Posted by Matty on November 18, 2012, 14:31:14 Edited by board administrator February 10, 2013, 13:02:20
This will be the thread pertaining to British WW-II S-class subs, including my own kitbash/conversion into HMS Stygian (see below), as well as any of your contributions and commentary, posted as "responses", below.
Cheers,
-Matty
2/15/15: Stern and LOA
Posted by Matty on February 15, 2015, 19:48:21, in reply to "Bashing an RN S-class SUB" Edited by board administrator February 27, 2015, 13:58:53
At top, once again scribe each line fully through before detaching, and losing support from the end points - the tip of the stern and at the keel - and of course don't cut fully through the hinge-point at the saddle tank. This way, the underside will indeed swing perfectly up into place, as shown at middle, where it can be tacked in place with dots of superglue at the tip of the stern, as well as around a shimming block (white), inserted in the keel. The remaining gaps are then easily filled with (preferrably strong) putty, such as the superglue-talcom cement/filler shown here, at bottom.
Note the resemblance to the drawing is already apparent - only to become more so, with the rudder also trimmed/reshaped:
The stern upsweep is noticeably a little steeper and more blunt than in the drawing - though the difference exaggerated in this pic, as the former sits more upright (orthogonal to the camera), while the drawing lies flat, its taper thus appearing finer. In any case, the resemblance to the stern of an RN S- (or T-) class boat is already distinct.
To complete the last of the four major surgeries, it was then on to the midships chopping, to adjust the LOA:
At top, after careful consideration, I decided to reverse the earlier cut-pattern - now removing the top segment going aft, and the bottom, forward - so as to maximally preserve (and split the difference between) the vent hole details, visible on the casing. (This is exactly why major LOA adjustments are made amidships: changes - indeed, even errors - in the cut-locations will have little if any negative impact.) Again, supporting end-points were preserved until the last possible moment.
After careful alignment and "spot-weldeding" with superglue, all gaps were finally cemented/filled, as shown second down from top, with a heavy bead of CA-putty (white). Optimal alignment is crucial: first and foremost along the crease between hull and limber holes/top casing (third from top), followed in priority by the upper joint with each saddle tank, and lastly - forcing as much as possible of any error, if necessary - onto the undersides (lower left, on up from bottom), already slated to be reworked subsequently, and far less visible in any case. In this way the topsides - the most highly-visible areas - as their joints are increasingly finished/smoothed flush (lower right and bottom) will end up looking their absolute best.
And meanwhile the LOA adjustment is near perfect:
Click on Image for FULL-RES
At this point all major features are now repositioned accurately - with the single, glaring exception of the saddle tank's forward end. This is exactly as anticipated for this ShCh mold, whose saddle tanks extend too far forward - particularly regarding where the pressure hull tapers into the bow at the torpedo tubes - for an RN S- (or, again a T-) class hull. Meantime, repositioning the forward tip of each saddle tank will represent little if any extra work to the already-planned replacement/reshaping of the undersides, which is required in any case. Thus does this kitbash design "triage" the easiest/most expendable features to undergo surgery, while consolidating such work to end up with everything with the right shape, and in the right place, with the least effort (and destruction).
Similar to the above - I realized, regrettably, too late - regarding the aft saddle tank ends, that the hinge cuts could just as easily have been extended forward (about a quarter inch) into them, to produce a finer and more accurate stern taper - again, with the saddle tank undersides slated to be replaced/reworked, anyway. This will almost certainly be done on my second-string example, and may yet prove optimal to (re-)adjust it on this one. (Though for the latter it may also be just as well - and far easier - to shave/reshape the keel area slightly. I will think about it some more, and time will tell.)
In any case, the above proves at least two of my (3x) ShCh mold bashes can reliably yield excellent-looking RN boats - one of which is certain to be Stygian.
Cheers,
- Matty
ReStart 2/10/15: STYGIAN in 500-SCALE!
