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Posted by Nick NBH on 13/5/2025, 22:12:54, in reply to "Who?"
""The club achieved great success when making similar appointments in Slavisa Jokanovic, Javi Gracia and Xisco Munoz, and we hope our fans welcome Paulo and wish him every success as we try to achieve the owner's clear aim of challenging for a return to the Premier League."
Didnt they sack all of them (havent checked..just playig the odds!)
Re: Who?
Posted by Nearly a Genius on 13/5/2025, 21:19:48, in reply to "Who?" Legend of Outlaws
The Doctor? Maybe we should recruit him, and all he'd need to do is wave his sonic screwdriver, and we'd piss the league.
Re: Who?
Posted by HH on 13/5/2025, 21:12:43, in reply to "Who?"
I despiss those cunts but can we really still sneer at them for changing managers?
I'd rather we sacked our manager more often and didn't get relegated.
Another one some sneered at is also taking his team almighty close to the playoff final tonight. They were beneath us when they appointed him.
Re: Who?
Posted by Music Critic on 13/5/2025, 21:15:50, in reply to "Re: Who?"
Yep. This latest stooge will probably do enough to keep them comfortable again
We stuck with a busted flush for 2 months too long and look where we are
Re: Who?
Posted by HH on 13/5/2025, 21:13:24, in reply to "Re: Who?"
I also despise them as well as despissing them
Re: Who?
Posted by Nearly a Genius on 13/5/2025, 20:25:17, in reply to "Who?" Legend of Outlaws
What are the odds on him lasting until September?
Re: Who?
Posted by Ramridge Raider on 13/5/2025, 20:20:29, in reply to "Who?"
A cheap foreign coach, desperate for a job who will do whatever the Board and DoF tell him to do.
Re: Who?
Posted by bbb on 13/5/2025, 20:37:59, in reply to "Re: Who?"
And yet they'll still be in a higher division than us.
Re: Who?
Posted by SAHB on 13/5/2025, 21:50:48, in reply to "Re: Who?"
I would rather be non league again than be like those cunts.
It is a club with no soul or identity. Success in life should not be measured by who is ahead or behind, it should be measured on dignity, respect, and honour.
They have none of the above. What kind of fool would follow signs that were never there.
Re: Who?
Posted by bbb on 14/5/2025, 5:08:50, in reply to "Re: Who?"
No soul or identity. Yeah, we're going that way.
Dignity, respect and honour. I saw fuck all of that on the pitch and not alot off it the last 12 months.
Re: Who?
Posted by HH on 13/5/2025, 22:17:28, in reply to "Re: Who?"
No doubt some will give you a +1 on that, but I think it's meaningless tosh.
We've sacked plenty of managers under 2020. Are we slightly more dignified because we do it less?
Here's a counter proposition: If we don't bounce back in 12 months, relegation will have a profund financial impact on the club. No doubt, people will lose their jobs as we cut our cloth accordingly. Is it more honourable for that to happen as opposed to dismissing very well paid managers more frequently?
Re: Who?
Posted by SAHB on 13/5/2025, 22:46:21, in reply to "Re: Who?"
It is not about what we have to do. It is about what we choose to do.
Sacking JS was probably the hardest thing the board has had to do, but they did it because they had to, and it was done in a respectful way.
RE was given too long, which was a mistake but I have respect for the board for doing what they thought was honourable, sticking with the man who took us up and only sacking him as a last resort the same as JS.
The down the road they don't sack managers because they have to, they have delusions of grandeur, they couldn't care less as long as they have what they think is success.
Success in life for me is trying to do the right thing, some try and get it right and some get it terribly wrong but the intent to do the right thing is very important to me.
What kind of fool would follow signs that were never there.
Re: Who?
Posted by HH on 13/5/2025, 22:58:55, in reply to "Re: Who?"
I think there is a very fine line between dressing up indecision and poor judgment as "doing the right thing', as if sticking with a failing manager like Edwards for too long is somehow honourable because the intent was good. That’s not honour, that’s just a bad call in my opinion. Much more honourable to have called it quits post Boro.
I just don't see much consolation about being virtuous whilst the results fall off a cliff. The reality is we gave Edwards too long, paid the price, and now we’re clinging to moral high ground while clubs like Watford, who we mock for being poorly run, have largely been more competitve than us for the best part of 25 years.
Re: Who?
Posted by SAHB on 13/5/2025, 23:16:16, in reply to "Re: Who?"
I couldn't care less, if they are higher than us one day Pozzos will clear off then what will they have. There is far more to life than being a rung higher on a ladder especially if it's after you have kicked the other people trying to use it down to the ground. What kind of fool would follow signs that were never there.
Re: Who?
Posted by HH on 13/5/2025, 23:36:40, in reply to "Re: Who?"
Seriously? It doesn’t bother you that Watford are ahead of us? It drives me mad. That’s what football’s about. Winning, being competitive, and beating rivals. I don’t care about dressing up virtue as a victory.
