Luton Outlaws - The Avenue of Evil

Power Court finances

Posted by Ronnies Finger <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/lutonoutlaws/info/user=Ronnies+Finger' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 3/10/2025, 13:27:12

No way a dig at 20/20 , but just some clarification as to past history and what’s been stated.

Original design by And Architects showed different stands to reflect Kenilworth Road?

I assume costings were made for this deign pre Covid?

Then we ended up in Prem.

So maybe 10million spent on KR upgrades?

So with windfall from Prem, a decision was made, for a complete redesign from ground up, including a different orientation to the aspect of the ground.??
.
New Architects appointed.

And Architects shelved( with a substantial claim from them?)

During this period costs for materials risen by 60%???

20/20 needing a “ bridging loan” using my basic language, for the build of the stadium , and will be paid back, once flats / apartments sold ?
Thus leaving us debt free?
Is that a correct timeline/ history/ where we stand now?

Tbh no idea of build costs for Stadium, anyone?

Re: Power Court finances

Posted by Ampthill Mob <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/lutonoutlaws/info/user=Ampthill+Mob' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 3/10/2025, 17:57:24, in reply to "Power Court finances"

We were told before promotion that funding was in place for PC. Now it feels very much as if were short of funding. Yes costs may have risen, but has some investment also decided it doesn't fancy it?

Also, what would the situation be if we hadn't got promoted? As stated, we were told monies were in place before promotion, but since promotion we seem to be selling any players with a value, being told the money 'will all be reinvested', although there's been no clarification if tanks in the team or stadium. we most definitely have a transfer surplus this window.

So if promotion hadn't happened, where would the (promised) money for PC be coming from?

We plant more trees than you

Re: Power Court finances

Posted by HH <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/lutonoutlaws/info/user=HH' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 3/10/2025, 18:22:40, in reply to "Re: Power Court finances"

As ELH says below, it's a bit of misconception that the stadium was always fully funded.The original plan was of course for it to be that way, way back in 2016 where we would haved developed J10 to pay for the new ground. Then post COVID the financial costs and changes to retail changed that plan and the value of the J10 land.

I cant find any reference of the club saying the stadium was fully funded just before promotion to the PL. As I said below, even in 2021 Sweet was saying the sale of J10 would help secure funding, which doesn't suggest it was fully funded 4 years ago. (https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-59769263)

I imagine if we hadn't been promoted we would be proceeding with a very stripped back version with plans to expand in future.

Boardroom notes from Sweet last December suggested financing was still being sought "Our core focus is structuring the necessary cashflow funding to help pay for the construction of the stadium itself" (https://www.lutontown.co.uk/en/news/boardroom-notes-from-gary-sweet)

Re: Power Court finances

Posted by bbb <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/lutonoutlaws/info/user=bbb' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 3/10/2025, 22:30:33, in reply to "Re: Power Court finances"

Reasonable post.

I've no link to his words (and to be honest, I can't be arsed looking) but I'm certain there was an interview with Sweet that stated something like 'funds are in place to build PC regardless if promotion to the PL is secured' not long before the play off semi or final.

Either way, further down the line, he definitely stated only 30m of the PL money would be used for PC.

Now it's clear all the remaining money from the PL plus any profits from transfers are going towards the new ground.

Personally I have no problem with that, if its the case. But why the fuck can't he just come out and say it?. Then explain why we previously had the funds in place, now we rely on PL money?
And don't palm us off with materials being more expensive and all that bollocks. That was a given whilst PC was still a dream.

Most would respect them/Sweet more if he was just honest, like he seemingly used to be.
The silence is defening and only adds to negative speculation.

Re: Power Court finances

Posted by Doctor Ince <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/lutonoutlaws/info/user=Doctor+Ince' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 4/10/2025, 9:47:21, in reply to "Re: Power Court finances"

In his boardroom notes from the Millwall game in 22 GS discusses the various challenges around power court; rising costs, Ukraine war, covid, hs2 etc etc

He concludes
A single Promotion via the Play-offs to the Premier League will, of course, solve all those challenges in one fell swoop. There! I’ve said all those ‘P-words’!
https://www.lutontown.co.uk/en/news/gary-sweets-millwall-boardroom-notes

Re: Power Court finances

Posted by bbb <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/lutonoutlaws/info/user=bbb' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 4/10/2025, 11:28:49, in reply to "Re: Power Court finances"

He should be a politician, the amount of bollocks he spouts.

