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Any Front Wheel Bearing removal #

Posted by Paul Howd on July 1, 2011, 8:41 am

Year of Manufacture *: Any
Engine Size and Code *: Any

Just to let you know that the trick of running a MIG weld around the inside of a stuck bearing outer race really works! I just did this to a completly immovable bearing and after it cooled it virtually dropped out. (Just took a very gentle tap, little more than the weight of the mallet!)

Re: Any Front Wheel Bearing removal #

Posted by Craig Smith <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk11/info/user=ukat3248' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on September 30, 2011, 11:30 pm, in reply to "Any Front Wheel Bearing removal #"
Craig Smith

I've just removed a 2002 transit front bearing with my "GAS AXE" three nice clean cuts and nothing jumping out of my press to take your head off!!! After cooling the hub down and a quick clean up the new bearing pressed on "like a dream" CS

Re: Any Front Wheel Bearing removal #

Posted by aidan birley <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk11/info/user=UKAT2879' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on October 9, 2011, 3:46 pm, in reply to "Re: Any Front Wheel Bearing removal #"

Craig

I assume you refer to cutting the inner race from center hub ? Do you use acetylene or propane? we switched to propane to save bottle rental but find it much harder to make clean cuts.

The real test of skill with a gas axe is to remove the inner race from the shaft without damaging the bearing or shaft i.e. so the bearing race can be re-used ! If have I had not seen this done, I would not believe it possible !

Cheers Aidan

Re: Any Front Wheel Bearing removal #

Posted by Tommy Forrest <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk11/info/user=UKAT1706' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on October 10, 2011, 8:56 pm, in reply to "Any Front Wheel Bearing removal #"

Hi Paul

Totally agree, I have used this method of running a bead of MIG weld to remove bearings a number of times and have always found it to work perfectly.

Tommy

Link: Seized Injector Removal

Re: Any Front Wheel Bearing removal #

Posted by Craig Smith <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk11/info/user=ukat3248' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on October 23, 2011, 9:34 pm, in reply to "Re: Any Front Wheel Bearing removal #"

Hi Aidan
Think your getting your "races" mixed up

Nice clean cut in the outer race after the inner race and balls removed using Acetylene!! "I've never tried propane so can't help you there". Kia inner races seam welded to the shafts and I've had to cut loads of them off with no damage to the shafts. But unless your "Harry Potter" I really wouldn't recommend reusing a bearing track that you have heated !!!

Craig

Re: Any Front Wheel Bearing removal #

Posted by aidan birley <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk11/info/user=UKAT2879' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on January 14, 2012, 3:25 pm, in reply to "Re: Any Front Wheel Bearing removal #"

I guess Craig thought I was joking with my previous post >>>>> The real test of skill with a gas axe is to remove the inner race from the shaft without damaging the bearing or shaft <<<<<

By chance I came across an old HATZ industrial diesel engine manual when clearing out some old paper work yesterday.

This is the engine type that I saw my uncle use this method, sure enough he re used the crank shaft roller bearings, the engine completed many year service with no problem. I have copied a small section here

Re: Any Front Wheel Bearing removal #

Posted by Craig <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk11/info/user=ukat3248' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on January 19, 2012, 12:00 am, in reply to "Re: Any Front Wheel Bearing removal #"

Kewl advise Aidan!! Now tell me how you plan to heat a bearing race to 80c using a 1500c cutting torch!!!!

Re: Any Front Wheel Bearing removal #

Posted by aidan birley <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk11/info/user=UKAT2879' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on January 19, 2012, 8:27 am, in reply to "Re: Any Front Wheel Bearing removal #"
Aidan Birley

Craig

Trust me I have seen this done by a very skilled engineer exactly as described and it does work !!! bearing race removed and reused with no damage - Only tool used oxy acetylene burner !

I dont claim that I could do it confidently, but then I am only a mechanic.

There is a technique, which is why I stress you need an engineers knowledge to do it.

