happy with his £120,000 original investment. As for cost of parts he says due to the volume he produces he gets a huge saving on parts from bosch. He also tells me Bosch have released full parts including body's and control valves which was the only down side with repairing crin 2.1 and 2.2 as this was a common failure and in the past was a bin job but unfortunately the new measuring equipment to do the job correctly is another £30,000 invetment but will still be doing them for under £100 each remember the price is + vat hope this calms him down Roy....

Re: Bosch common rail injector overhaul (excess leakoff)

Posted by martin wainwright <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk8/info/user=UKAT1293' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on February 21, 2010, 4:31 pm, in reply to "Re: Bosch common rail injector overhaul (excess leakoff)"

Hi Roy, £20,000 of injectors a week that's impassive , at a average of £100 each and he can repair 75% of injectors the first time and he can test 6 injectors at a time he will have 291 working hrs a week, they must be 5 of them working in a production line.
I visit a diesel shop with 3 Bosch 815 benches and a Delphi CRi-PC and 2 Delphi AVM2 PC benches plus other benches and they don’t repair that many injectors.
I only know of one major repairer that will do a batch of 500 injectors that they send to China for less the £100 each they have many 815 benches but they say the benches are to slow and they can’t make any money. Like your mate they use a cheaper quicker machine like the Bosch ESP 200, all the benches seem to be tied up with the more profitable pump re cons. Roy please pass on my apology’s to you mate for my comments , cutting corners, I was comparing him to others. If he is repairing and testing to the Bosch 815 standards he is producing a premium product, I just think he is selling his self short at less than £100.
Regards Martin.

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