Posted by Matty on February 10, 2015, 0:21:26, in reply to "Bashing an RN S-class SUB" Edited by board administrator February 10, 2015, 17:55:56
--Originally Posted 2/10/15--
A major re-evaluation of the Stygian build was indicated immediately upon our discovery of a far better kit from which to bash this S(3)-class sub: the Encore 400-scale Soviet "ShCh" mold:
Note its hull (left) incorporates virtually all major components - distinct saddle tanks, narrow straight casing, cylindrical pressure hull and upswept stern - as the RN S(3)-class (right). While some features (notably the saddle tanks) are not of precisely of the desired shape - indeed, in this crude older kit may well be incorrect even for the ShCh itself - still this hull is far closer and more easily converted to depict Stygian (or a T-class boat, for that matter), than any other yet found. Likewise, its forward sheer - actually, an entire upturned bow - needs correction, but this is pretty easily done (see below). And to cap it off, note the Encore hull is just a bit longer than a 1:500 scale S(3a) (right, Full-Res): allowing the easiest-possible adjustment amidships (see below), in a build at the very most-desired scale.
Therefore - despite some very good initial returns in the 350-scale build - now, after having backed away sufficiently for clear perspective, it was really a no-brainer to reset and begin again - this time in 500-scale - with the foundation being this kit. (Of which I also had 3x - costing next to nothing - already in my stash, as well!)
Very quickly it becomes apparent that, to withstand any of the major cutting or grinding anticipated, these delicate hull-halves (left), and really delicate foredeck (right), must first be assembled: to have at least some strength. But even then I rejected any brute-force grinding as unnecessarily destructive of the fine-texture vent-holes molded into the deck - mis-registered though they are (right, at right), OOB, such that the last row is at risk of loss on separation from the sprue, unless first backed/bolstered (with superglue-putty), and then the featurelss tab at the opposite end can be removed, as shown (right, far-right).
After assembly, scribing was then begun (left): from just above the topmost limber holes to just below the deck - for a start on the first of four major surgeries anticipated:
FULL RES
Two wedges (red) need removal: one at the bow (the one we are working on right now), to drop the foredeck level - and the other astern: to lift the upsweep of the keel. Black-and-white rotor symbols mark the points of rotation - as also for an opposite-type, opening cut (green), at the bow: to drop the chin downward (alternatively possible by "brute force" puttying, as well). The final, major surgery is to shorten the hull: amidships, removing alternating top- and bottom segments (brown, "rectangules"), suggested as the best/easiest approach, which best retains proper axial alignment, at the same time.
In the above looking perhaps a bit more difficult than they really are, half of these - both the surgeries at the bow - were in fact already completed by the end of (after some experimentation - see below) a single work-session - summarized in the following montage:
Click on Image for FULL-RES
At top, the lower boundary of the wedge to be removed is demarcated by scribing a line, level with- and just above - and careful to preserve - the highest (5x) lone limber-holes. As well as, note, (almost all of) the anchor: yet another item found already located correctly for an S(3) class - or, again, a T-class - on this mold.
Second from top: the wedge material is shaved/gouged out, up to just below the deck, starting aft and working forward, to preserve support from the connection at the tip of the bow, until the last possible moment. Also in this step, carefully chisel off the wart-like foredeck bump (capstan?), - as deck must be perfectly flat, for the most reliable and easy repositioning/re-attachment, in the next step.
Third: again carefully protecting limber-hole details, etc., the foredeck is repositioned and reattached parallel with the former: secured and gap-fillied with superglue putty (recommended), which will dry/harden very quickly, to allow further shaping of the nose, as shown. Resemblance to the S(3) hull now really begins to "pop" - the lower torpedo tube door appearing as yet another feature located exactly right for the topmost torpedo contour (though with different, hatch-like door) on the S(3) boats.
At bottom: cuts are then started from either side of the forward keel tip, and extended all the way up to the chin, where they meet, and this triangle then wedged open as indicated, by a plastic block, secured/filled from there, aft - again with superglue putty (milky light gray). The forward tip is left open pending anticipated (widening for) insertion of assembled torpedo tubes/bow grating - similar to that done in the 1:350 build - except this time inserted (or at least we'll try) from the front.
