Luton Outlaws - The Avenue of Evil

Perspective, I think...

Posted by Cracker on 13/8/2024, 15:33:15

Just coming on to show a bit of balance…

Last night’s performance wasn’t acceptable, on any front. It was lethargic, half-paced and strewn with basic errors both physically and tactically. You could tell how this was going to play out from almost the first 5 minutes. Majority of possession passed along the back three, nothing insightful or threatening, nothing that looked even remotely like it could hurt Burnley, caught with a couple of sucker punch goals. Good night, Vienna. We rallied a little, showed a little bit of fight for 15 minutes, then totally faded. Shit night at the office. It happens. We made a good team look yards ahead us, when I think, if we’re firing, we aren’t that far away. I guess the frustrating thing, is apart from Dundee, the games I watched during preseason were exactly the same.

But, I really don’t get the anti-Edwards/Sweet sentiment at all. Its wild. I’m not an apologist, but I just think the level of teeth gnashing and chest beating isn’t really that valid. We lost. We were shit against a favourite with deeper pockets than us. It happens. It happens way more than people give credit for.

Its almost of as some posters and twitter goers think they’ve done this on purpose. Greedy Sweet not wanting to hand over cash like a modern-day Scrooge and Edwards wanting to ‘send a message’ to the board about not being backed so picks Johnson & Nelson? I mean seriously? Come on… Have you even been paying attention for the last 3 years?

I’m interested to know who the teeth gnashers think we should have signed? Who have we actually missed out on? Who aren’t we trying hard enough to get? Its ok saying ‘sign someone’ but who?

Sheaf- Come on. Why would the Coventry Captain come here. Is it a step up? Maybe, but we’re not playing £15million.
Rak-Sakyi- People are talking about £15million bids or a £1million loan fee and £25k a week? We’re totally priced out. Premier league cash or not. Why are we blowing the best part of £2.5 million on him?
McGuinness- £10million for a player no one outside of Cardiff has heard of? In a team floundering that leaks goals?

It’s almost as if these people, in their angry little minds think we aren’t actually trying to get players in? That we don’t have a plan. Haven’t thought about it? Or worse, being deliberately obtuse and having an agenda.

And who should we have played in the place of the youngsters? Was it right to throw them in? It didn’t work, but what choice did Edwards really have?

Holmes- Possibly, but he’s a bit lumbering for an outside centre back and right footed.
Pelly? Maybe, but Pelly has hardly showered himself in glory for a good 18 months. His last game against Celta Vigo, he bizarrely volleyed a simple back pass to their striker.

Both Johnson & Nelson featured for most of pre-season, Nelson notched twice and got some acclaim from those that watched the games. What should he have done? Played Pelly and Holmes instead? That was it. That would have solved it. Neither of those two could have done anything about those goals. I’d wager Holmes would still be puffing after Obobert now…

We have 6-7 players out. Yes, we need reinforcements, every single person in that stadium know that last night. Edwards knows it. Sweet knows it. Harford knows it. But we wont break everything to get someone in to appease the fans. That’s not us. We’re better than that. We will wait for the right person at the right price. And I for one support that.

I still stand by my statements previously that the ‘fan management’/PR at Luton is dire. For a club so connected to the fan base, it’s really lacking. The board are close enough to the supporter base to know what they need. Know the information they want. Its not new news. Yet we seem to be getting worse at it.

Re: Perspective, I think...

Posted by Hatter66 on 13/8/2024, 19:35:23, in reply to "Perspective, I think..."

Pelly headed it back.... proves how much attention you take.....

Re: Perspective, I think...

Posted by Um on 13/8/2024, 16:51:48, in reply to "Perspective, I think..."

Anything over a single sentence or less old son is wasted on here.

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Posted by Herve Baquet on 13/8/2024, 16:30:04, in reply to "Perspective, I think..."

We’ve likely missed out on some targets to clubs with larger wallets. People want us to compete financially with them and offer more money. GS and the board, I imagine, understand what we can and can’t afford to spend on fees and wages. And they’re not going to ever go above that. That’s always been the line in the sand. But people now seem to want us to cross that line.

Apart from a couple of managerial appointments and the odd low risk signing, they’ve not let us down. I’m not going to start pretending I know more than them about who we can and can’t afford.

Re: Perspective, I think...

Posted by Factotum on 13/8/2024, 16:49:16, in reply to "Re: Perspective, I think..."

Brabin G.
Jones G.
Money R.
Buckle P

Also sacking Mick. That’s more than a couple of manager mistakes.