I take little consolation from the 'we’ve crashed the car, sure, but we meant to drive it well'philosphy. Means fuck all when those cunts are a league above us. Again.
Re: Who?
Posted by SAHB on 13/5/2025, 23:53:39, in reply to "Re: Who?"
Sometimes you have to take a step back and ask what is really important. I am currently in Cuba the power is off again the people here have to struggle everyday, food is short, the country is close to collapse.
But the thing that brought me here are the people they have spirit, they are honourable and proud they pull together and behave as one family that's what I want for me and my family.
since 2020 artived that is what this club has done it has brought us together as a community and a family, the people at the top have tried not always successfully to do it in a way that the family can be proud of. What kind of fool would follow signs that were never there.
Re: Who?
Posted by HH on 14/5/2025, 6:51:12, in reply to "Re: Who?"
That comparison is so flawed.
If anything, using that analogy makes it sound like you think our club is so poorly run we need to rally around it like it’s a broken state.
Re: Who?
Posted by bbb on 14/5/2025, 6:39:44, in reply to "Re: Who?"
I think you should go a bit deeper to try and prove your point mate.
Re: Who?
Posted by Music Critic on 14/5/2025, 6:28:41, in reply to "Re: Who?"
Nobody is arguing that all this football nonsense is more important than real life and certainly not more important than the struggles you describe
But I don't know why people reach for the nuclear option of perspective and real life and doing that false equivalence thing when debating a point about football. Most normal people can be heavily invested in a football club and still understand that, well, it is ONLY football
And this is a football message board and not a message board dedicated to the current economic and social issues of Cuba
HH is correct in saying that it is shit that we find ourselves a level below them again. We should have been set after the prem promotion, reversing 25 years of them having the upper hand. After everything we achieved to see us back in L1 is fucking annoying to say the least and it's a huge failure from all involved
Re: Who?
Posted by Notorious D on 14/5/2025, 9:33:51, in reply to "Re: Who?"
Bang fucking on!
Re: Who?
Posted by MG on 14/5/2025, 6:46:28, in reply to "Re: Who?"
HH is correct and in sang that it's shit being below them again, it's shit having been relegated. I'm pretty sure that no-one disagrees with that.
But SAHB is also making a good point though. I know some people seem to have come to the quite remarkable conclusion that we are somehow not that much different, we really are.
Acid test, given their respective records, would you swap 2020 for the "more successful" Pozzos? Of course you wouldn't. Because the Pozzos aren't actually more successful than 2020 have been and we are still doing a hell of a lot right, and in a better way. And that really is important.
Re: Who?
Posted by HH on 14/5/2025, 6:56:01, in reply to "Re: Who?"
I wouldn't swap our journey over the last 10 years for Watford's 6 out of the last 10 seasons and FA in the top flight and FA Cup final.
However, if we find ourselves languishing in League One, or even League Two, in the next 5 years or so, and they stay in the Championship or even go back up to the top flight, that perspective will change for me.
Re: Who?
Posted by MG on 14/5/2025, 7:13:37, in reply to "Re: Who?"
So let's say that happens?
You *would* take that swap????
Re: Who?
Posted by HH on 14/5/2025, 7:18:14, in reply to "Re: Who?"
Yes. I want to support a successful football team.
If that means sacking a few more managers to achieve it and avoid League Two football, then so fucking be it.
This club can be a family and a community while still being ambitious, ruthless when needed and hungry for success.
We can be proud of our values. But let's not use them to explain away what would be a complete and utter humiliating failure.
Re: Who?
Posted by Hatters88 on 14/5/2025, 8:57:45, in reply to "Re: Who?"
"We can be proud of our values. But let's not use them to explain away what would be a complete and utter humiliating failure."
100% agree with this.
Re: Who?
Posted by MG on 14/5/2025, 7:34:51, in reply to "Re: Who?"
Proud of them. But they are not really *that* important? Personally I think things like paying staff the living wage and all those things like looking after Tom Lockyer even after his contract ends are fundamental, nothing is "success" without doing things like that. As a part of that I suspect that Edwards got far more support than he would have had at the likes of Watford - and it's obvious he needed it. Don't get me wrong, I totally agree we held on to him in position for too long and it was a bad judgement call. I'd just rather make those kind of bad judgement calls than the callous opposite.
And I'm not doing what you are suggesting, just for clarity, that was SAHB. I'm more interested in how important our values should be to us.
Re: Who?
Posted by HH on 14/5/2025, 7:40:05, in reply to "Re: Who?"
See I think that's a fair perspective and I absolutely agree that values like paying staff properly and standing by players like Lockyer matter hugely. That stuff should be non-negotiable and is something we should be proud of.
But I also think some of the club's original values like transparency have been harder to see in recent times. There's been growing frustration from parts of the fanbase and it's not hard to understand why. Communication has felt more guarded and that creates disconnect.