Finally, the tip of the keel is extended forward with plastic block (white), after which the chin will still need a little reshaping/puttying, to the proper angle for an S(3)-class - but the major work is finished, and already (even with open "mouth" somewhat resembling a sperm whale), this nose is recognizeably that of an RN boat.
Likewise for results obtaining from two other brief trials, which - having several of these (dirt-cheap) kits on hand - I also undertook:
Click on Image to Enlarge ----FULL RES---------------FULL RES------------
At left, a more demanding approach to levelling the foredeck (top), included cutting free and dropping down the entire bow tip, along with the deck. This put far more stress on the thin deck - duly breaking it (the repair visible to left of center) - though it did have the advantage of augmenting the chin (more than) sufficient to begin to resemble an S(3)-class boat (right). However much of this will have to be summarily removed - if any torpedo-tube/grating assembly is to be inserted - anyway. Meanwhile all molded-in features on the rotated bow-tip now tilt slightly downward, greatly or completely obviating any of their benefit(s), as well.
And a final trial (bottom) involved removing the top casing walls, and bow tip, completely: the idea here being to flip the former and swap sides, in order to relocate their limber holes up just below the deck edge, as on many S(3)- and (especially the) T-class - boats. Despite great care, however, at least half the limber-hole detials were signficantly damaged in this attempt, again pretty much wiping out benefit sought. Still, for a T-class - whose deck and casing flare in/out, and slope up/down at several points - extensive reworking of the top casing is required in any event, and so this last test remains a prime candidate for restarting my Trenchant, likewise in 1/500 scale.
So, we have a very promising reset/re-start of my Stygian build - and very possibly also my Trenchant build - in 1/500 scale, thanks to this serendipitous little Encore ShCh kit.
Cheers,
- Matty
STYGIAN: Attaching the BOW
Posted by Matty on August 24, 2013, 21:19:08, in reply to "Bashing an RN S-class SUB" Edited by board administrator August 25, 2013, 11:41:35
--Originally Posted 8/24/13--
Regarding the bow, its torpedo tubes and how the pressure hull terminates into it, recall the following is what we need to depict:
Note the openings for the bow tubes are essentially cut directly into the pressure hull, as it rounds off, bluntly there. Forward and overhead of this area, the entire casing gives the impression of being all but completely hollow, with just some grillework - and an anchor or two, tucked-up - inside. Clearly, the torpedo tubes were constructed integral with the pressure hull, and then the bow casing constructed over top.
However, I couldn't pursue construction in quite the same way:
Click on Image to Enlarge
Instead, a start had already been made (last time) fitting the grilles to the hollowed-out bow, and now Plastruct tubes were carefully aligned with- and attached to this grillework (top-left). Alignment of the first tube was crucial - it then being used to ensure alignment of the second tube, and so on - all of them installed extra-long, to facilitate this, as well as handling, in general. All six tubes, thus aligned and tacked in place, were then encased in CA putty/cement to form a (rock-) solid module, from which excess tube lengths were then chopped off (right). All except for one tube extension - retained, again to facilitate handling, as well as alignment when inserted into the bow shell, where it was duly cemented (bottom-left).
At this point it was realized part of the top casing, as also shown at bottom-left, would have to come off - to enable further work on the pressure hull, after the bow was installed. I must admit this part had not been well thought-through (see below) - surprising, given the identical feature had been correctly anticipated on the earlier-started, Trenchant build.
In any case, the construction did, ultimately, proceed quite well:
Click on Image to Enlarge
The front end of the pressure hull, not built at all wide enough - neither to bulge accurately, nor even to accept the torpedo-tube block (its final, excess-tube now chopped off) - had to be cut back substantially. However, with this done, the hull did accept the required hollowing-out beautifully (top), with subsequent alignment of the bow assembly proving both easy and remaining on-track with the drawing (bottom).
Now, to add in an appropriate bulge to the pressure hull:
Click on Image to Enlarge
For this, once again copious amounts of CA putty were used (top) - and now you can clearly see why part of the top casing had to come off.
This sets up next for some major sculpting - augmented by yet more putty (bottom), to correct contours further back on the hull. After which, attachment of the saddle tanks and remainder of the top casing - including above the bow, making it significantly higher - should be relatively straightforward.
