This messageboard is for Adults 18 years and over.
If you are under this age please leave the board.
Luton Outlaws accepts no responsibility for the content of this messageboard nor any other
content posted on it.
Luton Outlaws disclaims all liability for such content to the fullest extent permitted by law.
What you read on here is 100% conjecture, fiction, lies, bullshit and complete bollocks.
If you want to be taken seriously, you are in the wrong place.
Any potentially libellous comments that might jeopardise the future of this messageboard will therefore be deleted, and the person posting them will receive a
ban.Enjoy.
Poll: Next Season
Posted by joey diconio on 10/3/2025, 10:38:18
If we assume it’s looking pretty bleak for staying up, without the usual vitriol and just answering a simple question…..
(We don’t need your if, buts and maybes)Working class Lutonian
Re: Poll: Next Season
Posted by Garstang Hatter on 10/3/2025, 15:53:54, in reply to "Poll: Next Season"
Playing devil's advocate slightly here, as I don't know much about the details, but here goes:
A lot of people seem to think we need a director of football, so that GS isn't as heavily involved in the football side of things. But I'm sure it was suggested on here at one point that James Mooney (Operations Manager) is almost taking on that role already. And he joined in May 2023, so if that is true then you could argue that model is not working for us - and that we actually need GS to become more involved in the football side of things again, not less!"Never too high, never too low"
Re: Poll: Next Season
Posted by HH on 10/3/2025, 15:14:35, in reply to "Poll: Next Season"
If you boil it down to a simple binary question, the answer is still yes for me.
But, being brutally honest, the failings this season are catastrophic and cannot be simply argued as bad luck. It's a complete failure at every level footballing wise which threatens to set us back years a club. The revenue drop off next season will be absolutely massive.
The issues, whatever they were, are deeper than Rob Edwards and need to be identified and rectified.
And we do need much better comms moving forward and a kit shop which has more than a pair of XXXL third kit shorts in stock.
It shouldn't be a choice between that and a new stadium. And I don't see the stadium as mitigation for the above failures. We've had plenty of resources the last 3 years to allow for most of it.
Re: Poll: Next Season
Posted by BoydCrowdersCollar on 10/3/2025, 15:26:30, in reply to "Re: Poll: Next Season"
How do you mean set us back years?
I think it's disappointing/annoying/irritating, but I don't think it's catastrophic
It is a cliche (cause it's true) but I am very much in the never too high, never too low John Still camp. I am also in the Joe Kinnear camp of "football fans are donuts" (myself included)
As well as the more tangible stuff that others have listed, momentum is very important in sport. It will probably take years to arrest this sudden downwards momentum if we don't get promoted straight away next year (which we likely won't)
The big problem we'll have is a load of footballers who have turned to shit within a very short period who I can't see ever getting back to what they were. They are on big wages and no other fucker will want them so we will be lumbered with an unmotivated, unconfident and expensive squad that will prove very difficult to overhaul in the summer, potentially leading to more dross next season
We had a great opportunity to properly establish ourselves at the top 2 levels of English football after promotion to the Prem. Turn us into a WBA or a Norwich or even a Sheff Utd or Burnley. Instead we are a Stoke, Cardiff, Huddersfield, Blackpool type.
This season has been a monumental fuck up by so many. Utterly incredible
I don't think it's a fair comparison, the idea of turning us into a WBA or Norwich. A lot of those clubs already had the infrastructure that we did not and need to build . . . ground, commercial and business systems, academies etc nearer the level, squads and staff that over periods of years had far more invested in them before promotion.
We still don't have the infrastructure, a lot of our staff and systems ware brand new and untried for the EPL. It's just nowhere near a fair comparison or expectation.
Club and management were talking about a tilt at auto promotion in the summer, so they certainly saw us as a WBA or Norwich (our income was bigger than theirs this season, of course) or a Sheff Utd or Burnley
But even if we agree to disagree on that, the fact we're bottom 2 with 15 defeats out of 18 away games, including a nothing performance at our local rivals' place, I'm sure we can agree that we've fallen way, way, WAY short of even the most modest expectations
Yes, I still can't really fathom why they said those things at the start of the season, but they did.
