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Hillsborough
Posted by lutonsteve2 on 15/4/2025, 10:40:14
36 years ago today.
And not an ounce of justice ever served.
RIP
Re: Hillsborough
Posted by Robin on 15/4/2025, 13:56:32, in reply to "Hillsborough"
strangeley enough, I was actually in Liverpool that day with my parents, staying with some friends off theirs that had moved up there.
I remember hearing it unfold on the radio coming back from Southport beach and then seeing it on the news.
We went out for a meal that evening in Liverpool city centre and I just remember us being the only one's in the restaurant that was supposed to be fully booked.
Was a shocking day, but for some reason I was always more upset about the Bradford fire disaster, I think because it was shown live as it unfolded and you just knew straight way what was going wrong.
Re: Hillsborough
Posted by J in C on 15/4/2025, 11:58:29, in reply to "Hillsborough" Sarah
Pretty sure a top old bill was punished
Re: Hillsborough
Posted by EastEnder on 15/4/2025, 13:52:46, in reply to "Re: Hillsborough"
This one?
Hillsborough match commander David Duckenfield has been found not guilty of the gross negligence manslaughter of 95 Liverpool fans in the 1989 disaster.
The former South Yorkshire Police chief superintendent, 75, was in charge of the FA Cup semi-final in which 96 fans were fatally injured.
Men, women and children were crushed on the Leppings Lane terrace.
Mr Duckenfield, of Ferndown, Dorset, was cleared after a seven-week retrial at Preston Crown Court.
Due to the law at the time, there can be no prosecution over the death of the 96th victim, Tony Bland.
Re: Hillsborough
Posted by bbb on 15/4/2025, 11:46:07, in reply to "Hillsborough"
Problem is, there were lots of factors that led to it happening. If you're going to serve justice it has to be across the board. From old bill, safety officers, the FA, supporters without tickets. They're all partly to blame.
Either way it was a horrible, tragic day that should never have happened.
Re: Hillsborough
Posted by PaddyHatter on 15/4/2025, 15:09:46, in reply to "Re: Hillsborough"
That's exactly it isn't it? Even when you look at society back then it was the norm to regard football fans that had to be 'penned in'. Police in this country operate by consent but there was an accepted 'adversarial' culture where police were aggressive towards the public. I remember games in the early 80s they were awful. Hillsborough was the perfect / horrific storm. Hard to pin on individuals. Massive failures in the Home Office to get a grip of policing large crowds along with the football authorities.
Re: Hillsborough
Posted by Andy Cappuccino on 15/4/2025, 12:53:13, in reply to "Re: Hillsborough"
Spot on
Re: Hillsborough
Posted by EastEnder on 15/4/2025, 12:15:59, in reply to "Re: Hillsborough"
The Leppings Lane end was under capacity when everyone died.
Even if some fans did not have tickets there was room for them.
The problem was everyone went in the central pens as there was no proper stewarding or policing.
About 2.50 you can clearly see there's so much space in the side pens that some people are even sitting on the terrace reading their programme.
Re: Hillsborough
Posted by bbb on 15/4/2025, 12:43:39, in reply to "Re: Hillsborough"
Yep. A couple of lads I know managed somehow climb over to the side. They didn't have tickets.
Re: Hillsborough
Posted by Godders on 15/4/2025, 14:51:24, in reply to "Re: Hillsborough"
The report specifically mentions that there were either no fans without tickets or if there were then the numbers were insignificant. So, not saying the lads you know are lying, but I am saying that they weren't typical and certainly not the cause of the tragedy.Live justly, love mercy, perpetuate generosity, walk humbly.
Re: Hillsborough
Posted by bbb on 15/4/2025, 15:20:43, in reply to "Re: Hillsborough"
Sorry Godders, there were loads without tickets. As there were at all big Liverpool games then. Do you really think the report was going to make a big thing of it?!
Re: Hillsborough
Posted by Godders on 15/4/2025, 15:45:56, in reply to "Re: Hillsborough"
Well that's completely contrary to what the report says. And the whole point of the independent report was to recount the facts, and not further gloss over inconvenient truths. I guess it depends on how many you mean by "loads"?
But either way, they were not responsible, for the deaths.Live justly, love mercy, perpetuate generosity, walk humbly.
