Tesla's shock waves due to electrostatic induction from quenched disruptive discharges
Posted by Steve Berger on 2/20/2008, 8:08 pm
Bert,
Have you ever experienced shocks passing through your shields as described by N. Tesla? These shock waves were described as being able to pass through even metals which seem hard to believe. These events occured during his experiments with quenched discharges (no reversals).
They are also noted in the old days during Edisons DC power systems.(In conjunction with N. Tesla's early career) In the time frame of a milliseconds after the closure of the mains, a corona would form. This was noted as being quite lethal.
Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
STeve
Re: Tesla's shock waves due to electrostatic induction from quenched disruptive discharges
--Previous Message-- : Bert, : : Have you ever experienced shocks passing through your shields as described : by N. Tesla? These shock waves were described as being able to pass : through even metals which seem hard to believe. These events occured : during his experiments with quenched discharges (no reversals). : : They are also noted in the old days during Edisons DC power systems.(In : conjunction with N. Tesla's early career) In the time frame of a : milliseconds after the closure of the mains, a corona would form. This was : noted as being quite lethal. : : Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. : : Thanks, : : STeve :
Hi Steve,
Do you know of any reports for these effects that come directly from Tesla's writings or from other writings from that period? If so, I would be VERY interested in reading them. These effects seem to be reported only in modern day accounts and "reinterpretations" of some of the work done by Tesla and others by folks selling Tesla/HAARP/conspiracy or Free Energy books.
For example, I have read about these fascinating effects within books authored by Gerry Vassilatos, or on web sites that refer to or copy sections from these same books. I have copies of his books since I often get asked about some of the "stranger" effects of pulsed or high frequency power, and his name keeps on popping up. Unfortunately, Mr. Vassilatos does not separate his own speculations, nor his (re)interpretation of facts that he's lifted from factual sources of the period. I have not been able to verify the above claims in any of Tesla's or other period writings, nor in the sources he references, in any documents of the period, nor in any modern day Tesla or pulsed power experiments. And, it must be mentioned, much of his "theory" about how Tesla Coil operate, spark gap operation, and quenching is simply wrong (both theoretically and experimentally). It should also be mentioned that modern day pulsed power equipment routinely works with unipolar high voltage and high current pulses (i.e., non-reversing) that have nanosecond and even subnanosecond risetimes. And the reported effects above are simply not observed.
I have not personally experienced or witnessed any of these effects, and I am unaware of any serious Tesla Coil researchers or pulsed power engineers/physicists who have either. I have quite an extensive collection of engineering and physics books and technical journals that go back to the early 1900's when both AC and DC power systems were being planned and designed. These cover the gory details where various engineering or safety problems were discussed and resolved. The effects above are not reported in these primary documents, nor are they reported as design or safety issues in today's AC OR DC low or high voltage electrical power systems or in high energy pulsed power systems, even though today's power and energy levels are orders of magnitude higher than that those used or even dreamed of at the turn of the previous century. Potentially dangerous high voltage surges can occur upon sudden current interruption (particularly in systems with substantial inductance) and the effect is well understood. However, corona formation upon "turn on" is not mentioned in any primary documents of the period for either DC or AC power systems.
My conclusion is that these effects are, for the most part, figments of Mr. Vassilatos's imagination. Or, perhaps his personal "reinterpretations" of some of Tesla's or other engineering documents of the period when colored by a "conspiracy theory" perspective. These accounts make for interesting, and even entertaining, reading. But don't put too much faith in their accuracy.
Sorry, but I call them as I see them...
Bert
Re: Tesla's shock waves due to electrostatic induction from quenched disruptive discharges
I am grateful for your post. But, I am disappointed.
I did read the Gerry Vassilatos book. The information contained had no references as to where he got it. I had doubts about its validity. But, it would sure be cool if what he mentions had some back up. Alas. I am disappointed.