And no, no-one is pretending that this season to date has been anything but failure football-wise. Though maybe in the likes of Asgaard and Makosso we have some building blocks for the future. But that's a very different discussion, apart from a current bubble in income we are currently nowhere near the kind of clubs you mentioned.
For us to begin to genuinely match them, we simply have to have Power Court and the upgraded academy.
We had been more than a match for WBA in 2022 and 2023. We finished above them both seasons and obviously finished above them last year. I disagree that we are 'nowhere near' WBA and Norwich especially with the very significant 'bubble of income' that we enjoyed this season
I agree that to put us into the next bracket, PC is all-important but we were actually doing fine without it before this shit show of a season
Anyway, my main point is that L1 football could, very conceivably, set us back years. Just when things were finally moving in terms of infrastructure/PC
We managed, as a one-off, to be temporarily better than them in first team football terms for a season. It was a fabulous achievement by everyone at the club.
There is so much more to it than that if you want to sustain a level of performance which is what I took you to mean when you said match them.
That's something that we are still years away from.
We managed, as a one-off, to be temporarily better than them in first team football terms for a season
West Brom?
We were better than them for 3 seasons, surely? And I saw them at the home game (and a couple of times on the box) this season and they were shite. It really didn't need a huge number of better decisions/better judgements at the club for us to have matched that dross this season
You can cherry pick instances, and yes we were better than them for a couple of season before our temporary rocketing income. A couple of seasons out of how many?
How many other clubs with our level of facilities and without huge backing consistently finish near or above these clubs that you mention? And how often do they do it versus how often they don't do it?
That's the reality and why we are still so far off, to sustain a challenge at this level you either need to continue to significantly outperform these clubs or you have to get much closer to their sustained income levels. You can sometimes manage it occasionally but to be consistently competitive in the Championship you need that base.
You said we were only better than WBA for a season. One season. That is what you said.
You're wrong. We were better than them for 3 seasons. That is a fact. I'm just correcting you.
If we're saying we are 'nowhere near' West fucking Brom we may as well just give up (although, as I say, we have been competing with them and, until this season, have been better than them since the 2021-22 season). I don't get the inferiority complex
I think you're deliberately ignoring the point. The "no" was that just because you cherry picked a couple of seasons where we managed to be better than them it doesn't negate the fact that they will still have better ongoing revenue streams than us after this bubble.
We, do not match their income after that, so it's simply wrong to suggest we can "become" a West Brom, Norwich etc, as you put it, without some kind of major backing or improved infrastructure.
They simply have a better chance than us because they consistently have that money and those facilities and historical investment that we don't.
No, it's you that's missing the point that I specifically picked you up on in one of your posts
You said we were better than West Brom for a season. One season
We were better than them for 3 seasons. I'd say that is a good run and proof we are, actually, now quite near West Brom
I specifically said earlier, that we will have to agree to disagree on whether we are 'nowhere near' WBA or not. We are nowhere near, say, Brighton. We are not 'nowhere near' WBA
+1. There was no reason that with prudent management across the board, we couldn’t have established ourselves in the same bracket as WBA/Norwich in years to come.
The infrastructure point from MG is correct in the short term, but evidently we’ve set aside a large chunk of the 202 million from the prem, to bridge that gap; I.e funds towards Power Court, the flats, academy, medical facilities, training pitches etc.
If we hadn’t fucked up the football operations so badly and had a few seasons of championship mediocrity (hardly lofty expectations), then ultimately we would be on a similar ish level to the likes of WBA.
Okay, right, if you want to concentrate on that individual thing rather than the overall point that we were debating then fine. But the point I was trying to make was that it's possible to occasionally beat them without the sustained income but that doesn't make you one of those clubs.
If you re-read the thread you stated that we had a great chance to become one of the consistent Championship teams. I'm saying that no, we did not. We might have had some chance but only some and the path we have chosen - long term investment - is the only way we are likely to ever do it. Without long term investment we are only likely to do it sporadically at best. That's the simple reality of it, and you go look at the very strong correlation between levels of income and levels of success and it becomes plain and obvious.
2 years of parachute payments, taking us to a year or so until the move to PC (even without another promotion), WAS a great opportunity to become established as one of the consistent championship teams. A level where we belong, historically, and that history then being helped by 2 years-worth of parachute payments, where our income would be higher than most of the division for those 2 seasons
I'll say it again, we will have to agree to disagree on your main point. I don't think we are 'nowhere near' West Bromwich bleeding Albion. A slightly lower bracket maybe but not 'nowhere near' them. That is an exaggeration
Can we stop talking about West Brom. You said clubs like that, ie established Championship clubs.
