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I guess it's easy to be a visionary when your not in power
Posted by TheDunstableWindsock on 29/6/2026, 13:22:00
But that is some major rethink of government strategy by having a "#10 North" and far more devolved decision making. On the face of it it sounds good. Whether or not it is credible is another matter but it is offering new hope of togetherness and fairness rather than division and blame.
Re: I guess it's easy to be a visionary when your not in power
The majority of the revenue is generated by tech and finance …lose that revenue and the country is even more fucked than currently. Whilst we all love Manchester and the norf….foreign investors not so much. We are going to lurch to the left under this clown and bankrupt the country.
Re: I guess it's easy to be a visionary when your not in power
Seemed to be very heavy on improving the lot of politicians/ their power and a bit light on how we all benefit. I haven’t seen a lot of evidence of a wealth of high talent to spend more money wisely at a local level… You got to chuckle at those civil servants who wanted Kier gone, they now have someone who will cut their powers and numbers back significantly
Re: I guess it's easy to be a visionary when your not in power
Your right on that one..increase your office/staff size..increase your costs..why do you need a pm office in Manchester..survived for years without..Waste other people's money seems to be this blokes thinking
Re: I guess it's easy to be a visionary when your not in power
But is there any equivalent to Tufton Street in Manchester?
Why don't you take a trip up and find out for yourself Chunk? Whilst there, you can take a look at the delights of Burnhams legacy. Piccadily Gardens is a nice starting point for you.
Re: I guess it's easy to be a visionary when your not in power
Wonder if the next PM happens to be from Cornwall, or Caithness, or Norwich, or Anglesey, or Strabane and they want to be fairer, would this happen again. If the one after that comes from etc....Trouble ahead Trouble behind
Re: I guess it's easy to be a visionary when your not in power
It is not London who decides..London is the building..people in the commons come from all areas..voted in by people of those areas..so it is not a London decision
Re: I guess it's easy to be a visionary when your not in power
devolution and de-centralisation is actually a tory way of thinking. As such, it's quite amusing seeing the right wingers seeing it's negative points and the value of centralisation! I don't hide my lefty politics but I also realise they are not all perfect. Some, on both sides, blindly follow whatever the party they support, says. Politics, and life in general is far more nuanced.Live justly, love mercy, perpetuate generosity, walk humbly.
Re: I guess it's easy to be a visionary when your not in power
You “work” for the state don’t you Bodger…or more likely on benefits? Don’t worry Andy will look after you. At least I have some dignity to lose fella… Crack open some white lighting on the tax payer …you deserve it.
Re: I guess it's easy to be a visionary when your not in power
It’s not 100% but most of those that live off the state either through work , non profit or benefits vote labour. Anyway what’s happened to Starmer and Reeves who you spoke so highly of over the last 18 months ??? Total clowns thrown out of the circus to be replaced by even more left leaning clowns who will destroy the country even further…oh no it’s going well unless you are one of the millions looking for a job…maybe we can increase their benefits and tax the working classes more?
Re: Keep clapping
Posted by MG on 29/6/2026, 21:44:47, in reply to "Keep clapping "
Well I don't know 100% of those people to be able to say.
I can tell you that I am not and never have been such a person. And I know plenty similar. I also know people who work for the council for example who traditionally voted Tory and some of whom (shudder) say they will vote Reform.
I have not "spoken highly" of either. I have maintained repeatedly that I don't think they are doing great by any means but I believe that they are unquestionably better than what preceded them and are infinitely preferable to the far righties who have lead the polls.
Re: Keep clapping
Posted by Caught Jester on 29/6/2026, 20:52:12, in reply to "Keep clapping "
It’s not 100% but most of those that live off the state either through work , non profit or benefits vote labour.
Do you have any substantive evidence to back up that claim?
Re: Keep clapping
Posted by The Questioner on 29/6/2026, 23:46:17, in reply to "Re: Keep clapping "
If you are both in the pte sector you will know that as Labour supporters you are in the minority. I am sure if you want to dispute my claim you could find some data that only 95% of public sector workers vote for Labour….i think we all know that most of the NHS votes for them. MG you absolutely pissed your pants when Starmer got in…he has been absolutely shit….but maybe you wanted someone else ? Who would that be…don’t want those splinters in your arse causing issues ? The best two politicians imo currently are Kemi & Zia …get them together and the country will be a better place.Appreciate they may be a little to educated for the left but suck it up buttercup. Anyway my views nailed …don’t be shy?