Cheers Aidan

Re: Any Front Wheel Bearing removal #

Posted by Peter Warman <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk11/info/user=Peter+Warman' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on January 19, 2012, 9:03 am, in reply to "Re: Any Front Wheel Bearing removal #"
Peter Warman - Administrator

I would be very cautious about using heat on a bearing you are going to use again

All bearing surfaces are case hardened or chromium plated for maximum hardness. If you over heat (blue or cherry red) then as the metal cools it will "normalise" which means the hardening has been removed and will wear very quickly

Peter

Re: Any Front Wheel Bearing removal #

Posted by Dave Harney <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk11/info/user=UKAT2603' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on January 19, 2012, 9:31 am, in reply to "Re: Any Front Wheel Bearing removal #"
Dave Harney

Hi,
Wouldn't this be the same as when fitting flywheel ring gear ?
You heat it up until it will melt solder ! hot enough to fit but not excessive to damage it.

Regards
Dave

You can trim a sheeps wool many times, but you can only fleece it once !

Re: Any Front Wheel Bearing removal #

Posted by Peter Warman <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk11/info/user=Peter+Warman' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on January 19, 2012, 10:53 am, in reply to "Re: Any Front Wheel Bearing removal #"
Peter Warman - Administrator

Different types of metal grades and heat treatments

Bearings will be of a high grade steel that is heated to the correct temperature (ranging from blue to red) then cooled quickly usually in some form of oil, this will leave a case hardened surface of say five thousands of an inch, once this wears through the bearing is worn out (pitted and noisy). The metal is also usually quite brittle. Technology has moved on and the steel can be mixed with chromium, once polished it gives a good hard wearing surface, once the polished surface is breached it's worn out. Using excessive heat will mean it may not cool down to its original highly machined tolerances

With ring gears the metal is usually of the cast type so it can be heated to cherry red and lowered onto a flywheel, it will not have been pre heat treated or hardened, hence they wear

Peter

PS: Slightly off topic: I think the lack of basic engineering skills is also a problem with the young apprentices and the likes of fast fit fitters. I have seen manifold studs etc snapped off with air guns and the blank looks from the fitter

They have no concept of different metals, is the stud hardened with copper nuts......then you can probably use an air gun. Is the stud mild steel with mild steel nuts......then proceed with caution. Over tightening of mild steel nuts and bolts that snap off......we have all seen it

Re: Any Front Wheel Bearing removal #

Posted by ian(n) <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk11/info/user=UKAT5546' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on January 19, 2012, 8:44 pm, in reply to "Re: Any Front Wheel Bearing removal #"
Ian Nicholas

Re: ring gear, you should heat it using a temperature crayon (which melts at the right temp)
if you haven't got this facility (including an oven)

clamp the ring gear with vise-grips, put grips in vise, heat ring gear from inside-out (so minimal 'thermal disturbance' is caused to teeth)

just my humble opinion
ian(n)
p.s.
yes i use the mig method where no bearings are to be re-used.

Re: Any Front Wheel Bearing removal #

Posted by Craig Smith <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk11/info/user=ukat3248' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on January 23, 2012, 11:09 pm, in reply to "Re: Any Front Wheel Bearing removal #"

I find it a bit scarry that the tech colleage these kids are going to hasn't bothered to tell them about how bearing surfaces and ball races work. I still burst every one I remove open to look for the area showing damage, causing the noise. Trust Paul, Peter, Dave, Tommy, Ian and Me. If you heat the race up with anything other than sunlight!! It's Stuffed !!
P.s. Ian your showing your again giving ring gear fitting instructions

Re: Any Front Wheel Bearing removal #

Posted by aidan birley <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk11/info/user=UKAT2879' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on January 25, 2012, 6:53 pm, in reply to "Re: Any Front Wheel Bearing removal #"
Aidan Birley

Craig
>>>>> Trust Paul, Peter, Dave, Tommy, Ian and Me. If you heat the race up with anything other than sunlight!! It's Stuffed !! <<<<

I am not sure all those expressed that view!!

I think you have missed my point I am clearly not recommending that you heat bearing & re use in a regular basis, clearly a risky business unless very skilled and even it is not normally worth while.I was merely pointing out that it can be done.

I am a bit disappointed you dispute that it can be done thou , the Germans have a good reputation as mechanical engineers and i am sure that the would not recommend the method in there manual (HATZ industrial diesels engine ) if it could not be carried out satisfactorily.

My dear old uncle who obtained an engineering degree at loughborough university and spent entire working life in aircraft design industry, had no problem with this method ! read the manual, understood it, carried out, job done !!