On the plus side I’d give you Still and Nathan. Edwards is still jury out for me as had a good/ lucky half a season. That aside is on perhaps the worse streak in clubs history. One win in 18?

Re: Perspective, I think...

Posted by Nearly a Genius on 13/8/2024, 16:34:25, in reply to "Re: Perspective, I think..."

Well said

Re: Perspective, I think...

Posted by Andy Cappuccino on 13/8/2024, 16:14:58, in reply to "Perspective, I think..."

If Holmes and Pelly are not good enough why were they in the squad?

Re: Perspective, I think...

Posted by Ffs on 13/8/2024, 16:02:53, in reply to "Perspective, I think..."

Dont think I'm a teeth gnasher whatever that may be but I will give a go at reply to part of your post.

It's not our job to find players of the required level at the right price, who had heard of Osho, Clark, Eli, Doughty and several others before they signed?
The squad is short of numbers and a bit of quality. The recruitment team have got to get results, I don't buy this having to buy in the injury prone shop. We need to invest in some quality that we can improve and sell on when the time is right.

Re: Perspective, I think...

Posted by Shutupya on 13/8/2024, 15:53:27, in reply to "Perspective, I think..."

Mostly agree .... the only thing I disagree with is if Holmes and Pelly were fit I would have started them rather Johnson and Nelson, I just think players of their experience would have been more used to the first game of the season expectation against one of the potential division winners....

I appreciate to accommodate Holmes we would have had to play a different formation but sometimes you have to play the formation that suits the players.

This is also no slight on Joe or Zak, I hope they have great careers for us.

Re: Perspective, I think...

Posted by Bootin on 13/8/2024, 16:25:39, in reply to "Re: Perspective, I think..."

There were a lot of people wanted Nelson to play and moaned that we never use our young players. Mainly opinions on here have been made with hindsight (since the game).

I agree with Cracker's post which is well reasoned. I am equally sure that the club's hierarchy want to improve the squad but not the easy way and pay over the odds.

Re: Perspective, I think...

Posted by Shutupya on 13/8/2024, 16:28:06, in reply to "Re: Perspective, I think..."

I formed my opinion about Joe Johnson starting after the Celta friendly

Re: Perspective, I think...

Posted by The Dutchman on 13/8/2024, 15:48:41, in reply to "Perspective, I think..."

We look like a side that is used to losing. We needed to bring in 6-7 fresh faces to reverse that mentality.

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Posted by Kbot on 13/8/2024, 15:45:55, in reply to "Perspective, I think..."

I’m not anti Sweet or Edwards. I know without 2020 there would be no Luton. All I’m doing is asking to look at the current strategy and realise it needs to change. We can’t afford to keep conceding 4 goals a game performing like that. Don’t stereotype everyone who speaks up.

Re: Perspective, I think...

Posted by Cracker on 13/8/2024, 15:50:08, in reply to "Re: Perspective, I think..."

But we’re not going to concede 4 goals a game are we? And if we do concede 4 goals a game, every game, rightfully everything gets questioned. Strategically, tactically, and personnel wise.

One game. A shit one. But get a smidge of perspective. I’m all for people speaking up. I’m all for disappointment when we get whacked like we did last night. But these people acutely know what they are doing.

Re: Perspective, I think...

Posted by Kbot on 13/8/2024, 15:56:54, in reply to "Re: Perspective, I think..."

Look at results from Feb last year and it feels like a problem to me. If things were all about throwing money at it I’d understand but we have done far better with less for years. It’s more complex than just money. I just want us to show we are on to it. Something needs to change because there are clear signs the current approach isn’t working. Don’t leave it until it’s too late.

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Posted by Music Critic on 13/8/2024, 16:31:50, in reply to "Re: Perspective, I think..."

Most of us can handle a defeat

Most of us can not handle being uncompetitive, which is what we were last night

Money or no money, signings or no signings, being competitive is the only thing most of us really ask for. And we have been competitive virtually every season under 2020

I've said that this season is going to be strange compared to recently. There is going to be an expectation that hasn't been there since 2017 and Edwards, rightly, acknowledges this. There is nothing wrong with insisting on decent standards and rejecting mediocrity - in all walks of working life

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Posted by Notorious D on 13/8/2024, 16:44:41, in reply to "Re: Perspective, I think..."

Agree entirely.

Re: Perspective, I think...

Posted by Cracker on 13/8/2024, 16:12:48, in reply to "Re: Perspective, I think..."

I guess I do agree. It was clear we didn't get the last window in January right. We were left completely exposed. We didn't sign a replacement for Lockyer, who even the most rose tinted of staff members knew had no chance of playing at all post what happened at Bournemouth. And then the rest of the defence tumbled like 9 pins.