I made it very clear I was delighted when Labour got in because it got the very worst government I have ever seen, out. I was clear that I felt it put us in a better place. I was also clear that it reminded me too much of Blair and co, this wasn't really a traditional Labour government, they did however have some excellent ideas.
Starmer has been nowhere near as bas as has been made out, though as I said at the time, he should have gone for the Mandelson thing.
But seriously if you rate Kemi and Zia then your head is completely scrambled. Even Reform wouldn't let Zia stand and they have put up some utterly abysmal candidates.
Re: Keep clapping
Posted by The Questioner on 30/6/2026, 0:44:43, in reply to "Re: Keep clapping "
😂😂nothing like someone trying to understand other people’s views. I can list you loads of reasons how this government has fucked up. You tell me why Kemi & Zia make my brain scrambled ?
Oh I don't know, Kemi having her picture taken with tanks to show how she would have led us into war against Iran. Then, within a few days . . . not so much! She has zero judgement and is only occasionally good at the cheap shot theatre of PMQs.
And we can both list the crap things that this government has done but it's a much shorter list than what went before. And there are some significant achievements that are being totally underplayed and largely ignored.
Neither of the right wing parties have any credibility, the Tories deserve to rot on the sidelines for a long, long time for what they did. Reform, well if you can't recognise them for what they are then you aren't looking, because you're not that stupid.
Re: Keep clapping
Posted by bodger1 on 30/6/2026, 8:09:47, in reply to "Re: Keep clapping "
This joker thought Thick Liz was good.
You might want to evaluate.
Re: Keep clapping
Posted by The Questioner on 30/6/2026, 1:02:05, in reply to "Re: Keep clapping "
Well I actually believe the war in Iran was the right decision so that doesn’t put me off her.
I suspect I wouldn’t align with reform but don’t know enough about their policies ( if they have any ) to judge. I am referring to one politician who every time I have heard him speak I nod in agreement.
Is one of those significant achievements you refer to being achieved by your mate Ed …the billions we are spending and can’t even cover our welfare debt….yep well done Ed…he probably will become a knight …it’s fucking scandalous.
So you would have been happy to spend large amounts of money on a war that has achieved nothing but negatives? Still believing in that?
And yes, just one of those things is that we now finally have positive action being taken to address possibly the biggest ever challenge humanity as ever faced. And we now have an energy policy and strategy (could you have said what it was before?) that will bring long-term benefits for all. Do you know how much it is actually costing us at the moment and what fraction of our budget it is?
You instead prefer a man who indulges in calling it "Net stupid Zero" like a five year old who doesn't understand how energy markets work and has never presented scientific sensible reasons against climate change.
On top of that he's happy to remove all of the human rights people have, call judges "activists" who need to be controlled FFS and is part of a party following possibly the worst authoritarian agenda we have seen to date mirroring what is happening in the US.
Re: Keep clapping
Posted by Caught Jester on 29/6/2026, 23:59:50, in reply to "Re: Keep clapping "
We know what your views are. Mine are perfectly rational - no Tories under any circumstances as I’ve been a personal recipient of their disastrous policies - those bastards took 3yrs of my life as a young man and I can never neither forgive nor forget.
Reform? Don’t even go there. Look at the ex-Tories they’ve sucked in ffs. The absolute lowest of the low. Faridge himself is an ex card carrying Tory.
Let me be clear - things ain’t ideal. But - compared to the previous 14yrs (PPE scandal, Partygate, Cash for Honours, Cash for Questions, Chris Pincher - etc) - this is shangri-la.
Posted by The Questioner on 30/6/2026, 0:24:38, in reply to "Re: Keep clapping "
And what about all those kids that can’t get a job atm…is that ok because the Tories upset you in the past ? And just to be clear things will be a fucking lot less worse in 12 months time …copy and paste that if you want.
Re: Keep clapping
Posted by Caught Jester on 30/6/2026, 0:39:13, in reply to "Re: Keep clapping "
When I was on the dole 35yrs ago I had an outlet. Cameron - in thinking he could settle a decades old internal party feud - inadvertently took it away from today’s young, and in doing so opened up a Pandora’s box of populism. Surely even you can see that.
And I’m not sure today’s unemployment figures even begin to compare with what the numbers were back in the 80’s/90’s. It’s not even on the scale.
Re: Keep clapping
Posted by The Questioner on 30/6/2026, 0:53:57, in reply to "Re: Keep clapping "
Cameron didn’t take it away…the British public voted. You and I may not agree with it but that’s what was voted for. I agree he should never have allowed it to happen but I suspect like many of us he thought it would never happen.