Re: Hillsborough
Posted by bbb on 15/4/2025, 16:01:34, in reply to "Re: Hillsborough"
'They were not solely responsible for the deaths'
I fixed it for you mate.
No need to thank me.
Re: Hillsborough
Posted by EastEnder on 15/4/2025, 16:26:24, in reply to "Re: Hillsborough"
Most people were dead or close to death around 3.05.
There clearly would have been stragglers who didn't make into the ground or left when they saw the overcrowding and danger.
So anyone who wasn't supposed to be there did not necessarily make the no's dangerous.
If people went in 89 without tickets they would have done same in 88, when NOBODY DIED.
Re: Hillsborough
Posted by bbb on 15/4/2025, 16:30:09, in reply to "Re: Hillsborough"
I just think it's marvellous that non of those loveable rogues from Merseyside jumped the turnstiles and invaded the pitch a few weeks later at Wembley.
Re: Hillsborough
Posted by EastEnder on 15/4/2025, 16:49:13, in reply to "Re: Hillsborough"
All fans invaded the pitch after a win in a big game without fences back then.
Better than being crushed to death against a fence like the fans in the semi.
Re: Hillsborough
Posted by bbb on 15/4/2025, 17:02:55, in reply to "Re: Hillsborough"
Did they? I don't recall us being on the pitch after beating Arsenal. It was long time ago so maybe my memory is sketchy?
Re: Hillsborough
Posted by EastEnder on 15/4/2025, 17:09:33, in reply to "Re: Hillsborough"
That's because fans were caged by huge fences all around the ground.
They were taken down after Hillsborough.
Re: Hillsborough
Posted by Godders on 15/4/2025, 17:17:16, in reply to "Re: Hillsborough"
Took a while after Hillsborough, but things like emergency gates were left open . For example at Derby on May 1990 for our famous sin the fences were still up but gates at the front were left open - or might have been removed altogether by then (can't remember now) Live justly, love mercy, perpetuate generosity, walk humbly.
Re: Hillsborough
Posted by bbb on 15/4/2025, 17:17:13, in reply to "Re: Hillsborough"
Oh.
Great to see all those joyous Man Utd fans on the pitch after they beat Palace the following season. Marvellous stuff.
Re: Hillsborough
Posted by EastEnder on 15/4/2025, 14:54:16, in reply to "Re: Hillsborough"
You'd have to have thousands of people without tickets to actually result in people dying.
There were fewer people in the end as a whole than the capacity at the time.
Re: Hillsborough
Posted by Godders on 15/4/2025, 15:03:42, in reply to "Re: Hillsborough"
Yes, I remember reading that too. As noted, the problem was that fans headed towards the already full pens rather than being directed around the sides to the underfilled pens. I think I also read that on the morning of the game there were still a few terrace tickets left unsold.Live justly, love mercy, perpetuate generosity, walk humbly.
Re: Hillsborough
Posted by Dave Hedgehog on 15/4/2025, 15:15:07, in reply to "Re: Hillsborough"
You're right. Pictures at the time show the central pens crammed full of people whilst those to the sides are half full.
But the thing is, after the event nobody would admit to being at the game without a ticket for fairly obvious reasons. I'm sure some were there but the number will never be known.
But they aren't the reason these people died and that their families never received justice. That was the contempt of thatcher's government, police and media towards working class people and football fans in particular.
That so many in the police, government and media who were responsible for this and the consequent cover up were able to go on to have long careers and happy retirements is disgusting. That twat Mackenzie being a case in point.
Re: Hillsborough
Posted by EastEnder on 15/4/2025, 15:11:53, in reply to "Re: Hillsborough"
Motson in his commentary pre-match commented on the huge gaps in the side pens on Leppings Lane and commented that Liverpool can't have sold their allocation.
Re: Hillsborough
Posted by Godders on 15/4/2025, 15:52:49, in reply to "Re: Hillsborough"
I don't recall that at all. Not saying it didn't happen but I was away on a c scout camp that weekend and was listening to the radio with my Liverpool supporting mate. Can't remember the commentator but he did say that some of the Liverpool fans seem to be trying to ruin it and are coming on to the pitch. Obviously this was way before he knew what was really going on.Live justly, love mercy, perpetuate generosity, walk humbly.
Re: Hillsborough
Posted by EastEnder on 15/4/2025, 16:17:47, in reply to "Re: Hillsborough"
That was because it wasn't live on BBC Godders.