We also carried too many last year that were never going to contribute greatly at the level we were at: Pelly, Woodrow, Potts etc

Its far more complex than money, agreed. But the criticism is 'why aren't we spending cash?' we've got pockets full etc etc but its a fine balance as you say. We need the right players, in the right positions, with the right attitude, for the right cash. Its not as easy as spunking £20million on a Premier League player and crossing our fingers. I just think some of our fans think it is...

Re: Perspective, I think...

Posted by Crisps on 13/8/2024, 16:18:33, in reply to "Re: Perspective, I think..."

Remember it was Rob who didn't want anybody in more or less in January, except Hashi, the money was there, not always the boards fault.

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Posted by Always undisclosed on 13/8/2024, 16:01:01, in reply to "Re: Perspective, I think..."

Wise words

Re: Perspective, I think...

Posted by The Cruiser on 13/8/2024, 15:45:03, in reply to "Perspective, I think..."

There's very little in that that I disagree with, but the criticism of Holmes, intended or not, was unnecessary in my opinion.

Re: Perspective, I think...

Posted by Cracker on 13/8/2024, 15:52:15, in reply to "Re: Perspective, I think..."

And I think that’s fair. I probably shouldn’t have done that. But I wanted to I guess prove a point. With a needless and unwarranted analogy, granted.

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Posted by Tim on 13/8/2024, 15:45:02, in reply to "Perspective, I think..."

Agree with a lot of the things you have said but just a few questions, we have been given 43 million parachute the 2 teams that came down with Shef. Utd and Burnley look how many players they have bought in , I know Luton are very prudent with money , but there is a big difference between been prudent and been over cautious we should have more players in and everyone knows this no one can argue with that , for me it’s a case of closing the stable door when the horse has bolted.

Re: Perspective, I think...

Posted by Cracker on 13/8/2024, 16:05:16, in reply to "Re: Perspective, I think..."

Burnley have 33 players in their squad, 8 more than they can register this season. Its bloated. They admit that. Sheff Utd shed players last year, and were under an embargo, they’re playing catch up, admittedly they’ve signed well on paper.

Both these teams have far higher revenue than we do (excluding parachute payments) so are always going to be able to out muscle us. They both also (I think) have rich owners willing to haemorrhage debt in order to get back up. We don’t, and we won’t.

You are right, we’re probably 3-4 players down. I think even the most rose-tinted member of the club can see that. We also have 6-7 to come back.

Re: Perspective, I think...

Posted by Kbot on 13/8/2024, 16:09:50, in reply to "Re: Perspective, I think..."

Yet we finished higher than both of them last season.

Re: Perspective, I think...

Posted by Cracker on 13/8/2024, 16:21:34, in reply to "Re: Perspective, I think..."

Yeah. And suddenly our whole strategy is wrong after one game...

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Posted by Kbot on 13/8/2024, 16:43:17, in reply to "Re: Perspective, I think..."

Not being the worst doesn’t mean that there weren’t issues. I was just showing that although Sheffield and Burnley had more money that didn’t make them better than us. However, the end of last season and last night showed if we need to take notice and not leave it until it’s too late. It isn’t just one game. Things won’t just turn round on their own.

Re: Perspective, I think...

Posted by Cracker on 13/8/2024, 17:00:23, in reply to "Re: Perspective, I think..."

I think we all know there were issues, they were plain to see. And have been hanging around for 6 months or more at various levels of severity.

Look, I think we’re probably going to agree to disagree on this. My point is that the club know, and are acutely aware. It’s not through lack of trying. What we want just hasn’t come off. And I’d rather stick than pay over the odds for mediocrity. Even if that means a couple of early patchy performances.

Last nights result and performance aside, which was horseshit, I think we have a squad that is three of four players away from being very good at this level. A weaker squad than this one, went up last time on that glorious day at Wembley.

Keep the faith.

Re: Perspective, I think...

Posted by Kbot on 13/8/2024, 17:23:24, in reply to "Re: Perspective, I think..."

I’ll try. Afraid I’ve always been a glass half empty person rather than half full. Appreciate the genuine debate. I know we both want the same thing.

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Posted by Shutupya on 13/8/2024, 16:11:07, in reply to "Re: Perspective, I think..."

And whilst they threw money around we got Barkley for free

Re: Perspective, I think...

Posted by HH on 13/8/2024, 15:44:03, in reply to "Perspective, I think..."

Look, I do largely agree with you.

But, it's not just about signing players to appease the fan. It's about signing players to make the squad competitive at this level.

