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    Birmingham v Wrexham

    Posted by Hatsworth on 17/9/2024, 21:56:12

    Clearly the desire to take this game to the USA is strong and, frankly, in time the owners of these clubs will probably push hard to do it.

    Obviously our history shows that we haven’t in the past just rolled over and let these types of people take the piss (take the club off us) like Birmingham and Wrexham fans seem to have done in exchange for a couple of promotions or big money transfers.

    Question is, do you think our fan base still has the nuts to do what we did in the gurney / PinkneyMitchell and other times? What would we do if we ended up with owners who were more interested in US$ than understanding that they are custodians of a community’s club?

      Re: Birmingham v Wrexham

      Posted by crumpsall on 17/9/2024, 23:45:47, in reply to "Birmingham v Wrexham"

      Did you clock the Trust press release on Friday - representative speaking at a House of Commons presentation about our club, football and the community? Lots going on.

        Re: Birmingham v Wrexham

        Posted by Hatsworth on 17/9/2024, 23:52:29, in reply to "Re: Birmingham v Wrexham"

        It’s fcuking amazing, isn’t it? Genuinely a great time to be a hatter. At last I have the feeling that my friends and workmates are realising I might have been right all along. Envy is building.

          Re: Birmingham v Wrexham

          Posted by crumpsall on 18/9/2024, 0:01:07, in reply to "Re: Birmingham v Wrexham"

          Excellent!

          Out there, people are recognising that our club are a beacon of common sense and sustainability. The Trust have a leading voice too. So much to be chuffed and proud about

          And yet on here you might think we're owned by dodgy fuckers and have a toothless fanbase, judging by some posters.

          These are bloody amazing times to be Luton fans.

            Re: Birmingham v Wrexham

            Posted by Alhatter on 18/9/2024, 10:41:03, in reply to "Re: Birmingham v Wrexham"

            Trolls are not Luton fans.

            Re: Birmingham v Wrexham

            Posted by EastEnder on 18/9/2024, 0:09:06, in reply to "Re: Birmingham v Wrexham"

            Once Power Court is being constructed then it will be hard for people to be too negative.

            It's the best thing to happen to the town since they burnt the Town Hall down.






            Re: Birmingham v Wrexham

            Posted by clarky on 18/9/2024, 0:08:19, in reply to "Re: Birmingham v Wrexham"

            Just to be embroiled in football is enough,heady days,spring in me step..Forza Manchester Forza Australia Forza Lewsey Farm

        Re: Birmingham v Wrexham

        Posted by Truth is on 17/9/2024, 22:22:13, in reply to "Birmingham v Wrexham"

        No. Only the old school support think that way.
        Our next generation of entitled supporters will do whatever they are told to do.
        Even our beloved 2020 has changed. Gs with his announcements once every 6 months that the new lot lap up. The shite spouted by him would have been shot down even a decade ago. Questions would have been asked wheres the money gone? The average modern football fan just wants to watch their team.

          Re: Birmingham v Wrexham

          Posted by EastEnder on 17/9/2024, 22:37:02, in reply to "Re: Birmingham v Wrexham"

          The money has gone on Power Court. Not in John Mitchell's back pocket.

          There's your answer.

            Re: Birmingham v Wrexham

            Posted by crumpsall on 17/9/2024, 22:56:37, in reply to "Re: Birmingham v Wrexham"

            People being cunts about GS and 2020 can (and hopefully will) go fuck themselves.

            None of them, as far as I know, have ever done a thing to fight for our club, unlike every bod involved in 2020, Power Court and the aim of sustainable football for future generations

              Re: Birmingham v Wrexham

              Posted by Truth is on 17/9/2024, 22:53:53, in reply to "Re: Birmingham v Wrexham"

              What's Mitchell got to do with it?
              Money was already in place fir PC. Regardless of promotion. Gs said that. Of course we've been able to now make bigger plans bit you saying all 170 million has gone into the new ground?
              I trust 2020. Most do. But don't make out that's where all the money has gone.

                Re: Birmingham v Wrexham

                Posted by The Outsider on 17/9/2024, 23:18:16, in reply to "Re: Birmingham v Wrexham"

                all 170 million

                That is over three years - we are only just at the start of year 2 so a fair chunk of it hasn't been received yet.