But, even so, Tesla clearly mentions "radiant energies". In addition, there is Teslas concepts of longitudinal waves vs transverse waves. I believe he clearly stated his differences with that one. In contrast, his CS notes doesn't seem to be exclusive to DC disruptive discharges as he used AC sources or DC.
Tesla's statements that his transmitter was 10,000,000 hp maximum power was stated fairly clearly. I don't think Niagra falls power station was going to supply that. But, Gerry seems to have let his imagineering run wild with pieces of information in his book. Some of his discriptions are bordering on a soap opera quality.
There are though fairly numerous reports/documentation of Tesla's schist after his presentation in the royal society in London. They at first seemed to have welcomed him. In a relatively brief time, they viewed his work as nothing special. This is according to a couple of biographies I have read about him. There seems to have been a special relationship between him and Crookes however.
After reading Teslas paper on The Problem of Increasing human energy, I walked away with the feeling that he was simply trying to transmit power and information efficiently, at great distances and with out wires. Period. I believe he sited that perhaps oneday, a new way could be developed to produce/convert energy. More enigma. Ah well.
You read much of Mr. Dollards efforts?
Thank again,
Steve
--Previous Message-- : --Previous Message-- : Bert, : : Have you ever experienced shocks passing through your shields as described : by N. Tesla? These shock waves were described as being able to pass : through even metals which seem hard to believe. These events occured : during his experiments with quenched discharges (no reversals). : : They are also noted in the old days during Edisons DC power systems.(In : conjunction with N. Tesla's early career) In the time frame of a : milliseconds after the closure of the mains, a corona would form. This was : noted as being quite lethal. : : Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. : : Thanks, : : STeve : : : Hi Steve, : : Do you know of any reports for these effects that come directly from : Tesla's writings or from other writings from that period? If so, I would : be VERY interested in reading them. These effects seem to be reported only : in modern day accounts and "reinterpretations" of some of the : work done by Tesla and others by folks selling Tesla/HAARP/conspiracy or : Free Energy books. : : For example, I have read about these fascinating effects within books : authored by Gerry Vassilatos, or on web sites that refer to or copy : sections from these same books. I have copies of his books since I often : get asked about some of the "stranger" effects of pulsed or high : frequency power, and his name keeps on popping up. Unfortunately, Mr. : Vassilatos does not separate his own speculations, nor his : (re)interpretation of facts that he's lifted from factual sources of the : period. I have not been able to verify the above claims in any of Tesla's : or other period writings, nor in the sources he references, in any : documents of the period, nor in any modern day Tesla or pulsed power : experiments. And, it must be mentioned, much of his "theory" : about how Tesla Coil operate, spark gap operation, and quenching is simply : wrong (both theoretically and experimentally). It should also be mentioned : that modern day pulsed power equipment routinely works with unipolar high : voltage and high current pulses (i.e., non-reversing) that have nanosecond : and even subnanosecond risetimes. And the reported effects above are : simply not observed. : : I have not personally experienced or witnessed any of these effects, and I : am unaware of any serious Tesla Coil researchers or pulsed power : engineers/physicists who have either. I have quite an extensive collection : of engineering and physics books and technical journals that go back to : the early 1900's when both AC and DC power systems were being planned and : designed. These cover the gory details where various engineering or safety : problems were discussed and resolved. The effects above are not reported : in these primary documents, nor are they reported as design or safety : issues in today's AC OR DC low or high voltage electrical power systems or : in high energy pulsed power systems, even though today's power and energy : levels are orders of magnitude higher than that those used or even dreamed : of at the turn of the previous century. Potentially dangerous high voltage : surges can occur upon sudden current interruption (particularly in systems : with substantial inductance) and the effect is well understood. However, : corona formation upon "turn on" is not mentioned in any primary : documents of the period for either DC or AC power systems. : : My conclusion is that these effects are, for the most part, figments of : Mr. Vassilatos's imagination. Or, perhaps his personal : "reinterpretations" of some of Tesla's or other engineering : documents of the period when colored by a "conspiracy theory" : perspective. These accounts make for interesting, and even entertaining, : reading. But don't put too much faith in their accuracy. : : Sorry, but I call them as I see them... : : Bert :
Re: Tesla's shock waves due to electrostatic induction from quenched disruptive discharges
--Previous Message-- : Hello Bert, : : I am grateful for your post. But, I am disappointed. : : I did read the Gerry Vassilatos book. The information contained had no : references as to where he got it. I had doubts about its validity. But, it : would sure be cool if what he mentions had some back up. Alas. I am : disappointed. : : But, even so, Tesla clearly mentions "radiant energies".