It's clear we're short. But we're always seemingly short these days and we cannot expect players who are always seem injured to suddenly come back and play 40+ games. Chances are we might suffer this sort of situation again if we keep on relying on the same players.

And it's not really for us to pick players out. We've been very fucking good at identifying players to improve us over the years. And for a myriad of reasons, it's not happened this year (yet). That might be due to budget etc and money but as Earls pointed out, that probably isn't going to go away anytime soon and may have even worsened.

Re: Perspective, I think...

Posted by Cracker on 13/8/2024, 16:20:21, in reply to "Re: Perspective, I think..."

I agree, it isn't. Its not our job. But I back the people whose job it is. They have got 75% of the signings we've made right. Repeatedly, for a number of years. But equally, is it our job to say 'Sign someone, splash the cash ffs' when we don't have a clue? And then roll our eyes when a injury prone midfielder from Swansea is sat in the stands. Maybe, we're supporters. But everyone at the club knows where we need help. The exact type of player in the exact positions and it probably isn't that far away from what we all think.

The fact we haven't signed players to replace or shore up, means either that they aren't available (yet) within our budget, or they chose to go somewhere else. So we're possibly on to person B,C,D. But we don't just need bodies. We need players that will improve us, or what is the point?

If they don't manage to pull a rabbit out of a hat by the end of August, then that really is the time to question it.

Re: Perspective, I think...

Posted by HH on 13/8/2024, 16:37:05, in reply to "Re: Perspective, I think..."

Yeah, again largely agree with you.

And I'm not judging the signing from Swansea whatsoever, if it's true. I've no idea about him and what sort of player he is. Hopefully he's a worthwhile addition.

I appreciate there is a lot of nuance to transfers and it's not Football Manager or FIFA career mode. The thing is, I also think sometimes players just need new faces in and around them to keep things fresh in the camp. Obviously that's not just signing someone for the sake of it, there's a balance to be had. We've lost some old faces this year, people who have been around the club for years. They need replacing.

There just feels an awful lot of work to do before the end of the window. And to go into a new season so light on numbers feels a slight dereliction, even when accounting for the mitigating circumstances.

Here's hoping to a productive end of the window and we can change the mood on Saturday.

Re: Perspective, I think...

Posted by Cracker on 13/8/2024, 18:21:00, in reply to "Re: Perspective, I think..."

Like you, I largely agree with what you’re saying.

Don’t get me wrong, I feel nervous about it. We are short. Unquestionably. There have been gaps, in my eyes since Jan that could and should have been filled. Only the upper echelons at the club know why that didn’t and hasn’t happened so far. It’s probably for a multitude of reasons. And it does feel, after last night that something wasn’t quite right. Barkley and Lokonga aren’t going to be replaced with Barkley and Lokonga players. But Barkley, could and should have been replaced with something else.

I’d always argue that a back 3 of Bell, Mengi, Burke is up there with the best at this level. With back ups of Johnson, Walters Holmes and Anderson it’s a really solid unit, if fit. And that’s the key question. I also think, if they’re sat behind Nakamba and Baptiste, that again feels like a solid solid championship defensive unit. But again, it’s ’if Fit’. We do definitely need to strengthen there.

Again, let’s keep the faith. It’s a tough game on Saturday. It won’t be easy. But we should be able to hurt Portsmouth in different ways than we failed to hurt Burnley. Even with a slightly squeaky back 3.

Re: Perspective, I think...

Posted by Ches Fordroad on 13/8/2024, 15:53:21, in reply to "Re: Perspective, I think..."

"it's not just about signing players to appease the fan"

It is for some though - literally, 'just sign someone, anyone'

Re: Perspective, I think...

Posted by Cuba on 13/8/2024, 16:04:34, in reply to "Re: Perspective, I think..."

There is some logic in that view (usually).

But even you have to admit that we are beyond the appeasement point.

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Posted by Notorious D on 13/8/2024, 15:45:36, in reply to "Re: Perspective, I think..."

+1.

Re: Perspective, I think...

Posted by Sandgrounder on 13/8/2024, 15:42:39, in reply to "Perspective, I think..."

Excellent summary, very fair.

We should be targeting the top 6 and we still have plenty of time to get some players in that will help us achieve that goal.

My only criticism, other than the general communication issues, is that Edwards needs to be a bit more pragmatic/flexible in his tactical approach with so many first choice players out.

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Posted by High town on 13/8/2024, 16:14:11, in reply to "Re: Perspective, I think..."

Gary Sweet has only ever communicated with the fans through the matchday programme.

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