Luton Outlaws - The Avenue of Evil

Free Speech Union

Posted by Poster from the past <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/lutonoutlaws/info/user=Poster+from+the+past' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 15/2/2026, 14:36:26

The Free Speech Union have highlighted serious concerns regarding the 5 member panel on the working group set up by Angela Rayner tasked with establishing a definition of Anti-Muslim hatred/Islamophobia.

All 5 panel members have been found to have links with Islamist individuals and/or organisations including support for Hamas, ISIS member 'Jihadi John', claims Oct 7th was fabricated, death penalty for blasphemy and support for the destruction of Israel.

The FSU is therefore calling out the panel for not meeting "the standards of objectivity required by the Code of Conduct for Board Members of Public Bodies. There is thus a serious risk that if adopted, the definition will be exploited to silence dissent and shield extremists from criticism."

https://freespeechunion.org/anti-free-speech-hostility-islamophobia.html

outlaws is not the barometer of sanity. You're either Luton full tilt or you are nothing. The end.

Re: Free Speech Union

Posted by Jake <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/lutonoutlaws/info/user=Jake' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 15/2/2026, 19:00:54, in reply to "Free Speech Union"

A serious question for you do you see the rise in Islamism in the West a bigger problem than the rise of Trumpism?

I personally think the the rise in Islamism is something that needs to be checked but is not as wide spread as Trumpism which seems to be causing issues all over the world .

I know,I shouldn't have gone there.

Bring compassion back.

Re: Free Speech Union

Posted by Wessex <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/lutonoutlaws/info/user=Wessex' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 16/2/2026, 11:47:06, in reply to "Re: Free Speech Union"

"Trumpism" .....WTAF?? are you a complete knob?

Only dead fish swim with the tide.

Re: Free Speech Union

Posted by Poster from the past <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/lutonoutlaws/info/user=Poster+from+the+past' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 15/2/2026, 19:24:39, in reply to "Re: Free Speech Union"

I think Trump is someone who has been able to exploit public sentiment to get into power in the first place. Something the Democrats failed to address.

I think Trump is challenging the established world order. Which is dangerous on the one hand because of unforeseen consequences but possibly good in some ways too.

I think all human systems are inherently imperfect and they always will be. So from that starting point I think the best system is the least worst. I have only ever experienced democracy and the rule of law under a nation state and a mixed economy. Is it perfect? No. Is there a better system? Possibly. Do I know what that might be? I think something that addresses wealth inequality and creates a meritocracy of sorts whereby decent behaviour is rewarded. What constitutes decent behaviour? Too complicated to explain in this post but basically prioritising the rights of nice people! Would that leave us as a nation state vulnerable to other countries both economically and politically? Almost certainly unfortunately.

So back to answering your question, I see Islamism as a method of gaining control and then maintaining that control brutally if necessary against any other way of life, because that is what Islamists themselves say. To their credit at least they are transparent about that. So I think long-term wherever they gain a foothold it then becomes difficult to change. Iran is a good example.

Trump on the other hand seems to be about getting things on his terms and using the might of the US to achieve that in foreign policy. I don't know a huge amount of what is going on domestically in the US but I don't like a lot of the bits I do see. I don't like the wealth disparity, I don't like the fractious race relations, I don't like the gun culture, I don't like the apparent low standard of state education, I don't like the lack of NHS style health provision, I don't like the dominance of the car culture which seems to have taken priority over town/city planning, I don't like the soulless architecture in most places, the drug culture/health epidemic. So I guess I don't really think very highly of the US in general but I do like the religious freedoms at least in law if not always in practice, and the same again for the rule of law. Is Trump going to push that way of life elsewhere? Well yes to a certain extent. We've been heavily influenced by US culture and business in the UK since the first world war and especially so since the late fifties early sixties. But it has it's limitations and can only get so far in a lot of other places.

Can I ask what concerns you most about Trump and what you think might happen around the world because of him?

outlaws is not the barometer of sanity. You're either Luton full tilt or you are nothing. The end.

Re: Free Speech Union

Posted by Jake <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/lutonoutlaws/info/user=Jake' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 15/2/2026, 19:53:58, in reply to "Re: Free Speech Union"

Trump cares about nothing other than having power.

He cares nothing for the human race.
I don't think he cares about Americans he would probably happy if all Democrats died.

The vitriol he uses, has become common language and is so uncaring and has an influence on everyone.

He doesn't have a compassionate bone in his body, it is all about him.

He ignores science, tells blatant lies ,he is a bully,in fact I can't think of anything that is good about him.

I will have to put it back to you, and ask you if you can think of any one thing that is better in the world because he is president because my list of negatives is very long.

Bring compassion back.

Re: Free Speech Union

I like the fact he has removed Maduro from power because he was behind Venezuela supporting Iran. I don't know if that was the real reason but it makes things more difficult for the Iranian regime and therefore also more difficult for Putin as well who has been doing deals with Iran to help him in his war on Ukraine.

Remains to be seen where all this will go but if the Iranian regime collapsed and Putin too I will be very pleased. Obviously that would depend on the replacements being better which can't be guaranteed but I would hope so.

outlaws is not the barometer of sanity. You're either Luton full tilt or you are nothing. The end.