Re: Power Court finances

Posted by HH <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/lutonoutlaws/info/user=HH' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 4/10/2025, 9:57:32, in reply to "Re: Power Court finances"

Ah, fair enough, a good find!

Re: Power Court finances

Posted by Carp Fisher <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/lutonoutlaws/info/user=Carp+Fisher' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 4/10/2025, 8:20:15, in reply to "Re: Power Court finances"

Is it a coincidence that so much money is on the table and things seem to be changing around the club? I think we need to learn more about the relationships within the club—particularly with builders—and who stands to gain. Full disclosure shouldn't really be much of an issue, should it? After all, we all want the best for the club and to know where the money we've earned is going. For one thing, though, we've never wasted money like we have since receiving the Premier League windfall.

Re: Power Court finances

Posted by bbb <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/lutonoutlaws/info/user=bbb' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 4/10/2025, 8:50:13, in reply to "Re: Power Court finances"

Agreed. Money changes people. And from the outside looking in, it's made one person an arrogant, egotistical, coin eyed cunt with a shocking attitude of disregard to fellow supporters. In my opinion.

Re: Power Court finances

Posted by Music Critic <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/lutonoutlaws/info/user=Music+Critic' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 4/10/2025, 8:15:46, in reply to "Re: Power Court finances"

Now it's clear all the remaining money from the PL plus any profits from transfers are going towards the new ground.

Personally I have no problem with that, if its the case. But why the fuck can't he just come out and say it?

Precisely this. Not one person I know and have spoken to has a huge problem if all the cash is going to PC and we're bargain hunting on the football side

If that is the case, Bloomfield needs full time help on the recruitment and PC demands full time focus on getting built to somewhere near time, cost and quality targets

Project managing a piece of infrastructure like that is highly demanding in terms of time and focus

Re: Power Court finances

Posted by Q <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/lutonoutlaws/info/user=Q' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 3/10/2025, 23:02:17, in reply to "Re: Power Court finances"

'funds are in place to build PC regardless if promotion to the PL is secured'

I recall that too.

No stadium has ever been built on budget, so imo it's reasonable to assume that there are more £££ increases before PC is finished, let alone the rest of the development (which presumably is further down the line and not yet costed to the detail PC has been). And that's without builders or suppliers playing games later.

Plus I assume we are talking a number of years before the monies come in from the rest of the development, and during that time there will be a lot of debt by the sounds of it, so let's hope there is no housing crash, or that one or other colours of government don't tax/trash things before then, or interest rates don't go haywire a la Truss even for a short period.

So it all feels like larger risks are being taken with bigger sums of money, and it's already biting - no affordable housing, seemingly using more than £30m from PL money, using transfer profits, no ground protections. Bearing in mind no one at 2020 has built anything of this size before, or even close to it, then getting it right first time and on budget will be quite a feat, especially when it's all controlled by a part time CEO.

There's nothing wrong with all the above, but talk of some sort of ground protection seems to have been dropped, and the Trust interview with Mike Moran didn't even address budgets or protections, or give some comfort that contingencies for mad politicians are in place.

As you say, it's all about honesty and that can be done without giving away details they don't want to, surely? That would stamp on any PC speculation so all us (me) numbskulls can concentrate on being crap amateur football experts.

Re: Power Court finances

Posted by HH <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/lutonoutlaws/info/user=HH' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 4/10/2025, 6:11:03, in reply to "Re: Power Court finances"

Yep.

Completely agree with you and bbb's post above.

It's been said plenty of times, but if Sweet is as involved as he says he is on the stadium front, and the colossal project that it is, it’s fucking mad that he's doing it on a job share basis with his role in the recruitment / playing side, which also realistically needs 100% full time focus. That needs to change and someone at the club needs to tell him so.

Anyway, Chavs 1 - 3 Luton. (Nordas, Morris, Clark)

Re: Power Court finances

Posted by MG <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/lutonoutlaws/info/user=MG' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 4/10/2025, 8:28:28, in reply to "Re: Power Court finances"

He has a full time project manager on it at least . . .

This is not just being done by Sweet and the club have said that enough times now.