It was recorded for MotD but the game wasn't broadcast that night for obvious reasons.
It's been aired since though.
Re: Hillsborough
Posted by Farhat on 15/4/2025, 11:59:48, in reply to "Re: Hillsborough"
I went to the 1986 FA Cup Final, in the Liverpool end. Their supporters charged the turnstiles to get in, I was lifted off my feet in the crush and ended up about 10 yards inside the ground. After I'd composed myself I showed my ticket to the steward asking where I should go. He was visibly shaking at what he'd just witnessed, and said it doesn't really matter now. I'm still not comfortable in big crowds, and getting out of Hillsborough a few years back after our cup game was horrible.
Re: Hillsborough
Posted by Godders on 15/4/2025, 14:54:56, in reply to "Re: Hillsborough"
I know someone who was a steward at the 88 cup final. He said that during the second half many Liverpool fans were so pissed and pissed off and violent that the head steward at his end (where the majority of Liverpool fans were) kept him and fellow stewards locked away for their own safety as Liverpool fans rampaged.Live justly, love mercy, perpetuate generosity, walk humbly.
Re: Hillsborough
Posted by bbb on 15/4/2025, 12:15:08, in reply to "Re: Hillsborough"
I can well imagine. Similar happened, although it doesn't sound as severe as your experience, at the charity shield(1990?) Liverpool v Arsenal that I went to. Alot of clubs supporters were guilty of shit like that but Liverpool were notoriously bad for it.
Re: Hillsborough
Posted by TopH on 15/4/2025, 12:14:28, in reply to "Re: Hillsborough"
The narrative has changed from it was 100% the fans fault(wrongly said at the time), to anyone daring to say any fan was at fault in anyway is a total bastard
Re: Hillsborough
Posted by EastEnder on 15/4/2025, 12:20:15, in reply to "Re: Hillsborough"
The main fuck-ups were the police did not shut the central tunnel once the central pens were full - as they had done the previous year.
And KO wasn't delayed to allow everyone to get in without panicking they would miss KO.
That area outside the Leppings Lane end is tiny for the number of fans that had to be processed through it.
Re: Hillsborough
Posted by RADSB on 15/4/2025, 12:31:09, in reply to "Re: Hillsborough"
The previous season they closed off Leppings Lane at both ends and only fans with tickets were allowed near the turnstiles. However in 1989 a new Police Officer was in charge who had no experience in football crowd control so the barriers were not up. The ticketless fans were causing problems by climbing over the walls and pushing resulting in a crush so the Police opened the gates, fans saw the pitch down the tunnel and....Mr J.C. Lomax having been called upon to give his opinion upon the proposed formation of a Town Club, said he was most emphatically in favour of a proposed Luton Town Football Club - 11th April 1885
Re: Hillsborough
Posted by Alien Nate on 15/4/2025, 12:28:35, in reply to "Re: Hillsborough"
Not to mention all the trouble caused by fans at all clubs in the previous 15 years.
The vagabond is rapping at your door. Standing in the clothes that you once wore.
Re: Hillsborough
Posted by SAHB on 15/4/2025, 12:46:46, in reply to "Re: Hillsborough"
Fences going up was a big factor. If their were no fences fans would of escaped onto the pitch.
There were many crushes in the 70s when fans ended up on the pitch.
I was pulled out onto the pitch from the Oak Rd a couple of times when I was a kidThis is no season for loving This is the season of pain
Re: Hillsborough
Posted by EastEnder on 15/4/2025, 12:36:14, in reply to "Re: Hillsborough"
Yep they wouldn't open the gates behind the goals to let fans spill on to the pitch as they thought it was a pitch invasion - however, it must have been obvious people were getting seriously hurt in there and worse.
Re: Hillsborough
Posted by Alien Nate on 15/4/2025, 12:40:04, in reply to "Re: Hillsborough"
I was working and had radio on. I remember at one stage, the commentary said some Forrest were briefly trying to get on pitch, as they apparently thought a clash had started.
The vagabond is rapping at your door. Standing in the clothes that you once wore.
Re: Hillsborough
Posted by RADSB on 15/4/2025, 12:51:47, in reply to "Re: Hillsborough"
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What you read on here is 100% conjecture, fiction, lies, bullshit and complete bollocks. If you want to be taken seriously, you are in the wrong place.
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on 15/4/2025, 10:40:14