Re: Free Speech Union

Posted by Jake <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/lutonoutlaws/info/user=Jake' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 15/2/2026, 20:41:13, in reply to "Re: Free Speech Union"

I have to say I think you are very naive if you think the removal of Maduro was for any other reason than the oil and who controls it

Power

I am very uncomfortable with the fact that the US think it is their job to police the world for their own gain.

Bring compassion back.

Re: Free Speech Union

I'm open minded to the possibility that might be part of it. Even if it wasn't even part of the reason for deposing him I think it has been a blow for the Iranian regime anyway which is a good thing in my opinion.

And referring back to my point in a previous reply to you, the US policing the world is probably the least worst of the options otherwise available in that capacity. Although I agree that doesn't really mean very much.

outlaws is not the barometer of sanity. You're either Luton full tilt or you are nothing. The end.

Re: Free Speech Union

Posted by bodger1 <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/lutonoutlaws/info/user=bodger1' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 15/2/2026, 21:00:53, in reply to "Re: Free Speech Union"

“I’m open to the possibility that MIGHT be PART of it”

I’m now open to a distinct reality you are taking the piss out of all of us on this thread.

At least I bloody hope so.

Fair play.

Re: Free Speech Union

No I'm not taking the piss.

Why is it such a leap of faith that deposing Maduro would weaken the Iranian regime which would be in the interests of the US? Makes a lot of sense to me.

outlaws is not the barometer of sanity. You're either Luton full tilt or you are nothing. The end.

Re: Free Speech Union

Posted by Jake <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/lutonoutlaws/info/user=Jake' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 15/2/2026, 21:23:12, in reply to "Re: Free Speech Union"

I doubt that was their priority,.
Oil gives them power.
Minerals and oil from Greenland give them power.
Tariffs against Europe even if they hurt their own people give them power

As I said the list of negatives is very long.

They saved us in the 1940s so anything they do is ok.

Bring compassion back.

Re: Free Speech Union

I think that is the obvious perspective and I agree that makes most sense about controlling resources. But think you and Bodger are both downplaying the significance of being able to hold the Iranians in check. Iran is pivotal to Middle Eastern politics. If Trump can control them to a greater extent that makes for some massive bargaining power right across the global stage.

The big fight is really US Vs China. So tying up the rare earth minerals in Greenland and the oil in Venezuela makes obvious sense but the middle east is also massively important. US and China will both want whatever they can get from the region in my opinion. India holds the key to preventing Chinese expansion if they were ever to invade Taiwan. Modi is a Hindu nationalist currently going along with US preferences regarding Russia. It's all just speculation on my part but basic allies would be

US, Israel, UK, EU, Australia, NZ, Japan, Canada, Scandinavian countries,

Vs

China, Russia, Belarus, Iran, North Korea,

And then probably but not definitely India, Pakistan, Venezuela now, with the US

Which leaves South America, Africa and the rest of middle east to pick a side.

Saudi would go US, but what about the rest?

It's interesting to me to think about this sort of thing.

outlaws is not the barometer of sanity. You're either Luton full tilt or you are nothing. The end.

Re: Free Speech Union

Posted by Jake <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/lutonoutlaws/info/user=Jake' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 15/2/2026, 21:55:55, in reply to "Re: Free Speech Union"

Well maybe I am too simplistic, but I don't see the world in the terms of a possible world war.

For me it is about human decency, the West has always held it self up as the blueprint for democracy, honesty, justice, and moral standards.

The US have lost all sight of that and the world is worse for it.

We have been living in the best 50 years in the history of humanity and we have now started the decline.

Bring compassion back.

Re: Free Speech Union

I agree the post world war was a golden age and that is fading fast.

I think we're at a crossroads now with regards to where humanity goes next. I think literally anything is possible, from the best to the worst things imaginable.

outlaws is not the barometer of sanity. You're either Luton full tilt or you are nothing. The end.

Re: Free Speech Union

https://www.forbes.com/sites/melikkaylan/2026/02/09/what-next-for-iran-and-venezuela/

outlaws is not the barometer of sanity. You're either Luton full tilt or you are nothing. The end.

Re: Free Speech Union

Posted by Jake <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/lutonoutlaws/info/user=Jake' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 15/2/2026, 21:40:57, in reply to "Re: Free Speech Union"

Very well written.
What point is it you want to make with this article?

Bring compassion back.

Re: Free Speech Union

Just that it might have been central to the US decision to take out Maduro because of the Venezuela/Iran cooperation.

There's a school of thought that when the US bombed Iran last year they were targeting a nuclear power plant which was being used to mine Bitcoin which was a way for the Iranian regime to sidestep international financial sanctions. Again when you think about that it makes quite a lot of sense even though at first it seems a bit out there.

outlaws is not the barometer of sanity. You're either Luton full tilt or you are nothing. The end.

Re: Free Speech Union

Great article.

Prey tell. What did you learn from that article?

The Iranian regime is weakened by what %.

The article does not say about the stolen oils money has gone to.

Billions to American oil companies is the answer and you say you are against the wealth divide? You cheer it on ffs.

Re: Free Speech Union

I didn't learn anything I just presented it as an example of what I was saying to you before I googled it.