                  Re: Birmingham v Wrexham

                  Posted by EastEnder on 17/9/2024, 23:01:01, in reply to "Re: Birmingham v Wrexham"

                  It's not just the cost of building, is it?

                  Cost of clearing the land, planning, architects, rising cost of raw materials and labour.

                  Player wages higher than 2 seasons ago.

                  As long as no money has gone missing, then i dinr see why we need a breakdown of where the money has gone?

                    Re: Birmingham v Wrexham

                    Posted by Doctor Ince on 18/9/2024, 6:44:38, in reply to "Re: Birmingham v Wrexham"

                    If some investors have made some money back after years of funding the club then I don't see a problem with that

                    Re: Birmingham v Wrexham

                    Posted by crumpsall on 17/9/2024, 22:58:39, in reply to "Re: Birmingham v Wrexham"

                    So where's it gone, in your view, then?

                    Come on, let's hear it. No shitty little insinuations but actually what you're getting at.

                      Re: Birmingham v Wrexham

                      Posted by TRA on 17/9/2024, 23:06:04, in reply to "Re: Birmingham v Wrexham"

                      It’s clear he/she is saying they have pocketed the money? Or am I insinuating the worst ?

                      I obviously do not believe that is the case whatsoever!

                        Re: Birmingham v Wrexham

                        Posted by Truth is on 17/9/2024, 23:07:35, in reply to "Re: Birmingham v Wrexham"

                        You're insinuating crap. It was a question.

                          Re: Birmingham v Wrexham

                          Posted by TRA on 17/9/2024, 23:09:13, in reply to "Re: Birmingham v Wrexham"

                          Fair enough then

                          What are you getting at then? Absolutely genuine question

                            Re: Birmingham v Wrexham

                            Posted by Truth is on 17/9/2024, 23:12:58, in reply to "Re: Birmingham v Wrexham"

                            I'm getting at nothing. I'm interested to know where all the money has gone. It is the most lucrative promotion in the world yet we've seen no investment in the team. I'm sure you'd also like to know why?

                              Re: Birmingham v Wrexham

                              Posted by TRA on 17/9/2024, 23:20:49, in reply to "Re: Birmingham v Wrexham"

                              Do you know exactly how much the club have profited from promotion and exactly how much the club have spent on new players and wage increases etc ?

                        Re: Birmingham v Wrexham

                        Posted by Truth is on 17/9/2024, 23:05:03, in reply to "Re: Birmingham v Wrexham"

                        Not a clue. Not one. That's why I ask. Not on players. Are we not allowed to ask?

                          Re: Birmingham v Wrexham

                          Posted by crumpsall on 17/9/2024, 23:14:37, in reply to "Re: Birmingham v Wrexham"

                          Anyone can ask, of course. I'm sure there are answers, whatever you're looking for.

                          It's the sly, snide, drip drip insinuations about GS and 2020 that can fuck off. We have the best owners in senior football, we've just had a firm date for a superb new ground, what more do you fuckers want, seriously?

                          Is a new shirt update actually seriously more important to you?? Really? Ffs.

                          And I guarantee you GS will answer all your gripes once the planning application is all sorted. You can hold me to that. I've asked him.

                            Re: Birmingham v Wrexham

                            Posted by Truth is on 17/9/2024, 23:17:47, in reply to "Re: Birmingham v Wrexham"

                            That is good then. I didn't expect us to spend £100 million on players but am disappointed at the lack of spend both Jan and summer

                              Re: Birmingham v Wrexham

                              Posted by crumpsall on 17/9/2024, 23:25:59, in reply to "Re: Birmingham v Wrexham"

                              That's a bit different to the tone of your previous posts (and please don't try to do a Cuba and deny that, some of us aren't stupid). But funds were and are in place for transfers, if we choose not to play silly fuckers with agents then good on the club.

                              Personally, the one big fee we've paid is the one I'm so far least impressed with (but hope that will come good of course) and if free transfers are better business then I'm not just pleased but proud as punch about the way we do things.

                              An 8million turn around on a crocked player (who I loved as it happens) is bloody brilliant

                                Re: Birmingham v Wrexham

                                Posted by Truth is on 17/9/2024, 23:32:32, in reply to "Re: Birmingham v Wrexham"

                                You chose take the posts that way. We're near the bottom of the Championship. There's been a big lack of spend on the squad I trust 2020 but am interested to know where the money has gone. That is it. No agenda, no nothing .