You might think we are close to them in terms of infrastructure but that's ignoring the reality of what is actually out there. Get the academy, get Power Court, give us time to develop that level of teams and processes and then we will have a decent chance. I think it's one thing this season has added some pretty substantial evidence for.
Where did I say we are close to them in terms of infrastructure? Where have I disagreed that PC is absolutely crucial to our long term success?
I said we have blown a big opportunity to achieve long-term parity on the pitch with those clubs with the parachute payments taking us almost to PC, even without a promotion
You are the one that challenged me on WBA and Norwich. I just cited them as examples of where we should have been aiming this season and beyond as we continue to develop and grow. I dispute we are 'nowhere near' West Brom and clubs like them, which is what you said. We are a couple of notches below them, no doubt, but 'nowhere near' them is an exaggeration
And, as illustrated by the remarks in the summer, the club agree with me
I think you’re missing MC’s overall perspective. He’s rightly stating that there is currently a gap between us and WBA/norwich etc, however the revenue we’ve accrued from promotion allows us to bridge that gap in terms of our infrastructure. That is the ‘long term investment’ that you point out.
Had we achieved a few more years of stability, whilst the wider infrastructure was completed, it’s then conceivable that we would have been in a similar bracket to WBA/Norwich etc.
But Power Court is due to open in 2027-28, when the massive investment will kick in. That’s very close. After three consecutive seasons of out-performing WBA, even if they were due to overtake us again, we should be outperforming at the very least Oxford, Plymouth and Millwall this season, and, say, Wycombe next season. I’m not saying we should have been playing the sexy free flowing football to take us back to the Prem that we were (stupidly) promised by Edwards and 2020. But, given the bubble of resources, it’s dismal that we seemingly haven’t got enough about us to hang around lower table for three seasons.
Re: Poll: Next Season
Posted by The Questioner on 10/3/2025, 20:43:30, in reply to "Re: Poll: Next Season"
Genuine question, how will we have massive investment from Power Court? Are you talking about additional match day revenue , sponsorship etc or are the club going to get other monies from outlet rentals etc or is that going to the investors? I don’t know but would have thought the returns from Power court whilst a significant improvement from kenilworth rd (where I assume we pay rent ) will still be no where near the premiership and subsequent parachute payments.
Re: Poll: Next Season
Posted by Nearly a Genius on 10/3/2025, 23:07:33, in reply to "Re: Poll: Next Season" Legend of Outlaws
We pay a “peppercorn rent”, mad most people know.
Re: Poll: Next Season
Posted by Nearly a Genius on 10/3/2025, 23:08:13, in reply to "Re: Poll: Next Season" Legend of Outlaws
I would also add that the PL parachute money is probably going to be far in excess of anything a new stadium will ever deliver for us in terms of income.
We're not going to be turning over £50m+ in a 25k seater stadium in the Championship, unless we've some very handsome profits from player trading to go alongside it.
It helps close the gap but we're always going to have to be punching above our financial weight.
Yes, and my point is that those teams (generally) have so much more than just the stadium in terms of mature teams of people (eg recruitment, data analysis etc) staffed nearer the level than we could. We have been scrambling to hit near the standard while they start from there.
Re: Poll: Next Season
Posted by Ramridge Raider on 10/3/2025, 17:29:11, in reply to "Re: Poll: Next Season"
I think they genuinely thought we had the squad that could get us back up.
That clearly was a major error in judgment by all at the club, particularly the 'football people'. That misjudgement meant a flawed recruitment campaign which only compounded the problem.
I hate to say this but Cuba was probably closer to the problem than our so called experts!
Agreed. Every single 'football person' at the club has failed. Recruitment, that Mooney fella, Edwards and his coaches, medical team, analysts. Edwards should have been jettisoned in November
Incredible that everyone of the above thought we had enough in the summer. A collective fuck up of huge proportions
Bloomfield is hardly ripping it up, either, but I don't think we can lay much blame at his door
Yes but when you use a scattergun approach you are likely to get somewhere near the target.