You can't seriously be saying that Maduro should have stayed in power? He ignored an election and was supporting the Iranian regime. If the US gain oil as result which strengthens their position against China that's good isn't it?

Jake started this tangent suggesting I am naive but sorry I think it's naive to think all the major world powers aren't jockeying for a stronger position and that will always mean they seek to control resources. That's just historical fact and unlikely to ever change. It doesn't exclude my desire for improved wealth distribution. That is down to global taxation policies which is something else entirely.

outlaws is not the barometer of sanity. You're either Luton full tilt or you are nothing. The end.

Re: Free Speech Union

Posted by Jake <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/lutonoutlaws/info/user=Jake' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 15/2/2026, 22:01:26, in reply to "Re: Free Speech Union"

You linked it to Iran.
It was me that said it was about controlling resources and the power that comes with that.

Bring compassion back.

Re: Free Speech Union

Sorry I am guilty of skipping past things that are entirely obvious to me. I did it with MG below regarding terror stats and I did it here with what to me is so obvious about the US desire to control resources that I didn't even bother referring to it, I just jumped straight past it for additional possible motives.

outlaws is not the barometer of sanity. You're either Luton full tilt or you are nothing. The end.

Re: Free Speech Union

What’s good about the Venezuelan people getting robbed by a crooked government to then get robbed by Trump?

You seem to admire Trump despite all that was posted below.

I find that disturbing. You also seem content with him invading other countries and putting his despots in power. £40 billon for an Argentina twat like him while his own place is complete mess.

Trump also ignored an election result and some died as a result

Re: Free Speech Union

We haven't seen yet if the Venezuelan people will be robbed to the extent they were under Maduro. Trump will presumably want to stem the flow of refugees from Venezuela which would be counter to your suggestion.

I didn't know that Trump was behind Milei gaining power? Are you saying Trump spent £40bn on making that happen? I honestly know very little of South American politics except for the well known US interference throughout the 20th century.

I'm not a fan of Trump just to be clear, but I am looking at his intervention in Venezuela with the most hopeful stance I can come up with.

Yes agreed Trump was instrumental in the chaos that led to the deaths at the capitol. Disgusting situation.

outlaws is not the barometer of sanity. You're either Luton full tilt or you are nothing. The end.

Re: Free Speech Union

Yes 40 billion while his own people can’t even afford cancer care.

You want him running the world? No ta.

I like you P and I reckon we could talk all night while getting pissed in a pub.

It’s actually good to debate without resorting to crap if you know what I mean.

Goodnight.

Re: Free Speech Union

Up the fucking mighty Hats.

Good night bodger1 mate.

outlaws is not the barometer of sanity. You're either Luton full tilt or you are nothing. The end.

Re: Free Speech Union

Posted by Jake <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/lutonoutlaws/info/user=Jake' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 15/2/2026, 22:22:41, in reply to "Re: Free Speech Union"

Have a read of the book The Jakata method.
The US have been behind regime change for over 100 years.

As Bodger said it is good to be able to have a discussion without playground taunts.

Cheers

Bring compassion back.

Re: Free Speech Union

👍

outlaws is not the barometer of sanity. You're either Luton full tilt or you are nothing. The end.

Re: Free Speech Union

I’d also add.

My postings tonight would no doubt get me sacked in the states or worse.

Free speech eh.

Re: Free Speech Union

Posted by bbb <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/lutonoutlaws/info/user=bbb' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 15/2/2026, 20:07:59, in reply to "Re: Free Speech Union"
WUM 2

It's noticeable you're only concentrating on 1 side of this discussion.

Re: Free Speech Union

Posted by Andy Cappuccino <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/lutonoutlaws/info/user=Andy+Cappuccino' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 15/2/2026, 14:55:22, in reply to "Free Speech Union"

Shock horror

65% for Nige

Re: Free Speech Union

Posted by bbb <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/lutonoutlaws/info/user=bbb' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 15/2/2026, 15:14:21, in reply to "Re: Free Speech Union"
WUM 2

Yep. Funny how it's not on the front page of the BBC News website. I notice they're choosing to ignore the disgusting things Rupert Lowe has uncovered aswell.

Re: Free Speech Union

Why don’t you share his allegations.

You keep banging on about it.

Are they true or does it come from Facebook?

Re: Free Speech Union

Posted by bbb <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/lutonoutlaws/info/user=bbb' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 15/2/2026, 15:26:56, in reply to "Re: Free Speech Union"
WUM 2

The day where I do anything a cowardly oddball like you says, will never come.

It's out there if you go looking for it.

Re: Free Speech Union

I don’t use weirdo far right sites as my go to for information.

I’d end up like you.

Re: Free Speech Union

Posted by bbb <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/lutonoutlaws/info/user=bbb' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 15/2/2026, 15:40:52, in reply to "Re: Free Speech Union"
WUM 2

I don't use the dark Web for sites on children for my enjoyment.

I'd end up like you.

Re: Free Speech Union

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

A far right special.

“Lets call him a nonce when all else fails”

The stereotype fits like a glove.

Re: Free Speech Union

Posted by bbb <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/lutonoutlaws/info/user=bbb' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 15/2/2026, 15:48:08, in reply to "Re: Free Speech Union"
WUM 2

Nah, your history on here shows you're a complete wrong un. Absolutely nothing to do with right or left.