Oh, and I almost forgot - the Money Shot - the reason for going to all this trouble, in the first place (!):
The down-the-throat view of the forward tubes (after further sculpting and some more putty on the hull, today).
Stay tuned...
Cheers,
-Matty
HMS STYGIAN - Build Start: 2/09/13
Posted by Matty on February 10, 2013, 13:08:02, in reply to "Bashing an RN S-class SUB" Edited by board administrator February 11, 2013, 9:19:48
--Originally Posted 2/10/13--
This build employs our Encore D-class conversion (using the 400-scale, Soviet Dekabrist-class mold), to produce a model of Stygian - an S3(a)-type boat - in 1:350 scale:
Click on Image to Enlarge
After a start (left) by welding the hull-halves and allowing to harden securely, the real bashing was begun (right) with the removal of the top casing (inverted, on sanding stick) and replacement by split Plastruct tubing (white), to complete the upper pressure hull. Splitting tubing perfectly straight and parallel is very difficult - OK, impossible - and (leaving out the Long Story) to maintain a uniform hull diameter an additional layer was required, forward. Note these half-tubes were themselves partially split at the ends, in order to taper/blend with underlying features. To conform with the hull taper fore- and aft, the cuts are expanded to leave rounded flaps - still visible at at the bow (right) - which can then be further trimmed/adjusted so as to converge, when pinched, flush to the hull taper, as shown at the stern (left). Amidships, the tube was also split, this time the flaps sanded paper-thin at the ends, to fair (when pressed down) against the underlying section.
Also (speaking of tubes), one look in the parts box yielded a very close match for each of the required saddle tanks (middle; wingtip tanks from a 48-scale F-104, IIRC) whose main demand will be reworking/rearrangement into the deep-bellied "guppy" form shown in the drawing.
Meantime, (although not contemplated in the original conversion) the forward taper of the hull was reworked. On the D-class mold it is very straight and knife-like - good for the extreme forward end of the S3 (see below) - but not the immediately following, blunt end of the pressure hull - and a key feature of these (and most of their contemporary) RN subs. So I carefully lopped off the mold's bow (right) and, securing a thick plastic block (white) into the forward hull, pinched the extending ends to bend around the block and form the more abrupt terminus desired.
Now, insanity can take many forms - featured here: what I started on the severed Encore bow:
This bit of plastic, about the size of my thumbnail, was first squared off considerably - a major benefit of the (relatively) thick, Encore plastic - then given the larger torpedo openings characteristic of the S3 (left) and, in the process hollowed out pretty much completely. The increasingly fragile structure did break - repeatedly - repaired with superglue putty (lighter-gray patches) as might be noticeable. A brand-new, razor-sharp No.11 knife blade was a must for any of this. The hollowing-out was not without purpose, but to provide clearance for later insertion of an interior grating of 240-scale PE ladders, superglued along the edges and trimmed to fit (right).
The net result clearly being a major "pop" towards actually resembling an S3 boat:
Click on Image to Enlarge
Already, just laying over the plans (and somewhat askew, at that) the unjoined assemblies demonstrate the resemblance: larger torpedo openings in a more angular nose, attaching to a bluntly-tapered pressure hull (top) - the nose being a light-guage housing over an internal grating (bottom).
Upcoming, in the immediate pipeline: additional details for the nose (what does anybody want to bet I won't install actual, tiny drilled-out torpedo tubes, as well?) in work about equal to the above again, and on the pressure hull about 25% more work to finish it off, plus of course the above-mentioned saddle tanks.
As for the topside features, experience (the hard way) is warning me to re-check/refine the drawings against actual photos - the sail and upper casing being, if not actually out of proportion then perhaps at least incorrectly located. After that, the sail and deck should be very simple work - the top casing (properly detailed), a little less so.