Re: Power Court finances

Posted by Q <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/lutonoutlaws/info/user=Q' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 4/10/2025, 9:28:56, in reply to "Re: Power Court finances"

And Sweet in the 3CR interview said how much time he spends on PC.
Why are we the only club in the EFL to have a part time CEO? Either he's a superhero, or it's asking for trouble.
And, why don't the rest of the 2020 board see that, or at least explain why they are happy with that situation?

Re: Power Court finances

Posted by J in C <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/lutonoutlaws/info/user=J+in+C' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 4/10/2025, 10:43:05, in reply to "Re: Power Court finances"
WUM

Maybe you could help out Mr expert

Into the valley of death rode J in C

Re: Power Court finances

Posted by Q <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/lutonoutlaws/info/user=Q' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 4/10/2025, 14:05:58, in reply to "Re: Power Court finances"

Ah, name calling and belittling. Are you doing holiday cover for others who ‘are taking a break’ and are the usual ones to shout people down?

Shame you have no answers to anything - your mates and chums not keeping you in the loop? You don’t seem that clued up on how good businesses run and develop and stay fresh.

Tbh, you’re probably causing a more negative vibe by your act and I’m not sure that’s what your mates want.

But please, carry on. It’s funny and stoking the negativity

Re: Power Court finances

His offer of help would probably be refused

Re: Power Court finances

Posted by HH <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/lutonoutlaws/info/user=HH' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 4/10/2025, 10:58:45, in reply to "Re: Power Court finances"

What's the worst that could happen, two relegations on the spin?

Re: Power Court finances

Posted by jimmyp <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/lutonoutlaws/info/user=jimmyp' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 4/10/2025, 11:43:58, in reply to "Re: Power Court finances"

Just to be clear, two more?

That might be a 'no thanks'.

COYH, Jim

Re: Power Court finances

Posted by HH <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/lutonoutlaws/info/user=HH' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 4/10/2025, 8:33:38, in reply to "Re: Power Court finances"

On a development of that scale I would hope there is at least one full time PM!

Re: Power Court finances

That needs to change and someone at the club needs to tell him so.

I'm not entirely sure what the board do on a daily basis beyond saying 'yes' to everything GS says and wants (at least that's how it looks from the outside) and giving approval for a playing and PC budget. And that we're not breaking any laws

Re: Power Court finances

That's not to say their initial risk - in investing in what was a basket case - wasn't brilliant and likely saved us from the AFC Luton scenario but I don't know what they do from day to day and how their expertise is put to proper use. If it even is

Re: Power Court finances

Posted by HH <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/lutonoutlaws/info/user=HH' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 4/10/2025, 8:23:05, in reply to "Re: Power Court finances"

I'm not entirely sure what the board do on a daily basis

Ogling over Katie Hopkin's tits?

Re: Power Court finances

~shudders~

Re: Power Court finances

Posted by HH <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/lutonoutlaws/info/user=HH' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 3/10/2025, 13:44:57, in reply to "Power Court finances"

I've no idea as to how much debt the club will have, whether it will be the club itself legally or the associated development companies carrying that debt, but I'm sure someone on here said the overall project (residential etc on top) would be well in excess of £500m, probably between £750m - £1 billion.

But, as far as I'm aware, we're not going to be debt free once it has been finished.

Quote from the Trust back in the summer.

“Given the huge increase in revenue Power Court will generate, even after debt repayments the club’s financial position will be significantly improved, not least because it will have a stadium asset on its balance sheet. The strategy and intention remains to pay down the debt as quickly as possible using development profits from the wider Power Court scheme."

https://www.lutontoday.co.uk/sport/football/luton-town/premier-league-stint-means-luton-only-need-to-borrow-half-the-amount-to-fund-power-court-build-5183095

Re: Power Court finances

Posted by Andy Cappuccino <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/lutonoutlaws/info/user=Andy+Cappuccino' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 3/10/2025, 14:31:18, in reply to "Re: Power Court finances"

But the wider development profits will be used to to repay debt, so the club will eventually be debt free? That is my understanding from the statement in the summer that you quote. That said there is always the risk that these profits, for whatever reason, are insufficient to repay all of the debt but on current forecasts the club will eventually be debt free.

65% for Nige

Re: Power Court finances

Posted by Toddingtonsteve <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/lutonoutlaws/info/user=Toddingtonsteve' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 3/10/2025, 15:14:13, in reply to "Re: Power Court finances"

The wider development will not go ahead unless money is forthcoming from homes England, the affordable housing element has already been removed because it’s uncommercial. So there is no way, in my view, that the wider development will pay off any loans

Re: Power Court finances

In that case surely the whole project is unworkable, the debt would sink the club.