Re: Free Speech Union

It’s not me who defends nonces on here for sure.

👍

Re: Free Speech Union

Posted by bbb <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/lutonoutlaws/info/user=bbb' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 15/2/2026, 16:00:24, in reply to "Re: Free Speech Union"
WUM 2

But you do enjoy talking about other posters children. You cowardly nonce.

Re: Free Speech Union

Excuse me.

Do you want to explain that lie you dribbling cretin.

Re: Free Speech Union

Posted by bbb <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/lutonoutlaws/info/user=bbb' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 15/2/2026, 16:07:45, in reply to "Re: Free Speech Union"
WUM 2

It's not a lie though is it, you fuckin sex case. Under your multiple names over the years you've been guilty of it.
Given youve brought my kids into conversations on here on several occasions, I'd be more than happy to discuss it with you.

Re: Free Speech Union

Thought so.

What do you even get out of this narcissistic crap is beyond me.

You need help.

Re: Free Speech Union

Posted by bbb <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/lutonoutlaws/info/user=bbb' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 15/2/2026, 16:23:16, in reply to "Re: Free Speech Union"
WUM 2

There's no turning it round, you fuckin nonce.

Re: Free Speech Union

Bye treacle.

Re: Free Speech Union

Posted by Kbot <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/lutonoutlaws/info/user=Kbot' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 15/2/2026, 15:37:49, in reply to "Re: Free Speech Union"

Excellent😂😂😂😂

Re: Free Speech Union

The Islamist movement is highly motivated, very organised and very well funded. They operate globally and insert people sympathetic to their aims in positions of influence including politics and educational establishments.

We all need to wake up to the threat they pose.

outlaws is not the barometer of sanity. You're either Luton full tilt or you are nothing. The end.

Re: Free Speech Union

Posted by crumpsall <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/lutonoutlaws/info/user=crumpsall' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 15/2/2026, 15:29:19, in reply to "Re: Free Speech Union"
MIB

That's not just true of Islam, is it?

You could say the same of all three major Abrahamic faiths, arguably more so in the other two examples.

And you can track that back for best part of 1400 years.

Re: Free Speech Union

There's a difference between Islam/Muslims and Islamism/Islamists crumps.

Islamists are the extremists who frequently use violence to further their aims.

outlaws is not the barometer of sanity. You're either Luton full tilt or you are nothing. The end.

Re: Free Speech Union

And you don't think Christianity and Judaism have been/are similarly used by extremists with an agenda?

Re: Free Speech Union

Yes but to a far lesser extent. False equivalence is entirely unhelpful.

I recently heard a stat which I can't verify I'm afraid but it stated that religious terrorist attacks for the last decade were made up of 98% Islamist versus 2% for all other religions combined. If that is true it rather validates my argument.

I will try to find it and post on here.

outlaws is not the barometer of sanity. You're either Luton full tilt or you are nothing. The end.

Re: Free Speech Union

Would you not define the illegal 'settlers' attacks on Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank as 'terrorism'?

Or the government sponsored land grabs as a form of organisational terrorism?

I don't trust any extremist and certainly not any fundamentalist and to limit that to Islamists is disingenuous.

Don't get me wrong, I am horrified by it all and of course with ISIS etc islamist terror has been prominent - but not exclusively so.

Re: Free Speech Union

I would class the attacks on Gaza as a war between Israel and Hamas, in response to the terrorist attacks carried out by Hamas on October 7th 2023.

The West Bank situation is more complicated in my opinion but that is territory won following the war with Jordan. The fact that Israel has allowed any concessions there demonstrates that they have gone beyond what they had to. Having said that I don't agree with the aggression of the Jewish settlers in that zone forcing Palestinians from their homes there. I still need to study this more as my focus has been mainly on Gaza so far.

My final analysis though is currently in support of Israel because they have a population of about 25% Muslims within Israel who enjoy equal rights and co-exist peacefully. Unfortunately the same cannot be said in reverse when you look at how Jews are treated within Muslim countries now.

Jews have 1 country where they can live without threat from a higher authority. Muslims have over 50 countries.

Jews set up Israel in response to the pogroms in Europe and Russia and the Holocaust under the Nazis.

The Nazis formed an alliance with the Ottomans during the second world war based on anti-Semitism. The Nazis were defeated but anti-Semitic sentiment in the middle east has been able to continue, sponsored by Iran, Qatar, the Muslim Brotherhood and their terrorist proxies.

I am currently studying the whole subject and learning along the way. But I am very wary of the spread of the supposed Free Palestine movement around the world. I see it as a method of recruiting naive westerners to ultimately further the aims of violent anti-Semitic Islamists.

I don't believe Hamas cares about Palestine or Palestinians. I think they only care about enriching themselves financially and eradicating all Jews and the state of Israel and anyone they recruit/hoodwink into helping them to achieve that is being used as a means to that end.

I agree with you that the real problem is extremism of any kind. I see the threat of Islamism as being far greater than any other form of extremism at the moment but am happy to listen to counter arguments on this specific point.

outlaws is not the barometer of sanity. You're either Luton full tilt or you are nothing. The end.