But, Tesla also indicated that the amount of radiant energy that could be extracted was quite small. Since a high Q resonator can become "shock excited" from nearby transient signals (such as lightning or other RF sources), a well constructed base grounded Tesla Coil secondary will often develop a measurable signal while seemingly just sitting there.
: In : addition, there is Teslas concepts of longitudinal waves vs transverse : waves. I believe he clearly stated his differences with that one.
History appears to have proved him wrong in this area. Tesla observed "near field" effects (electrostatic or electromagnetic induction) that occur in the region within a few wavelengths, but there is no direct evidence (by Tesla or subsequent experimenters) of long-range, or far field "longitudinal waves".
: In : contrast, his CS notes doesn't seem to be exclusive to DC disruptive : discharges as he used AC sources or DC.
He exclusively used AC (through his Westinghouse HV transformers if I recall correctly) for his high power CS experiments. : : Tesla's statements that his transmitter was 10,000,000 hp maximum power : was stated fairly clearly.
Tesla was a showman He often "overstated" power by referring to maximum reactive power levels when talking about pulsed resonant circuits. Or expressing peak power in horsepower since it was larger than KW. He was also well aware of power amplification within pulsed circuits. Even a relatively small wall-plug powered Tesla Coil can have a peak power of hundreds of kilowatts or even megawatts. Tesla knew that this was peak power, not continuous power. "Power multiplication" occurs whenever energy is accumulated relatively slowly and then released quickly. For example - a charged capacitor that stores 100 joules (watt-seconds) when discharge in 1 second will have a peak power of only 100 watts. However, if we discharged the same capacitor within 1 millionth of a second we'd get a peak power of 100 megawatts. Same energy, but released slowly or rapidly.
: I don't think Niagra falls power station was : going to supply that. But, Gerry seems to have let his imagineering run : wild with pieces of information in his book. Some of his discriptions are : bordering on a soap opera quality.
Yeah. Unfortunately, books of this nature that tend to muddy and distort Tesla's real achievements.
: : There are though fairly numerous reports/documentation of Tesla's schist : after his presentation in the royal society in London. They at first : seemed to have welcomed him. In a relatively brief time, they viewed his : work as nothing special. This is according to a couple of biographies I : have read about him. There seems to have been a special relationship : between him and Crookes however.
Tesla was more of an inventor and engineer than a true scientist. Much of his writings were provided to the popular media instead of being published within peer-reviewed journals. Though brilliant, he was sometimes wrong, particularly in areas that were outside of his direct areas of knowledge. This did not stop him from railing against relativity, quantum mechanics... or "Hertzian Waves". : : After reading Teslas paper on The Problem of Increasing human energy, I : walked away with the feeling that he was simply trying to transmit power : and information efficiently, at great distances and with out wires. : Period. I believe he sited that perhaps oneday, a new way could be : developed to produce/convert energy. More enigma. Ah well. : : You read much of Mr. Dollards efforts?
Yeah a little bit. While many of his demonstrations are interesting and entertaining, I also think that he sometimes misinterprets what he's seeing/measuring. These may then cause him to draw inaccurate/inappropriate conclusions on occasion. Resonance phenomena can be surprising. This is especially true when a relatively small amount of voltage or current into a resonant circuit causes voltage and currents that are HUNDREDS of times larger to "circulate" between resonant reactive (i.e., L and C) elements. : : Thank again, : : Steve : Best wishes,