                                  Re: Birmingham v Wrexham

                                  Posted by Hatsworth on 17/9/2024, 23:47:29, in reply to "Re: Birmingham v Wrexham"

                                  Big lack of spend on the squad? What the fcuk are you dribbling on about. I’d bet they’ve broken our previous transfer record probably 7 times in 14 months.
                                  Anderson
                                  Chong
                                  Brown
                                  Nakamba
                                  McGuinness
                                  Kaminski
                                  Mengi
                                  Plus hashi.

                                  We’ve had England internationals, and fcuking good ones, in Barkley and Townsend and have just signed victor moses, who’s won about 6 major trophies including the champions league and the premier league.

                                  All of these players need paying. All of the costs from the way up need covering. Our crowds (income) is league 1 at best because of the ground, which is being addressed with a world class facility IN TOWN that people will actually want to go to.

                                  This is real life, not football manager. As has been said many times - if you are such a business genius click the link at the top of this page, contact them, invest and become a part owner. I’m completely sure they’ll accept if you’re in it for the good of the club.

                                    Re: Birmingham v Wrexham

                                    Posted by Truth is on 17/9/2024, 23:58:57, in reply to "Re: Birmingham v Wrexham"

                                    Yes. Big lack of spend. What was spent Jan? What was spent in the summer? Compare that to income.

                                      Re: Birmingham v Wrexham

                                      Posted by Kitman on 18/9/2024, 7:47:01, in reply to "Re: Birmingham v Wrexham"

                                      £40m paid in transfer fees over the last 3 windows isn't nothing mate. Not including (I'm calculating) another £70m on player wages and promotion bonuses over and above what we we spent pre promotion.

                                      Then add another £6-7m on academy and training facilities, £15m on KR and another £3-4m on football staff over that time.

                                      So, that's about a mere £135m additional spend just on football that you call nothing.

                                      You need to work harder at your conspiracy mate.

                                    Re: Birmingham v Wrexham

                                    Posted by crumpsall on 17/9/2024, 23:43:04, in reply to "Re: Birmingham v Wrexham"

                                    Yeah, right.

                                    I quote:

                                    'Gs with his announcements once every 6 months that the new lot lap up. The shite spouted by him would have been shot down even a decade ago. Questions would have been asked wheres the money gone? The average modern football fan just wants to watch their team.'

                                    If that's not shit stirring insinuation, I'm a dutchman. And I'm not.

                                      Re: Birmingham v Wrexham

                                      Posted by Truth is on 17/9/2024, 23:45:45, in reply to "Re: Birmingham v Wrexham"

                                      You saying questions wouldn't have been asked a decade ago? You saying we shouldn't ask questions now?

                                        Re: Birmingham v Wrexham

                                        Posted by crumpsall on 17/9/2024, 23:56:14, in reply to "Re: Birmingham v Wrexham"

                                        Where did I say or even vaguely suggest that? Questions are being asked now, in more valid routes than snide anonymous insinuations, just as they always have been.

                                        There's been a drip drip anti GS, anti 2020, anti Trust theme on here from some utter do-nothing, slag everything shitheads and as far as I'm concerned it's time to answer back

                                        And I'll back my credentials about actually asking GS and 2020 awkward questions against anyone I know of on here, without wishing to blow my own trumpet. Aside from Desperate Dan and my long term comrades in the trenches.

                                        Actions, not whines.

                                          Re: Birmingham v Wrexham

                                          Posted by Truth is on 18/9/2024, 0:01:52, in reply to "Re: Birmingham v Wrexham"

                                          It is the biggest forum this club has. Questions get asked. It is allowed. It is discussion. It is part of supporting a club.

                                            Re: Birmingham v Wrexham

                                            Posted by crumpsall on 18/9/2024, 0:05:43, in reply to "Re: Birmingham v Wrexham"

                                            Absolutely.

                                            But no excuse for negative, nasty, snidey cuntishness against that club and the people who sweat blood for it.