Re: Free Speech Union

You really do need to do some more research if you believe this to be true:

My final analysis though is currently in support of Israel because they have a population of about 25% Muslims within Israel who enjoy equal rights and co-exist peacefully.

Equal rights? Categorically untrue. Co-exist peacefully? When muslims are treated appallingly?

You should perhaps also look at how much land the illegal settlers have grabbed, the outrageously unfair levels of access to basic resources like water and the wanton, unpunished and indeed encouraged destruction of peaceful farmers etc.

I spent some time working (not as a job) with Jewish and Christian human rights groups on this subject.

Hamas are (pardon language) cunts who only care about themselves but they have grown as a response to awful repression

You appear to have only looked at one side of this situation. Personally I am fully supportive of the nation of Israel but consider Netanyahu to be a war criminal, holding on to power and sacrificing endless lives to stay out of jail.

As an aside, and for context, I have happily and harmoniously lived amidst the UK's second largest Jewish community for 40 odd years and know people who were in the synagogue less than half a mile from me when it was attacked. You probably have no concept how shocked our community was/is and/or how happily Jewish, Muslim and Christian people get along together and support each other.

Re: Free Speech Union

We had a discussion on here about 2 weeks before the attack in Manchester when the 2 Jews were killed. It was basically what I was saying and you were saying you live in an area with a lot of Muslims and everyone gets on without any problems. Then 2 weeks later the attack happened. My point being we, especially Jews, are living under a constant threat from Islamists, even in neighbourhoods that have long enjoyed amicable interfaith friendships, whereby some extremists can mount attacks on innocent victims. Please understand I am making a clear distinction between moderate Muslims and Islamists. Therein lies the problem, there is a real and present threat from Islamists in the UK and I am encouraged by people such as yourself to stop being 'disingenuous' because there's also Christian and Jewish extremists as well. Of course there are, but how many terror attacks have they carried out in the UK to date?

And point of order, you say "Equal rights? Categorically untrue. Co-exist peacefully? When muslims are treated appallingly?" I am not talking about in the West Bank. I am talking about Israel itself. I've already said I disagree with the treatment of Palestinians in the West Bank and I also need to study the West Bank in more detail. If you can provide instances within Israel itself of unequal treatment of faiths then please share that with me so that I can broaden my understanding.

Finally your last paragraph is out of order. You are resistant against me making a specific point about a genuine threat posed by a subset of the Muslim community, ie Islamists, and have leapt from that to implying that I am somehow suggesting there can't be harmony between Islamic, Christian and Jewish groups. That's unreasonable of you.

outlaws is not the barometer of sanity. You're either Luton full tilt or you are nothing. The end.

Re: Free Speech Union

If you're genuinely interested in facts about muslims in Israel, why not start by doing something as simple as Googling 'arab rights in Israel'?

Re: Free Speech Union

Have done, got this:

Arab citizens of Israel (roughly 21% of the population) possess equal legal rights, including voting and representation, but face significant socioeconomic disparities, institutional discrimination, and lower standards in education and housing. While not required to serve in the IDF, they often experience unequal treatment regarding land rights and political freedoms.

Thank you, will keep on studying and trying to keep an open mind.

outlaws is not the barometer of sanity. You're either Luton full tilt or you are nothing. The end.

Re: Free Speech Union

Surely you got more than that? I did when Googling it.

Re: Free Speech Union

Yes but that's the summary. Just wanted to demonstrate to you I am genuinely open minded on all of this and not a right wing extremist!

I want world peace.

outlaws is not the barometer of sanity. You're either Luton full tilt or you are nothing. The end.

Re: Free Speech Union

Palestine murder rate solved by police 15%

Israel murder rate solved by police 65%.

Just one example.

Hardly equality.

Re: Free Speech Union

That's reasonable and does seem to demonstrate some sort of bias from the police in this specific area.

I was thinking more about legal rights per se. Which in law Muslims are on the same level as any other Israeli. The same can't be said of non Muslims in Islamic countries unfortunately. It's a one way street in those countries.

I'll keep studying and try to get a more accurate picture as I go along.

For what it's worth, I actually don't really agree with any of the Jewish, Christian or Muslim religions though. I think they are all too faith based in their conclusions on what merits correct behaviour. And this leads to seemingly unresolvable disagreements between the extremists within their respective groups.

outlaws is not the barometer of sanity. You're either Luton full tilt or you are nothing. The end.

Re: Free Speech Union

I don’t disagree with most of what you post.

Islam is a religion that has more issues than most.

However extremism is a massive problem worldwide and is growing rapidly in America.

The closing down and defunding of schools, colleges and universities who allow free speech unless they convert to the ideology of far right evangelicalism should worry everyone.

Religion is a proxy for these nutters, with or without religion they’d be doing it using some other bollox. It’s all about power, money and control.

Re: Free Speech Union

Yeah good points. One counter argument would be that universities in US have been targeted by a variety of foreign groups all covertly pushing their own agendas. So whilst I don't necessarily agree with the Trump administration's approach I do think there are genuine grounds for concern about foreign influence within higher education, including influence that seeks to undermine US and/or Western values.

outlaws is not the barometer of sanity. You're either Luton full tilt or you are nothing. The end.