For me it's not about throwing everything out. It's more about resetting a few key things. Not a revolution just some honest tweaks to get us back on course both on and off the pitch.
Re: Who?
Posted by MG on 14/5/2025, 7:53:20, in reply to "Re: Who?"
Okay, so what does happen next?
I mean, on Outlaws, when you find yourselves in agreement? Do we still get to call each other cunts etc? It feels like a missed opportunity somehow.
And I do completely agree, including the point about communication.
Re: Who?
Posted by HH on 14/5/2025, 9:30:03, in reply to "Re: Who?"
Well, then we hug it out brother then crawl back to our respective trenches muttering insults under our breath, ready for the next skirmish.
Re: Who?
Posted by MG on 14/5/2025, 10:02:37, in reply to "Re: Who?"
Perfect .
Consider me muttering in my trench!
Re: Who?
Posted by Music Critic on 14/5/2025, 6:54:28, in reply to "Re: Who?"
I don't think anyone is suggesting that we want the Pozzo's instead of 2020. I'm not even sure people are saying we are like them. In fact, in a strange way, having solid ownership compared to them makes it an even bigger failure that we are, once again, below them in the pyramid
SAHB also makes a good point when he says about them sacking managers not because they have to but because of delusions of grandeur. He is spot on there
But I suppose my main point really was people using real life/problems/comparisons when trying to win a football argument. Of course most sane people have perspective on football's true importance. Shouldn't mean we can't be frustrated, gutted, disappointed when your football club fails. That emotion and emotional investment drives the game
Re: Who?
Posted by MG on 14/5/2025, 7:15:21, in reply to "Re: Who?"
That's why I said "of course you wouldn't" though HH has put that assertion in a little doubt now . . .
I agree, we are all frustrated, but when you are angry and frustrated with failure is a dangerous time to make value judgements. Some people are verging on throwing the baby out with the bathwater at the moment.
Re: Who?
Posted by HH on 14/5/2025, 7:28:30, in reply to "Re: Who?"
No. I'm not saying I want the Pozzos over 2020.
I just disagree with statements when people say they would rather watch us in non league etc. And if we do find ourselves languishing in League Two, that's throwing out all criticism for the sake of a virtuous moral high ground.
Obviously there is nuance and a middle ground. It's not a binary choice between soulless success and virtuous glorious failure.
Re: Who?
Posted by Music Critic on 14/5/2025, 9:35:26, in reply to "Re: Who?"
Obviously there is nuance and a middle ground. It's not a binary choice between soulless success and virtuous glorious failure.
Absolutely. Or, like this season, inglorious failure
Re: Who?
Posted by MG on 14/5/2025, 10:09:38, in reply to "Re: Who?"
Virtuous inglorious failure .
Re: Who?
Posted by MG on 14/5/2025, 6:47:26, in reply to "Re: Who?"
"HH is correct in saying" . . .
Re: Who?
Posted by The Outsider on 13/5/2025, 23:58:10, in reply to "Re: Who?" VIP
I am currently in Cuba
Maybe you could have worded that differently on here
Re: Who?
Posted by MG on 14/5/2025, 6:41:01, in reply to "Re: Who?"
Re: Who?
Posted by SAHB on 14/5/2025, 0:15:49, in reply to "Re: Who?"
What kind of fool would follow signs that were never there.
Re: Who?
Posted by MG on 13/5/2025, 22:56:24, in reply to "Re: Who?"
+100
Re: Who?
Posted by RADSB on 13/5/2025, 20:58:03, in reply to "Re: Who?"
Their spine has always been good to average. Ours less so recently. Mr J.C. Lomax having been called upon to give his opinion upon the proposed formation of a Town Club, said he was most emphatically in favour of a proposed Luton Town Football Club - 11th April 1885
Re: Who?
Posted by Alien Nate on 13/5/2025, 20:43:15, in reply to "Re: Who?"
The fact they are a division above is quite amazing. Because the Pozzo style is like a self destruction plan. No explanation.Everything we think we are Is everything we ain't
Re: Who?
Posted by Music Critic on 13/5/2025, 21:07:59, in reply to "Re: Who?"
Not really amazing. The standard in the C'ship is no great shakes. You don't even have to be that good to stay in it
I'm watching the Sunderland v Cov game tonight and while it's been tense and entertaining in a way, neither of these are good sides and I'm left shaking my head wondering how the fuckity fuck we managed to get relegated out of this league
Utterly baffling
Re: Who?
Posted by bbb on 13/5/2025, 20:58:42, in reply to "Re: Who?"
And going from the PL to the 3rd division isn't?
Re: Who?
Posted by Alien Nate on 13/5/2025, 20:32:56, in reply to "Re: Who?"
And still be sacked before first international break.Everything we think we are Is everything we ain't
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