Re: Poll: Next Season
Posted by BoydCrowdersCollar on 10/3/2025, 16:36:35, in reply to "Re: Poll: Next Season"
I disagree on some of your points (which is OK I guess).
We're a top 42 club if you go by pure history ("they" are 44 I think). I also think WBA, Norwich, Sheff U, Burnley, Stoke are "bigger" clubs than us - Cardiff questionable - in terms of history/support etc - so I'd be thinking mid/lower Championship is our natural home, with occasional forays into playoffs/prem
I genuinely think a lot of supporters are more pissed off because they're embarassed and that drives high levels of emotion. There's now the move from being "happy to be here" to "we're doomed forever"
I do agree it's been a fuck up and it seems from outside, there was some complacency - which is the enemy of good.
But I can't let it get me so wound up I get upset enough to malign or slander people (not suggesting for a minute you are doing either). People made mistakes, people played badly - I don't think there are many deliberately malicious people in the club trying to get things wrong
Re: Poll: Next Season
Posted by Zobra The Greek on 11/3/2025, 13:00:00, in reply to "Re: Poll: Next Season"
Well, I'm not really sure what you are disagreeing with but to respond to what you've said there...
I'm not getting in to the 'ours is bigger than theirs' club size argument as a lot of it is subjective but there is no way we are that far behind those clubs you refer to in terms of club size, especially with the new ground on the way. Plus, clubs can grow (as well as decline) and we were in a brilliant place to grow but relegation will set us back years - again, the point that me and others have been making
Of course Luton fans are embarrassed. And so they should be. It is absolutely fucking embarrassing! FIFTEEN away defeats in 18 away games. That is utterly pathetic
I was replying specifically to your point challenging HH when he says relegation would set us back years. I'm not responding to the OP's poll and original post. I'm not deriding or maligning anybody. It has been a massive collective fuck up from everyone involved on the sporting side of the business and no one person is responsible and the whole organisation needs to take stock on what went wrong
As you say, the C'ship is our natural home but it is probably Norwich, Cardiff and Stoke's too despite their fans' delusion that they're more than that. But we won't even be in the C'ship in August! That's the problem
No one is saying 'we're doomed forever'. Your putting words in people's mouths. We're saying it will probably take us years to recover.
And neither is anyone saying that there was a malicious plan to get things wrong. But, if someone did come in with the sole aim of sabotaging us, they couldn't have done a better job
Re: Poll: Next Season
Posted by BoydCrowdersCollar on 10/3/2025, 17:49:22, in reply to "Re: Poll: Next Season"
Noted on who you were responding to - that's a fair point but not trying to attribute any of the derision of maligning to you either.
I maybe disagree with the part about establishing us as a top 2 levels but maybe I am more disagreeing with the OP than you. I do also disagree on the club size thing, but I'm not going to go G Jones and Forest here. We do have a lot of catching up to go to get to them.
I am paraphrasing (the ultimate get out) people's words when I say doomed forever. But there is so much pearl clutching and over drama on twitter it's insane - e.g. "2020 have blood on their hands" etc. It's a cycle, it will come and go. We'll be back. Even if it does take us years. Being embarassed about Luton being shit again doesn't make me want to say that about anyone.
It's more than a bit shit yep, but I never thought we'd be in the Prem (I did, however, confidently say to my Dad on the way home from Notts County that we'd go straight back up)
You do make good, clear, points. Have you considered a podcast?
Twitter is mad and I have never been a big user of it and, now, never go on it. Made even worse in recent years of course. If there is stuff like that on there, then, I agree with you - that is pathetic and people need to grow up
Podcast? Ha! There is enough noise as it is. My 'podcast' is moaning in the pub with mates 'n' chums, moaning to my eldest regularly and moaning on WhatsApp groups
I'm sure those that will lose their jobs once relegation happens will be cheered to hear it doesn't upset you that much.
Re: Poll: Next Season
Posted by BoydCrowdersCollar on 10/3/2025, 17:50:55, in reply to "Re: Poll: Next Season"
I'm sure they'll be delighted by your current and future thoughts and prayers. I feel sorry for anyone who loses their job due to incompetence or issues outside of their control. But that wasn't what I was getting at and I'm sure you don't really give a fuck either?