                                              Re: Birmingham v Wrexham

                                              Posted by TRA on 18/9/2024, 0:50:09, in reply to "Re: Birmingham v Wrexham"

                                              Agreed but what I will say is we are not all privy to the info you have

                                              Regardless, the anti 2020 is pretty embarrassing

                                      Re: Birmingham v Wrexham

                                      Posted by The Outsider on 17/9/2024, 23:36:15, in reply to "Re: Birmingham v Wrexham"

                                      As I posted above, you referred to £170 million. That is over three years and we are only just at the start of year 2 so quite a bit of it hasn't been received yet.

                                Re: Birmingham v Wrexham

                                Posted by EastEnder on 17/9/2024, 23:10:08, in reply to "Re: Birmingham v Wrexham"

                                McGuinness signing was reported as up to 10m over time.

                                How much did you want them to spend on players?

                                We are strong in most areas of the pitch.

                                  Re: Birmingham v Wrexham

                                  Posted by Truth is on 17/9/2024, 23:14:56, in reply to "Re: Birmingham v Wrexham"

                                  Giles and Barkley transfer fees covered that.
                                  Ogbene then went for 8.
                                  Don't give me crap about wages cos Barkley leaving freed up loads.

                                    Re: Birmingham v Wrexham

                                    Posted by Kitman on 18/9/2024, 7:50:57, in reply to "Re: Birmingham v Wrexham"

                                    We paid almost as much as we received for Giles. Are you only counting what suits you then?

                                      Re: Birmingham v Wrexham

                                      Posted by EastEnder on 17/9/2024, 23:21:34, in reply to "Re: Birmingham v Wrexham"

                                      You do realise that the Premier League cash is half what it was last season this year?

                                      Oh i see you wanted them to spend £40m on pksy
                                      players on big wages for no real reason other than to be seen to be blowing most of last season's income on players for one season in a shit or bust approach?

                            Re: Birmingham v Wrexham

                            Posted by crumpsall on 17/9/2024, 22:34:44, in reply to "Re: Birmingham v Wrexham"

                            You can give up if you like, fat cat football will (as above) eat itself but thankfully there are still people with fire in their bellies to fight for the future of not just our club but the club/community game itself and all it means


                            And they're not all old gits like me. Don't underestimate the younger generation.

                            Re: Birmingham v Wrexham

                            Posted by EastEnder on 17/9/2024, 22:13:11, in reply to "Birmingham v Wrexham"

                            I think we have more than enough fans who eould grt inolved still.

                            Bu4 i don't really see what Wrexham ownets have fine wrong?

                            They eetr going nowhee in non-league and are now in L1 in front of big crowds.

                            It's not like they've chsnged the club nsmes or colours..

                              Re: Birmingham v Wrexham

                              Posted by Hatsworth on 17/9/2024, 23:01:37, in reply to "Re: Birmingham v Wrexham"

                              Fair point.

                              I think I would feel like they’d taken my club and therefore part of my identity and made it into a reality tv programme for American audience. I think they’ve painted themselves as the saviour of the feckless.

                              Would take 2020 over Disney every day of the week and twice on Sunday. And that’s without getting all the promotions and wins and fun we’ve enjoyed in the last 10 years.

                              It’s not Wrexham’s Wrexham anymore. It’s Ryan Reynolds’ and rob mcelhenney’s play thing.

                                Re: Birmingham v Wrexham

                                Posted by EastEnder on 17/9/2024, 23:15:30, in reply to "Re: Birmingham v Wrexham"

                                Wrexham were shite fof years before they were bought.

                                If we had had ebough of the Conference after 5 years. How do you thibk their fans felt?

                                Obviously we woukd choose 2020 over Ryan Reynolds, but their fsns didn't hsve a similar choice.


                                  Re: Birmingham v Wrexham

                                  Posted by Hatsworth on 17/9/2024, 23:34:33, in reply to "Re: Birmingham v Wrexham"

                                  Fair point.

                                  But…. 2020 are fans. They were personally and directly* instrumental in sorting out the chaos before the chaos. That’s because of a bond us fans have with our club. It’s not common. Out of the population of Wrexham and their fan base - they should be able to rustle up some super talented business people. But they didn’t come forward, because the crisis wasn’t big enough, the bond wasn’t tight enough, or, as I think, both. We’re different to Wrexham, and we should be proud and not forget that.

                                  In terms of being a plaything, yes, Ryan Reynolds is better than sports washing human rights abusers, corporate leveragers and dodgy Russian gangsters looking to hide in plain sight. But it also seems fairly clear to me (cynic, maybe) that’s he’s in it for the tv programme and the profile - and the rest is an act.