Here, despite substantial remaining questions about the sail, and (much less so) the top casing - both of which I will check/correct, against actual historic reference pics - is the best of what we are able to merge together, so far:
Click on Image for FULL-RES
The linked pic ("S3class350scale_PLANSfu.JPG") - not the above, but the "FULL-RES" one it links to - contains a scale-bar (numbered in inches) and embedded dpi, sized for exactly 1:350 scale (the one best served by our smaller conversion options - and which I've accordingly decided to target, myself). So, at exactly the (132.258) dpi - or, "pixels/inch" - it specifies, you should be able to print out directly at 350-scale (in "landscape" orientation, fitting onto one standard-sized page). Which you can verify/ensure, by comparing with a ruler directly on the printout scale bar.
I deleted the scale-bar from the (lower-resolution) pic above, to avoid possible confusion.
If printing-out in landscape mode (90-degree rotation) may present a problem,
Of course, you can print out any of thea above at any scale desired - if you know the desired length, in inches, of the S(3) you want to build - and simply adjust the printout drawing until it matches that length (which I made sure to post, in the discussions of each option, and scales).
Again, I will (eventually) be posting more/better - but in the meantime, the above should be enough to (at least) get you started!
Cheers,
-Matty
Conversion Options: 1/350 and 1/144 Scales
Posted by Matty on November 18, 2012, 22:34:58, in reply to "Bashing an RN S-class SUB" Edited by board administrator February 10, 2013, 13:04:20
--Originally Posted 11/18/12--
Like subs of the British T-class, the RN S-class remains grossly under-represented (if at all) by injection-molded - i.e., widely available and affordable - model releases. Therefore (and just because we like to), the following will investigate the feasibility of converting each of three readily-available, often dirt-cheap kits into either of the S(3)-type variants in this class:
Click on Image to Enlarge
At top-left, Stubborn, photographed in 2/43 - and at top-right, Stygian, viewed circa 1943 - were S(3a)-class boats, each having an all-welded hull; 3-inch deck gun and single aft external torpedo tube (in addition to 6 conventional bow tubes). These two subs distinguished themselves by (among other things) towing the commando-midget-subs X-7 and XE-3, respectively, to their devastating minings of Tirpitz, at anchor in the Norwegian Altafjord, and of Takao, tied up at Singapore, respectively. At bottom, a pic of the S(3a) boat Seraph, circa 1944 - though grainy - shows clearly the opening for the aft, external tube.
The subsequent variant of the S-class was very similar:
Click on Image to Enlarge
At top, Selene, viewed 7/8/44, was an S(3b)-class boat, differing noticeably from the prior variant(s) in having a prominent forward extension of the sail, housing a rotating platform for a larger - 4-inch - main gun. Selene (again, among many other exploits) likewise distinguished herself by towing XE-5 to Hong Kong, where the latter successfully located and cut the submarine cable to Singapore. The S(3b)s lost the aft external tube, their aft casings tapered (in two steps) accordingly, as can be seen. A search for the best view of this aft taper produced only the (un-annotated) pic at bottom - which may be an S(3b), or possibly a yet-earlier variant (also lacking the stern tube), as its aft-most, second step down appears to be straight vertical. But, you get the idea.
Indeed, the S(3a) and S(3b) classes - both identically 217', LOA - were so similar as to both be depicted in one drawing which I found:
Note the (regrettably low-resolution) dotted lines, aft, indicating the extended S(3a) class casing - overlying the outline of the (step-) tapered S(3b) terminal casing. Likewise, note the light outline surrounding the deck gun - ostensibly indicating the platform/splinter shielding around the S(3b) gun - although note it appears actually anchored to the deck, with the indicated dimensions of the platform (indeed, of the whole sail) appearing rather questionable. Still, the crucial hull features appear quite plausible/accurate enough for use in graphic analyses of the feasibility of conversion, from the following kits:
Mirage 1:400 RN U-class kit
Click on Image to Enlarge
This corroborates our already suspected asessment of the S-class as a near-perfectly balanced mix of U- and T-class features - a conversion yet easier than for a T-boat, from this kit. Note the good match (bottom) in the pressure hull at both ends - a little less at the bow - the key filler between them being just a straight, cylindrical tube - very easily-installed - for about 25% of the pressure hull, amidships. Likewise, much of the top casing and core of the sail structure, is useable for either an S(3a or -b), the former requiring about 30% more additional casing aft - but of simpler shape - while the latter about 100% more to the sail/forward gun platform. Both require the same, prominent saddle-tanks be added wholesale, from scratch (and/or other spares).