Re: Keep clapping
Posted by The Questioner on 30/6/2026, 0:52:49, in reply to "Re: Keep clapping "
Cameron didn’t take it away…the British public voted. You and I may not agree with it but that’s what was voted for.
Re: Keep clapping
Posted by Caught Jester on 30/6/2026, 1:01:19, in reply to "Re: Keep clapping "
Yeah, unbelievably bad political judgment. And as I said - all in the name of settling an internal party feud. I don’t really need to expand upon that other than with one word. Tories.
Re: Keep clapping
Posted by The Questioner on 30/6/2026, 0:25:40, in reply to "Re: Keep clapping "
Also do you know anyone who works in the public sector that doesn’t vote labour?
Re: Keep clapping
Posted by bodger1 on 29/6/2026, 23:57:12, in reply to "Re: Keep clapping "
Genuine question.
Is everything ok?
Re: Keep clapping
Posted by The Questioner on 30/6/2026, 0:28:19, in reply to "Re: Keep clapping "
No we have a shit government destroying our country and it’s about to get a lot worse. But to be brutal it makes fuck all difference to me…I just care about those trying to emulate success only to be fucked over by shit politicians who only do it because they weren’t or couldn’t achieve in the real world.
Re: Keep clapping
Posted by Caught Jester on 30/6/2026, 0:42:02, in reply to "Re: Keep clapping "
So why weren’t you on here moaning day after day when the Tories were arse raping the UK population between 2010 and 2024?
Re: Keep clapping
Posted by The Questioner on 30/6/2026, 0:51:16, in reply to "Re: Keep clapping "
Raping ? You need to explain that . I think the coalition did a very good job building the country back from the gfc and Cameron continued that building until Brexit. We then had several years when fuck all got done trying to exit the eu. When we eventually did we had Boris who I would never have chosen but he did have to steer us through arguably the most difficult time since ww2. Rishi would have moved us forward but emotionally after covid ( just like after ww2 ) there was always going to be a change…..and look what we got. Hindsight politics is very easy my friend… maybe you think Corbyn would have done a better job?
Re: Keep clapping
Posted by bodger1 on 30/6/2026, 8:05:51, in reply to "Re: Keep clapping "
You are bizarre.
It’s not fair to laugh.
Re: I guess it's easy to be a visionary when your not in power
De centralisation is expensive..too many noses in the trough..far too many layers makes slower decision making..MPs represent all areas..most charge us for accomodation..you change the system..costs will rocket..
Re: I guess it's easy to be a visionary when your not in power
It doesn't take arocket scientist to realise that de-centralisation costs more. My point though is that so many right wing thinkers thought de-centralisation was great when the tories brought in devolution for soctland, NI Wales and more unitarian authorities and mayors etc, but now ehn being propsed by the likely next PM, it's being criticised by those same people - yourself included - but others way beyond the catchment of an unofficial messageboard of a provincial 3rd tier football club.Live justly, love mercy, perpetuate generosity, walk humbly.
Re: I guess it's easy to be a visionary when your not in power
Nobody in this thread seems to be acknowledging that London basically subsidises the rest of the UK.
If devolution leads to a spreading out of wealth creating industries around the UK then that should be supported. I think it's reasonable to suggest London gets the best of everything and that is why it creates so much of the UK's wealth, which is then used to subsidise the rest of the UK. So ultimately I would like to see more regional wealth creation and less dependence on London for handouts. I have wanted this for probably the last 30 years.outlaws is not the barometer of sanity. You're either Luton full tilt or you are nothing. We have spunked way too much money on shite. The end.
Re: I guess it's easy to be a visionary when your not in power
From what I have learnt about that period it was a full on decision to make (or return, or maintain, take your pick) London the most important finance hub on earth. In that I think they did broadly succeed. Whether or not that's a good thing is up for debate. We know the global elite wanted cheaper labour and higher profits hence our industries being wound down in favour of foreign companies instead. So they won both ways, in finance and with cheaper labour/higher profits. And yes I agree it was brutal the way our industries were shut down.
I've recently seen it argued that Thatcher was in reality a liberal, not a conservative. It's a pretty reasonable argument in my opinion.
outlaws is not the barometer of sanity. You're either Luton full tilt or you are nothing. We have spunked way too much money on shite. The end.
Re: I guess it's easy to be a visionary when your not in power
Yep. But unless everyone the world over unites nothing will improve. But we're all too busy squabbling over left versus right etc and so they are getting away with it.outlaws is not the barometer of sanity. You're either Luton full tilt or you are nothing. We have spunked way too much money on shite. The end.
Re: I guess it's easy to be a visionary when your not in power
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on 29/6/2026, 13:22:00