                                  The 5 years in the non league is an important part of the “saviour of the feckless” narrative.

                                  * and the led us gloriously in the summer of 2022. I had renewed early as I was off to America for an extended period. When I came back i had to get myself off the season ticket list and get my money back off gurney. I won’t be going into great detail, but be assured it was clear what we needed to do, and they drove the lot. One fan at a time. I’m 100% sure we would not have a club now if the trust was not about then.

                                  As for Birmingham. Absolutely nutless. (I live within 20 miles of St Andrews and have friend who are supporters). Their old owners were robbing them blind and letting the ground literally rot away. And they kept giving their money but twice threw tennis balls onto the pitch. Woooooo. Absolute luck the amicans came along, but their soul is sold. It’s gone.

                                    Re: Birmingham v Wrexham

                                    Posted by EastEnder on 18/9/2024, 0:02:42, in reply to "Re: Birmingham v Wrexham"

                                    They probably do hsve all the tight peoole at Wrexham but they won't all know each other. So its not essy to form a consortium of fans.

                                    Where Gurney did us a favour wss that in 2007. Gary hsd already spoken to potential investors during the Gurney admib of 2003, so the seeds of 2020 were already sown.

                                    Its not all that easy to persuade a group.of individual fans with money who don't know each other to work and invest together and trust one another.

                                      Re: Birmingham v Wrexham

                                      Posted by The Outsider on 18/9/2024, 0:06:27, in reply to "Re: Birmingham v Wrexham"

                                      A lot of business plans, budgets, cash flows etc were prepared in 2003 which were adapted a few years later.

                                      Re: Birmingham v Wrexham

                                      Posted by The Outsider on 17/9/2024, 23:41:08, in reply to "Re: Birmingham v Wrexham"

                                      The stoppage for the tennis balls completely changed our game against them. We were all over them until then but, for some strange reason, we lost the momentum completely after the stoppage.

                                    Re: Birmingham v Wrexham

                                    Posted by EastEnder on 17/9/2024, 23:06:15, in reply to "Re: Birmingham v Wrexham"

                                    True but lets say 2020 did not exist then i think we would have had few complaints about Yank owners taking us from Conference to L1.

                                    They seem to visit Wrexham and connect with the local people even if a lot of the media coverage is quite cringe.

                                      Re: Birmingham v Wrexham

                                      Posted by crumpsall on 17/9/2024, 23:04:33, in reply to "Re: Birmingham v Wrexham"

                                      👏👏👏

                                      Bloody well said Hatsworth (the real one)

                                      And that path has been refused.

                                      Re: Birmingham v Wrexham

                                      Posted by TRA on 17/9/2024, 22:36:49, in reply to "Re: Birmingham v Wrexham"

                                      Have you turned off spell check / auto correct 🤣

                                        Re: Birmingham v Wrexham

                                        Posted by EastEnder on 17/9/2024, 22:38:45, in reply to "Re: Birmingham v Wrexham"

                                        Keyboard on my phone is shit / fat fingers.

                                        I can type properly when on my laptop, honest!

                                          Re: Birmingham v Wrexham

                                          Posted by TRA on 17/9/2024, 22:41:02, in reply to "Re: Birmingham v Wrexham"

                                          A poor workman always blames his tools 😉

                                      Re: Birmingham v Wrexham

                                      Posted by MkHat on 17/9/2024, 22:11:21, in reply to "Birmingham v Wrexham"

                                      Worries me too. Hopefully 2020 have enshrined that the sale of the club has to be agreed by the majority of the trust and supporters groups. Still that group of fans will change over time. The time to save the game from the money men is fast running out. I'm definitely up for telling them where to go.

                                        Re: Birmingham v Wrexham

                                        Posted by since 63 on 17/9/2024, 22:02:01, in reply to "Birmingham v Wrexham"

                                        franchise football is coming, all these American owners only investing in English clubs to take the game to America.

                                          Re: Birmingham v Wrexham

                                          Posted by EastEnder on 17/9/2024, 22:16:16, in reply to "Re: Birmingham v Wrexham"

                                          But if you had to choose between being owned by Yanks or Saudis, you would probably choose Yanks.

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