The method is simple when you know how

Cheers Aidan

Re: Any Front Wheel Bearing removal #

Posted by Craig <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk11/info/user=ukat3248' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on January 25, 2012, 11:06 pm, in reply to "Re: Any Front Wheel Bearing removal #"

Hi Aidan
Just wondered which technical college you attended??

Thank
Craig

Re: Any Front Wheel Bearing removal #

Posted by Bryan Smith <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk11/info/user=UKAT5330' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 16, 2012, 4:58 pm, in reply to "Any Front Wheel Bearing removal #"

I have been a bit busy lately so didn't realise that this thread had restarted (and stopped again?). I have been using the mig method of removing outer races for many years (see my post on hints and tips prior to this thread starting). I have also been cutting the inner races off of the hub with oxy/acetelyne for just as long. It may seem as though it's a bit of an art but it really isn't that difficult. I have heard it referred to as "washing" and if you try it you will realise why. It's because the bearing virtually runs off of the hub like water when the temp is about right. I normally use my auto welding visor in the off or slight tint mode so I can see whats happening. A good way to practise this is to try and cut a nut off of a bolt without damaging the thread (yes, it can be done!). As far as warming bearings prior to removal, I would not recommend doing this with bearings that are going to be re-used except with a very small blowlamp so that there is no change of colour. The Hatz advice I believe is quite old (and I have also worked on these engines) and would have been quite normal in the days when we repaired things instead of replacing them. It seems to me that modern cars are manufactured in the same way as kids toys in the fact that it's all plastic and electronic, so I now think very carefully before the gas axe comes out.
Regards,
Bryan.

Re: Any Front Wheel Bearing removal #

Posted by aidan birley <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk11/info/user=UKAT2879' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 18, 2012, 8:03 pm, in reply to "Re: Any Front Wheel Bearing removal #"

Hi Bryan

I agree in general with all you say, I to have cut bearing & nuts of as you describe with oxy act and as you say not that difficult.

It is noticeably more difficult with oxy / propane mix that we now use ( to avoid bottle rental charge)This i am sure is due to the less intense heat i.e. slower pre heat time, resulting more heat transfer across the joint and less temperature differential in the two components.This difference in temperature is the key I sure to the washing effect we see.

The temperature differential issue is the reason I would possibly disagree with the suggestion of using a lower temperature blow gun for the HATZ bearing removal trick.

The key to success is applying heat quickly so the race expands, but heat does not have time to transfer across the joint and heat the shaft, clearly if both expand it wont release.

The method used by my uncle on the HATZ crank was to clamp a center punch vertically in a vice to act as a center to turn the crank on. the crank was orientated so that the race to be removed would fall under gravity when free.

I was instructed to turn the crank at uniform speed of approx 1 rev every 2 seconds. when happy with shaft rotation he apply heat with a pre lighted oxy act welding torch, he specifically selected a large (size 25 ) nozzle.

To my surprise the race dropped free after just a couple of seconds ! absolutely no indication of discoloration from heat.

You are correct in saying that this manual is quite old, it was about 30 year ago that we rebuilt this engine. It then ran for many years with the reclaimed bearing.

My original comment on this was intended to be tong in cheek, but also point out that what would seem obvious is not always true.

Clearly I would not suggest any one re uses a bearing in the manner unless it was. a) as in this case recommended my the manufacture. b ) the technician knowledgeable in the procedure.

The cost of bearings has fallen over the years so I guess salvaging a bearing for reuse would never be an issue nowadays.

Cheers Aidan

p.s Craig

not sure the relevance of your last post, I only scanned the manual,

I did not write it.!! But if you do want to know 5 minutes with Google will answer your question.

Re: Any Front Wheel Bearing removal #

Posted by Bryan Smith <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/ukautotalk11/info/user=UKAT5330' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 20, 2012, 11:38 pm, in reply to "Re: Any Front Wheel Bearing removal #"
Bryan Smith

Hi Aidan,
Yes you are quite right about too low a temp not heating things up quickly enough due to the heat transfer and can even sometimes make things worse. I think I was just trying to simplify it a little so that someone didn't go OTT and mess something up. I am no metallurgist so have to keep giving myself a reminder of what too much heat can do by throwing something else in the scrap bin

Regards,
Bryan.

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