Re: Free Speech Union

Posted by Jake <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/lutonoutlaws/info/user=Jake' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 15/2/2026, 18:47:57, in reply to "Re: Free Speech Union"

US Values, well now there's a subject.

Bring compassion back.

Re: Free Speech Union

Ha!

outlaws is not the barometer of sanity. You're either Luton full tilt or you are nothing. The end.

Re: Free Speech Union

The law already exist to arrest anyone accused of that.

With respect that’s Trumps line.

Claiming anyone criticising Israels actions in Gaza as domestic terrorism.

Anyone criticising him is also a domestic terrorist.

You get the picture I’m sure.

Re: Free Speech Union

Found it, apologies it is in reference to religious terrorist attacks since 9/11 not the last decade. My point still stands though, assuming this is accurate:

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DSTPKQVkuVu/?igsh=NDNpMGtlMHI1Zmly

outlaws is not the barometer of sanity. You're either Luton full tilt or you are nothing. The end.

Re: Free Speech Union

Posted by MG <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/lutonoutlaws/info/user=MG' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 15/2/2026, 16:20:00, in reply to "Re: Free Speech Union"

Some random guy on Insta is what you see as proof?

Re: Free Speech Union

He cites around 65000 Islamist terror attacks worldwide since 9/11 which I believe is broadly accurate. Do you dispute this stat?

outlaws is not the barometer of sanity. You're either Luton full tilt or you are nothing. The end.

Re: Free Speech Union

Posted by MG <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/lutonoutlaws/info/user=MG' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 15/2/2026, 17:05:40, in reply to "Re: Free Speech Union"

No, I was just hoping for some credible proof of what you are saying. Some guy on Instagram doesn't do it for me.

I actually suspect he's right or not far off without looking but hell if I was going to accept it as fact it wouldn't be from some random, unsubstantiated Instagram video.

Re: Free Speech Union

I haven't accepted it as fact though have I. In both my references to it above I have stated that I can't verify it and also included the comment, if it is accurate, ie I am open to it being inaccurate. But having said that we both seem to be in agreement that 65000 attacks seems likely, so I don't really understand what we are disagreeing about here?

outlaws is not the barometer of sanity. You're either Luton full tilt or you are nothing. The end.

Re: Free Speech Union

Posted by MG <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/lutonoutlaws/info/user=MG' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 15/2/2026, 17:35:38, in reply to "Re: Free Speech Union"

I'm suggesting that you're making an important, but possibly controversial point, and that before you do that it would be better to do some due diligence.

That's all.

Re: Free Speech Union

Fair enough but I have always said I am happy to discuss/debate things on here. And that remains the case. If people can educate me I am happy to be educated. If someone is expected to know everything, and must know everything, before they comment, that's kind of unrealistic don't you think? And if people disagree isn't it on them to do the work required to convince me otherwise? Preferably without conflating things?

It just seems that so far on this thread, which was specifically about the right to be able criticise Islam I have been accused so far of not knowing about Evangelicalism, Christian and Jewish extremism, the situation in Gaza, Israel and the West Bank, and dubious nature of Instagram as a source of information despite that person broadly agreeing with the main statistics in the Instagram post.

People on here often criticise 'whataboutery' yet those same people seem to be doing precisely that in this thread?

I don't know everything, I have never claimed I do. I have simply raised my concern with Islamism because I see it as a creeping influence in the UK and I don't like it. I think it should be challenged. That's my opinion and other people are welcome to disagree with me about that.

Carry on.

outlaws is not the barometer of sanity. You're either Luton full tilt or you are nothing. The end.

Re: Free Speech Union

Posted by Jake <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/lutonoutlaws/info/user=Jake' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 15/2/2026, 18:14:23, in reply to "Re: Free Speech Union"

I agree Islamism needs to be challenged.

The problem is how do you find out how much of a problem it is when everything is so skewed by extreme views nowadays.

As others have said the majority of Muslims are peaceful and quietly get on with their lives.

As far as the problem in Israel is concerned, I have read alot about its formation and the problems arising.

I am part Jew myself. my grandmother was evacuated from Germany so I was sympathetic to their cause and the early hostility they had to contend with. But no more sympathy from me.

As Crumps says below Hamas are cunts but so are those that have slaughtered 10s of thousands of Palestinians.
The word genocide is not easy to use in this situation but is the only word that fits the crime.

The situation in the middle east is so complex many problems stemming from this countries involvement there, our forefathers have a lot to answer for.

Bring compassion back.

Re: Free Speech Union

All good points.

Moderate Muslims also hate the extremists from what I have been told so why there is always so much resistance to criticising Islamism I just do not know. Surely everyone apart from the Islamists is united against them? They actually make things worse for the moderate Muslims so there's no reason for any objection as far as I can see.

outlaws is not the barometer of sanity. You're either Luton full tilt or you are nothing. The end.

Re: Free Speech Union

Posted by MG <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/lutonoutlaws/info/user=MG' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 15/2/2026, 18:00:04, in reply to "Re: Free Speech Union"

What's the point if you are making points and have no clue whether they are true or not?

I don't expect you to know everything, indeed anything, I just hope that if you're going to make such a strong suggestion about such an important topic you'd have based it on a bit more than just an Instagram post.

Otherwise, like I say, what's the point of the discussion?