65% for Nige

Re: Power Court finances

Posted by HH <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/lutonoutlaws/info/user=HH' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 3/10/2025, 14:45:18, in reply to "Re: Power Court finances"

Yeah, I'm not sure how that works and whether it would cover the costs entirely or even if the club will develop them themselves or sell on to someone else.

1200 flats, with new 2 bed flats in Luton Town centre currently going at £449k - you would have thought there is a lot of money to be made there.

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/167062547#/?channel=RES_NEW

Re: Power Court finances

Posted by Q <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/lutonoutlaws/info/user=Q' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 3/10/2025, 23:10:28, in reply to "Re: Power Court finances"

But if the Club develop them themselves, we really do become a development company rather than a football club because surely that will take a number of years. My understanding was the rest of PC would be sold on for others to develop, which also limits the risks and timescales I'd have thought. But maybe that doesn't give the money that's now needed and 2020 have to be involved in the rest of the development to make the numbers stack up.
Let's be honest, we're all guessing and probably completely wrong.

Re: Power Court finances

Posted by Poster from the past <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/lutonoutlaws/info/user=Poster+from+the+past' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 3/10/2025, 15:49:58, in reply to "Re: Power Court finances"

£449k for a tiny 2 bed flat there? Who on earth is going to pay that?!

outlaws is not the barometer of sanity.

Re: Power Court finances

Posted by Ronnies Finger <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/lutonoutlaws/info/user=Ronnies+Finger' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 3/10/2025, 16:30:52, in reply to "Re: Power Court finances"

Admit £ 449.000, sounds a bit steep( assuming 2 beds?)

But aimed at Londoners? And 40 mins to central London…

Re: Power Court finances

Zone 2 or Luton Town centre for the same price? It's a tough decision.

outlaws is not the barometer of sanity.

Re: Power Court finances

Is it 1200?

Re: Power Court finances

Posted by HH <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/lutonoutlaws/info/user=HH' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 3/10/2025, 15:10:02, in reply to "Re: Power Court finances"

Not 100% sure.

This website references 1200 homes - https://www.lesliejones.co.uk/projects/power-court-luton/

but the recent planning application says 550?

Re: Power Court finances

Posted by Ampthill Fan <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/lutonoutlaws/info/user=Ampthill+Fan' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 3/10/2025, 13:41:56, in reply to "Power Court finances"

Why the need for a bridging loan?...earlier pre prem chat was stadium fully costed..funds in place..

Re: Power Court finances

Posted by Garstang Hatter <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/lutonoutlaws/info/user=Garstang+Hatter' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 3/10/2025, 14:46:24, in reply to "Re: Power Court finances"

The bridging loan is for cash flow though, isn't it - that's different from funding. The residential development is part of the funding, but won't be realised until after the stadium build so we have the bridging loan to cover the cash flow gap. I'm not really sure what the issue is, that seems fairly logical to me.

"Never too high, never too low"

Re: Power Court finances

Posted by ELH <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/lutonoutlaws/info/user=ELH' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 3/10/2025, 14:26:05, in reply to "Re: Power Court finances"

This is a common misconception, but there was always going to be further funding required.

GS has said so before promotion (I think he was asked in an interview before the play off final). It also just makes sense - the plan has always been that the stadium would be primarily funded by a) Newlands Park and b) residential development at Power Court. Newlands Park has been sold but was no where near enough to fully fund even a smaller stadium. The residential development can't be completed until after the stadium, so there will need to be some other funding in the build phase.

In theory the sale of the residential developments pays off any debt (at least that is what has been communicated).

Re: Power Court finances

Posted by J in C <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/lutonoutlaws/info/user=J+in+C' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 3/10/2025, 13:44:53, in reply to "Re: Power Court finances"
WUM

Materials cost rose and other peripheral costs post covid

Into the valley of death rode J in C

Re: Power Court finances

Posted by Madpig <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/lutonoutlaws/info/user=Madpig' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 3/10/2025, 13:56:44, in reply to "Re: Power Court finances"

By £80m I here. Expensive fucking COVID, especially as the Prem came way after that, and Sweet was boasting the Prem had paid for it.
Has the Pleasure Dome at Xanadou broke the bank?

