The Original People's Forum: I think a lot of that is fair....

However, the small chance of the 2nd counter attack goal was estinguished by the subs, if we could have held as we were for another 10 minutes or so, Argentina would have had to push and push more and those counter attack chances would have increased but by making the changes he did, we conceeded any chance of that and tried to hang on against a team known for not giving up, known for late goals, that has scored 2 or more in each of their last 12 games with one of the greatest ever players in the squad.

More dissapointing were the goals themselves, the corner routine is something Argentina do from almost every corner, yet we were asleep and got caught out by it multiple times. For the Enzo goal, there was a shot of the England defence and as Messi is taking it, we have players looking the wrong way, fixing their shirts, not concentrating. All we had to do was put a man on the edge of the box and it nulifies their corner routine.

Then we have a cross into the box, which was a beautiful ball in, but then Marinez has a free header, without having to make any sort of great movement and a time when we've got 48 centre backs supposed to be in there, again, lack of concentration, lack of awareness, lack of leadership.

Both goals so preventable. Argentina were the better team, by far, totally agree but we had a huge opportunity and poor tactical changes played a huge part in that.

You're spot on about the ball retention, Everton have suffered from a lack of being able to do that for many, many years!

Ste

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Football analysis, post game by ex-players, pundits and fans is all about the narrative. Last night as England scored first has focused on how they and especially Tuchel threw the game away with defensive subs.

But the stats say different.
The first half was an even non event, constant fouls and slow build up from both sides.

The second half started different, England's goal came from a quick break against the run of play. It was their first of only 2 shots on target all game. When they scored Argentina had had 4 and their XG was 2 (compared to England's 0.5).
The tide had already turned before England got their goal on the break. Whether they scored or not, the way Argentina have played in this world cup, scoring at least 2 or 3 goals was going to happen. They had already scored 8 late goals in the previous games.

The narrative was England sat in and the defensive subs made it inevitable. But the bigger problem England already had in the 2nd half was that the majority of the players are unable to hold onto the ball (Like Spain and to a lesser extent Argentina). They have quick fast athletes, but poor ball retainers (its always been thus).
England are incapable of keeping the ball against a top 10 team, always have been. The only way they could have scored a 2nd would have been on the break again, which requires sitting in. They are a moments team from big players and you cant rely on that tactically to win you games.

Really like Tuchel and his interviews are pretty honest. But the media and the country have set the narrative and he may well struggle to keep the job, he'll survive.

Made up for Pickford, don't think he'll pick up the golden glove but he's shown he is a great shot stopper. Not that the sly six agenda against him will stop.

Also for another time, but I think the tournament set up hurt England in the end. There was no gradual improvement in challenge that you should get in a cup competition. They basically played 6 group level games then a Semi against the world no.1. You don't learn and get the right competition experience like that. In every tournament as soon as England get a top 10 team they go out.

Stage Opponent FIFA Ranking
Group Stage Croatia 11th
Group Stage Ghana 73rd
Group Stage Panama 34th
Round of 32 DR Congo 46th
Round of 16 Mexico 14th
Quarter-final Norway 31st
Semi-final Argentina 1st