Re: Free Speech Union

Because I still believe in the point that was made initially by myself and also in the Instagram post that Islamism poses a serious threat to peace around the world. I base that on other statistics I have seen and previously shared on here. Even if those statistics are false or skewed, just purely from the events reported in the news it's obvious there are more Islamist terrorist attacks in this country than any other form of terrorism isn't it? Hence that's why my focus is on Islamism. If there were more attacks from Christian extremists my focus would be on that, or Jewish extremists, or literally any other kind of extremists. But there aren't as far as I am aware so it's not necessary.

The fact I have to argue so much within this thread to repeatedly state what my concern is, and why, rather serves to prove the concern raised in the first post on this thread does it not?

There's a movement to silence dissent/criticism of Islam in general, to the point of reinstating the crime of blasphemy if some are able to get their way, which paves the way for Islamists to wreak havoc. The fact it happens to be Islam is irrelevant to the broader concern of demanding the right to be able to criticise anyone/anything but as far as I can see there aren't any other concerted efforts by other groups to silence criticism of them, hence I haven't felt the need to raise this issue in relation to other groups.

outlaws is not the barometer of sanity. You're either Luton full tilt or you are nothing. The end.

Re: Free Speech Union

Hold your horses. I'm not saying you are trying to silence me. I don't even understand how you have come to that conclusion?

If you are referring to the first paragraph in my post before this one I am referring to the 5 member panel, and their associates, in the working panel tasked with establishing a definition of Anti-Muslim hatred/Islamophobia.

They have all been associated with Islamist individuals and/or organisations. It's all there in the link in the initial post on this thread.

Islamists by definition want to live under Sharia law, which does not permit criticism of Allah, the Quaran , Mohammed or Islam itself.

This isn't me being on shaky ground and unable to provide any evidence to back that up. Any basic study on this says so.

Just for expediency's sake, here is a quick copy and paste summary from Google:

Criticizing Islam in countries governed by Sharia law is extremely dangerous and often illegal, with at least 13 nations imposing severe penalties, including the death penalty for blasphemy or apostasy. Such criticism is typically treated as a criminal offense against the state or religion.
Legal Consequences: In many jurisdictions with Sharia-based legal systems, questioning Islamic principles, the Quran, or the Prophet Muhammad can lead to prosecution for blasphemy or apostasy.
Examples: Countries like Pakistan and Nigeria have implemented, or in the past enforced, capital punishment for such actions.
Risk Level: While some interpretations of Sharia, often championed by moderate scholars, argue against criminalizing apostasy, conservative interpretations dominate in many places, making open criticism a high-risk activity.
Therefore, public, direct criticism of Islam is generally not tolerated and is prosecuted as a severe offense.

I don't believe in Islam and I don't want to face capital punishment in the future if I want to criticise it. Do you?

outlaws is not the barometer of sanity. You're either Luton full tilt or you are nothing. The end.

Re: Free Speech Union

Posted by MG <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/lutonoutlaws/info/user=MG' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 15/2/2026, 19:03:23, in reply to "Re: Free Speech Union"

You don't understand, when you wrote this . . .

"The fact I have to argue so much within this thread to repeatedly state what my concern is, and why, rather serves to prove the concern raised in the first post on this thread does it not?

There's a movement to silence dissent/criticism of Islam in general, to the point of reinstating the crime of blasphemy if some are able to get their way, which paves the way for Islamists to wreak havoc. The fact it happens to be Islam is irrelevant to the broader concern of demanding the right to be able to criticise anyone/anything but as far as I can see there aren't any other concerted efforts by other groups to silence criticism of them, hence I haven't felt the need to raise this issue in relation to other groups.
"

In response to me asking the really simple question, are you sure about your facts?

Re: Free Speech Union

Fair enough I went off on a tangent to make a broader point but as we seemed to be in agreement I didn't see the point in providing anything to back up what we both seemed to believe.

Here's a Google response:

Between 1979 and April 2024, there were 66,872 recorded Islamist terrorist attacks worldwide, resulting in at least 249,941 deaths, according to a Fondapol study. Over 96% of these attacks occurred in the Middle East, North Africa, South Asia, and Sub-Saharan Africa. The majority of victims are Muslims, with 89.5% of attacks occurring in Muslim-majority countries.
Key Findings on Islamist Terrorism:
Most Affected Countries: Afghanistan, Somalia, and Iraq.
Targets: Military (34%), Civilians (27.7%), and Police (15.3%).
Weapons: Firearms are the most used (26,925), followed by explosives (25,832).
Europe: France is the most affected country in the European Union, with 85 attacks and 334 deaths between 1979 and April 2024.
Recent Trends: The epicenter of global terrorism has shifted to the Central Sahel region of sub-Saharan Africa.
US Impact: Between 1994 and early 2025, 140 jihadist-inspired attacks or plots occurred in the United States, with spikes corresponding to the rise of the Islamic State.

And here's a few links that cite the amount of Islamist terror attacks worldwide:

https://www.fondapol.org/en/study/islamist-terrorist-attacks-in-the-world-1979-2024/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Islamist_terrorist_attacks

Some UK centric links:

https://www.mi5.gov.uk/history/mi5-in-the-1990s-and-2000s/the-rise-of-the-islamist-terrorist-threat

https://www.isdglobal.org/digital-dispatch/twenty-years-on-assessing-the-uk-islamist-terrorism-landscape-since-7-7/

Could do more but I don't think it's necessary do you?

outlaws is not the barometer of sanity. You're either Luton full tilt or you are nothing. The end.