Re: Power Court finances

Posted by HH <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/lutonoutlaws/info/user=HH' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 3/10/2025, 14:04:46, in reply to "Re: Power Court finances"

Has Sweet ever said the Premier League would pay for it outright?

Even as far back as 2021, when the land at J10 was sold, he was saying the sale would help 'secure funding.'

Re: Power Court finances

Posted by bbb <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/lutonoutlaws/info/user=bbb' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 3/10/2025, 13:47:05, in reply to "Re: Power Court finances"

Those costs were rising steeply well before covid so that should have been factored in to the original pricing, to a certain extent anyway.

Re: Power Court finances

We're three or four years past COVID. That's a get out of jail free card that's already been used.

Re: Power Court finances

Two things..why board short of dosh for the build.?...once moved in..where the funding to survive coming from?

Re: Power Court finances

Posted by HH <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/lutonoutlaws/info/user=HH' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 3/10/2025, 14:14:35, in reply to "Re: Power Court finances"

You seem surprised the club don't have £500m+ lying around in the bank?

And surely the funding to survive an day for the borrowing will come from the increased funding generated by the stadium?

Re: Power Court finances

Posted by J in C <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/lutonoutlaws/info/user=J+in+C' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 3/10/2025, 14:28:37, in reply to "Re: Power Court finances"
WUM

A lot of delusion in this thread

2020 have it covered

Into the valley of death rode J in C

Re: Power Court finances

Posted by Q <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/lutonoutlaws/info/user=Q' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 3/10/2025, 23:16:13, in reply to "Re: Power Court finances"

Do enlighten us then, and help to stop the 'delusion'. Or are you just guessing too?

Failing that, what's for dinner?

Re: Power Court finances

So how does a stadium generate that income?..

Re: Power Court finances

Posted by HH <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/lutonoutlaws/info/user=HH' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 3/10/2025, 14:46:44, in reply to "Re: Power Court finances"

Sorry, not entirely sure what you're asking?

Are you asking how a new stadium increases income?

Re: Power Court finances

Flats offices events etc etc

Into the valley of death rode J in C

Re: Power Court finances

Your going to need rent from a lot of flats or offices to generate the income to fund a decent level football club...As for events..even the franchised place up the road struggles with events..

Re: Power Court finances

Posted by HH <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/lutonoutlaws/info/user=HH' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 3/10/2025, 14:52:08, in reply to "Re: Power Court finances"

I'm not sure they do.

Their turnover for their MK Stadium Ltd company, which covers MK Dons, the hotel, the events etc, property development etc was £24m.

They make a lot of money from the events and catering side of things!

Re: Power Court finances

Posted by m <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/lutonoutlaws/info/user=m' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 3/10/2025, 15:32:44, in reply to "Re: Power Court finances"

The Arena at Mk is booked solid between now and Xmas, min at £10k a day to rent it

Re: Power Court finances

Ok don't build it the

Do you not think it's been costed by experts rather than an anon poster on Outlaws

Into the valley of death rode J in C

Re: Power Court finances

All above replies fill in the gaps, cheers.
J in C sums it up, experts in their field have costed all this , and with likes of Mike Moran overseeing, all should be well.

Sorry to sound positive amongst all the doom and gloom on the pitch, but some on here really do need to take a step back and look at the long term bigger picture( me included occasionally).

The stadium is the biggest and most important thing for LTFC.

Cue abuse and predicted replies..,

Re: Power Court finances

Posted by Zobra The Greek <iframe src='https://members.boardhost.com/lutonoutlaws/info/user=Zobra+The+Greek' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 3/10/2025, 15:18:14, in reply to "Re: Power Court finances"

As MC mentioned earlier, it's funny how the narrative is now creeping from '2020 will never build the stadium' to 'we don't need a stadium/it's costing too much/GS lied to us about how much it would cost/I don't trust them to run the club when it's built'

We had an incredible 9 year run of success under 2020. And after our first challenging period under them since then, some people are complaining more about them now than they were about Jayten.

Re: Power Court finances

Don't think I have seen anyone say stadium not needed..Most I know are impressed it happening..however questions do get raised..so answers to them encourage folk to get on board..asking is not being negative

Re: Power Court finances

Don't get tetchy now..just asking..Obviously you don't know the answer re continued funding..If it all goes tits up..not my dosh..if team cannot be funded board will sell up..either way it matters not to me..but like many..I am interested

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