Financially, attracting decent players, losing any decent players, club and staff morale, potential to attract investment, ticket sales both home and away. The list is almost endless, from where we were , to be almost in league one is a monumental fuck up and will take years to get back if we ever do. Even if we do stay up I think we’ll be fighting relegation for a couple of seasons.
If we go down and don't bounce back immediately we would have gone from a 100m+ turnover to approx 10m within two years.
Any club, even a well run one, will struggle to manage that and the consequences of it - potentially the impact it might have on retention and recruitment of youth players, the inevitable redundancies within the club, even the overall reputation hit that goes with being a club which suffers successive relegation despite having parachute payments.
Re: Poll: Next Season
Posted by Ramridge Raider on 10/3/2025, 15:54:30, in reply to "Re: Poll: Next Season"
I think it could easily set us back years. The financial consequences are frightening when you look at our wage bill and what our revenue will be in League One.
The final year parachute payment needs to be managed incredibly astutely.
It would though be cheaper to overhaul the squad in league 1 than the Championship. Still not easy either way, but I'd have more confidence with us going back to the hungry types of players we used to buy than recent recruitment in the PL/Championship.
We would need to offload a load of our wage bill, but it might be easier to allow those players who have proven themselves as currently strong Championship players to clubs we won't be competing with next season.
Next season on its own isn't an issue financially because of the parachute payments, but like you say they need to be managed astutely. It does mean there is a whole season to get the wage bill down significantly, but that would need to happen anyway if we do stay up (or if we go down and come straight back up - not that I'm counting on that).
In short, whilst it's a fuck up I don't think it should be a financial disaster. If I'm feeling optimistic I think it could be a good chance for a reset. And at least there will be more Saturday 3pm kick offs.
Re: Poll: Next Season
Posted by Ramridge Raider on 10/3/2025, 16:27:06, in reply to "Re: Poll: Next Season"
Agree with the 3pm kick offs.
The rebuild will be huge though. Maybe not dissimilar to the -30 points season in terms of the numbers of in's/out's.
I get why people are calling for it but don't underestimate the sheer scale of what will be needed. Could easily go horribly wrong.
It's not so much a financial disaster as a sporting one
With a new ground 2 or 3 years away, we should have cemented our position in the top 2 levels of English football after our windfall from the Prem and the good reputation/good will, which we got relegated with
All that achievement from 2014 to 2023 and a lot of that has gone in the relative blink of an eye. For it all to end up back in L1 2 years after that day at Wembley is a sporting 'disaster'
Fair enough, you seem to be a bit fixated with GS lately that's all.
As others have said yeah he has fucked up but so have others. We all know he is genuine in wanting to do the best for the club not sure you get anyone else in who would put the amount of hours he has for the good of the club, regardless of the salary paid. This is no season for loving This is the season of pain
I think I’ve been boringly consistent in my opinions on how I’ve felt about of the lack of communication, the lack of accountability, the lack of thought given to the everyday supporters.
Even when we were winning most weeks for a decadeWorking class Lutonian
You obviously want something different from the club tham I and quite a lot of others that don't think it's that important the club communicate all the time. It was never a thing before social media. This is no season for loving This is the season of pain
No one wants communication 'all the time' but by his own admission its not been good enough.
Re: Poll: Next Season
Posted by RGDave on 10/3/2025, 13:13:31, in reply to "Poll: Next Season"
They've made a bit of a balls up of it this season, but they'll learn as they did after a while in The Conference. Edwards personal issues and the constant injuries post Lockyer let them down in the end. One really bad season in 14 odd years isn't bad going in the round. Of course he should stay. We'll probably have to invest in players with little or no long term history of injuries, which have undermined us heavily.
Re: Poll: Next Season
Posted by The Cruiser on 10/3/2025, 12:48:10, in reply to "Poll: Next Season"
It's a bit of a daft question. In order to answer that with any confidence you would need to know what the alternative scenario would be - who or what would replace him.
Apologies you’re right I should have interviewed a few candidates before putting a poll on a soon to be 3rd division football teams sparsely populated messageboard.Working class Lutonian
Posted by Ramridge Raider on 10/3/2025, 12:21:54, in reply to "Poll: Next Season"
I look at the ownership models at many other clubs and thank fuck for 2020.