This overlay - optimizing fit of the aft taper (i.e., most complex part) of the pressure hull - produces a build length of 7.4" - 26% larger than the Mirage kit - arriving coincidentally at exactly 1:350! (1:350.28, to be precise.) Clearly, most builders will prefer this, although anyone already having a 400-scale theme can match it precisely by reducing (shortening the hull insert, and shaving the beam, everywhere) 12.4%, for a build 6.5" LOA. As the smallest-scale of our options (see below), it might even tempt some (like me), to go clear down to 1:500 - 5.21" LOA - in a whopping 29.9% reduction. But this would seem truly a waste of so easy an option - inherently wanting - to build out at 350-scale. (The scale in which modern high-quality kits of Tirpitz, Takao and even, IIRC, the X-craft which attacked them, as well - are all now available.)
Encore 1:400 Soviet D-class kit
Click on Image to Enlarge
This analysis indicates - again, completely fortuitously - a conversion option requiring no hull-insert whatsoever; just a small finial, added at the extreme stern (and, no doubt, some minor reshaping at the bow, as well). While, of course, now essentially the whole of the top casing will have to be added, the above will more than compensate for any additional effort, here. Again, the entirety of the saddle tanks, and significant addition(s) to the sail - again, particularly for the S(3b) - will have to be added, still this conversion appears to be even less involved than for the Mirage U-class, above. The biggest drawback appears to be a slightly less-perfect depiction of the aft pressure hull - though of course the effort saved, above, could readily be put into sculpting/accurizing this. While this build will come out 7.7" LOA - scaling to 1:339 - a true, 350-scale target would need to reduce only by 3.2% - to LOA of 7.4" - much of which could be done at the extreme ends (if not undetectably "fudged" outright - e.g., hidden under the keel, top casing and saddle tanks), and thus, to most modellers probably be well worth the attempt.
This is our conversion coming closest to 300-scale (the scale of several classic sub- and DD kits), which some builders might want to achieve by enlarging 12.9%, to create a yet larger (8.7" LOA) build. Going the other direction, to 1:400 - LOA 6.5", would need a proportionally even larger alteration - 15.3% reduction - while going all the way down to 500-scale, and 5.2" LOA, would require a whopping 32% crunch. However, again the cost/benefit of such conversions - all of which require sawing (at least once) clear through the mold's pressure hull, amidships - compared to obtaining an essentially (if not exactly) 350-scale build without any major changes to the pressure hull - just doesn't seem "competitive" (all other things being equal).
Revell-Germany 1:144 Type 206A kit
Click on Image to Enlarge
This perhaps unlikely-looking candidate (middle) offers many of the same aspects for conversion potential as in our T(3)-class conversion - notably excluding its bow (sonar) dome, which now for the S(3) is all but unuseable. Still, the match with the S(3) pressure hull, overall is even more extensive - fully incorporating the 206A's aft taper, again when inverted, as shown. There is plenty of foundational material for the sail, including forward gun platform of the S(3b), and even part of the 206A's diminutive top casing appears useable on the S(3) upper bow.
When scaled as shown, the S(3) conversion comes out 17.8" long , and - again entirely coincidentally - essentially a match for 144-scale, at 1:147! An angel-perfect 1:144 would demand a 1.9% enlargement, to 18.08" LOA. Going the other direction - for those (like me), targeting a match with the classic Revell USN fleet-boat - a hefty reduction of 17.6% would be required, to arrive exactly at 1:178, with an S(3) build 14.6" long. Again, though, the latter hardly seems the best use of this mold - which innately "wants" to convert to an S(3a or -b) very near, or exactly 1:144 - so a 178-scale conversion would probably be better served by some (as yet unidentified) smaller-scale kit, as the foundation.
So, together the above look like a jackpot of options for modellers wanting to build an RN S-class sub in 1:350 or 1:144 - which, I'd guess, covers the vast majority of modellers wanting to build one of these.