Re: Free Speech Union

Er....have you ever tried to criticise Zionism or complain about Palestine?

Now that IS where criticism is silenced or falsely labeled antisemitism*

(thus muddying the water about the real thing - which most definitely and obviously exists, including in my experience among some of the right wing who now claim to support Israel. Farage and co, for instance.)

Re: Free Speech Union

Yes. I used to be anti-Israel on social media years ago and a Jewish work colleague challenged me. It was the first and only time anyone has ever challenged me on that. And she raised enough good points for me to reconsider and at that time I changed my opinion to believing that both sides were guilty of abhorrent behaviour, rather than just Israel.

I still believe that, but I also think at this point in time that Israel has a right to exist. And I really dislike Islamism. It's an absolutely awful ideology in my opinion.

I also think antisemitism is very real, unjustified to a very great extent, but also used lazily by some as a slur against those they have an ulterior motive against, just as other terms are such as Islamophobe or racist. All of these things are real but all of these things are also falsely applied in some instances, to great misfortune for all.

outlaws is not the barometer of sanity. You're either Luton full tilt or you are nothing. The end.

Re: Free Speech Union

Posted by MG <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/lutonoutlaws/info/user=MG' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 15/2/2026, 18:28:40, in reply to "Re: Free Speech Union"

Fucking hell.

Now I'm trying to silence you???

That's off the scale mad, I just asked if you could back your point up because I think it's important.

It turns out you can't, even though yes we both *think* you might be right, so you've gone off one one . . .

You're actually providing evidence to the opposite point. Is there an attempt to silence criticism of Islam, OR, do a lot of people criticising Islam do it on shaky evidence and immediately play the victim card when asked even the most basic of questions about what they are saying?

Re: Free Speech Union

Sorry posted my response to you in the wrong place

https://members.boardhost.com/lutonoutlaws/msg/1771180996.html

outlaws is not the barometer of sanity. You're either Luton full tilt or you are nothing. The end.

Re: Free Speech Union

Can't open instagram etc, sorry

Re: Free Speech Union

I’m not disagreeing with that post.

Yet again though I point you in the direction of the looney tunes in the states who are using the same methods, inc religion.

What’s the difference?

Re: Free Speech Union

What specifically are you referring to in the US? I can't really comment on such a vague claim. Not that I am likely to disagree but I am specifically raising my concerns with Islamism.

outlaws is not the barometer of sanity. You're either Luton full tilt or you are nothing. The end.

Re: Free Speech Union

Using religion in politics as a force of hate.

Cleansing gov agencies of anyone who has ever criticised Trump and co. Sacking workers at random.

Christianity being used as a weapon as the far right are trying to do here.

If you just concentrate on Islam and it’s issues while ignoring the same crap you dilute your argument for me.

Re: Free Speech Union

I don't disagree those things are bad. But I am concerned with nefarious movements in this country and Islamism is one of those, whereas I don't think the same can be said of the things you have raised.

To put it into context I am also concerned about the influence of China, Russia and the extremely wealthy on this country.

I think the frequency of events pertaining to Islamism justifies the increased attention I pay towards it compared to the other concerns listed above.

outlaws is not the barometer of sanity. You're either Luton full tilt or you are nothing. The end.

Re: Free Speech Union

I don’t see an iota of difference.

Both are dangerously undermining a way of life in a civilised world.

An ideology of division and hate which compliments extreme wealth by a tiny minority.

Re: Free Speech Union

That's fair enough but I don't think they are really identical.

The first difference for me is the extent and frequency of the threat which I feel is far worse of a threat from Islamism both globally and within just the UK compared to a Christian extremism threat.

The second difference for me is that Christian extremism isn't going to massively alter my way of life if it achieved it's aims, whereas Islamism would.

Thirdly it seems you are more referring to US foreign policy, is that correct or have I got that wrong? Or do you mean US domestic policy?

outlaws is not the barometer of sanity. You're either Luton full tilt or you are nothing. The end.

Re: Free Speech Union

Both.

Do some reading on what is actually going on over there.

Re: Free Speech Union

Point me towards something specific and I will happily do so.

outlaws is not the barometer of sanity. You're either Luton full tilt or you are nothing. The end.

Re: Free Speech Union

Bloody hell I already have.

The use of evangelicalism as a weopon of

And all the above in my post earlier.

It’s almost like you are happy to turn a blind eye which for me makes your postings irrelevant to me on Islam.

It’s hypocrisy at its finest.

Re: Free Speech Union

Those that cry”free speech” are the same ones who don’t really want it.

Look at the USA for balance.

The whole lot of them are disingenuous at best.

Re: Free Speech Union

You should be allowed to criticise anyone/anything without fear of violent reprisal and/or criminal charges.

outlaws is not the barometer of sanity. You're either Luton full tilt or you are nothing. The end.

Re: Free Speech Union

I could not agree more.

Sadly in an orchestrated divisive world in which we ( most ) are willing participants they get away with it.

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