As an example, Watford are doing better than us this season but they have a bunch of crooks running their club. Same for many other Champ clubs.
2020 have clearly made mistakes but there is no doubting that they have the genuine interest of the club at heart. We know they will be hurting and will be determined not to make the same mistakes again.
Not going to write them off on the back of one awful season.
Pozzo - not a WFC fan - has had the sycophant Duxbury - not a WFC fan - as CEO earning £950k to £1m a year whether ELP or EFL just to not explain anything at all about the club. Zero transparency. Duxbury said last year in the cost cutting measures announcements that his salary would halve while they were in the EFL - the acoounts will tell us later this year whether that's true.
2020 are fans, well in credit, not crooks and have admitted their mistakes this season. The club is well off compared to many. Mr J.C. Lomax having been called upon to give his opinion upon the proposed formation of a Town Club, said he was most emphatically in favour of a proposed Luton Town Football Club - 11th April 1885
Re: Poll: Next Season
Posted by Ramridge Raider on 10/3/2025, 12:56:10, in reply to "Re: Poll: Next Season"
I have no doubt that our longer term future is far rosier than Watford's under the Pozzo's/Duxbury.
It just makes this season even more frustrating as I fully expected they would be in a relegation battle this season whilst we would be comfortably mid-table.
Re: Poll: Next Season
Posted by crumpsall on 10/3/2025, 12:11:10, in reply to "Poll: Next Season" MIB
Seriously?
You know full well what GS has achieved and is achieving as CEO so why shitstir yet again?
What, exactly, is it you want or are aiming to achieve?
Not to take away from his achievements as CEO, but there will come a time in the not too distant future when he will step down.
Perhaps that time isn't this close season, but I could see a scenario where we have a change in CEO and GS remains in a key position on the board where his experience and guidance would be invaluable, but not running the club day to day.
I'm firmly behind the ownership model of having supporters as owners and we are lucky to be in this position now, but the CEO role should be the best person for the job. I wouldn't expect the next one to be a life long supporter necessarily.
Of course I understand the point you’ve been banging the same drum for 15+ years.
99% of people I’ve disliked have been those I’ve felt took the piss out of the club or its supporters.
The easiest way to attempt to undermine people is to make them out to be irrational or deranged, there’s at least 2 decent examples on this thread.Working class Lutonian
You do develop fixations with people you take a disliking to and tend to disregard any reasonable debate or balance surrounding them once you've reached that point.
He posted at 10:38 101 people have "voted". Seems a bit unlikely for a Monday morning. Could be wrong. What would you do if, you found her dead on the ground?
9.38, in fairness, as the Boardhost clock is an hour out. It’s way too much of a binary poll, despite Joey’s “instructions.” Do I want Sweet in overall charge of the club? Absolutely. Do I want the club to appoint someone else to oversee the footballing side like transfer negotiations? Also yes.
You think this is bad, my mate sent me a couple of screenshots from We Are Luton Town Facebook group over the weekend:
"The penny is finally dropping with me. Our board of directors are responsible for where we are now as a club"
So presumably, the previous 15 years were down to other people, Debbie Cleverley (oh the fucking irony there)?
"Is it time to sack the Board?"
Darren Housden's going to buy them out, presumably.
I should imagine the comments make interesting reading, but I'm guessing it's the usual back seat drivers DEMANDING someone else do something, being egged on by the likes of Borino who'd have sucked up to Gurney for a couple of used matchballs.
The posts made on this board are the opinions of the people posting them and do not always reflect the opinion of the board
administration.
Luton Outlaws is a totally independent forum, paid for and run by supporters of Luton
Town and is not associated with Luton Town Football Club, lutontown.co.uk, lutonfc.com, Loyal Luton Supporters Club, Trust in Luton, Luton Town Supporters Club or
anyone else for that matter and is declared a 100% Tombola Free Zone.
Luton Outlaws accepts no responsibility for the content of this messageboard nor any
other content posted on it. Luton Outlaws disclaims all liability for such content to the fullest extent permitted by law.
What you read on here is 100% conjecture, fiction, lies, bullshit and complete bollocks. If you want to be taken seriously, you are in the wrong place.
Enjoy. Admin contact - dilligaf.outlaws@gmail.com.
on 10/3/2025, 10:38:18
