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    NaG

    Posted by mmmm on 22/6/2024, 10:07:19

    Before the usual troll/idiot jumps in with is "hic" comments because he has nothing intelligent to offer I have replied to your challenge to "Really"/"Brains" on the subject of NATO. I'd be curious to hear what you think when you realise 'one of your own' (Labour) has said exactly the same thing.

      Re: NaG

      Posted by Madpig on 22/6/2024, 17:52:36, in reply to "NaG"

      I'll hang on til the movie comes out

        Re: NaG

        Posted by Dull post alert on 22/6/2024, 16:00:22, in reply to "NaG"

        6 hours of your life wasted....

        You absolute winner.

          Re: NaG

          Posted by Madpig on 22/6/2024, 21:00:55, in reply to "Re: NaG"

          Yeah. What is the purpose of the thread?

            Re: NaG

            Posted by Eh? on 22/6/2024, 23:57:13, in reply to "Re: NaG"

            Get off of it then you utter bellend!

            Re: NaG

            Posted by Oz Hat on 22/6/2024, 16:32:18, in reply to "Re: NaG"

            Mate, see my earlier post. You're ruining this Board.

            Re: NaG

            Posted by MG on 22/6/2024, 12:48:43, in reply to "NaG"

            Did you see Farage on Newsnight yesterday? You'd understand why people can't take him seriously. Politicians quite famously fail to answer questions but he constantly tried to talk over the interviewer and stop him even asking it in the first place.

            He states a lot of things as facts which are simply untrue, fundamental things, and it's endemic across his "party".

            When you challenge either him or local candidates (in my experience) they have absolutely nothing to say when questioned about their fantasy economics for example.

            He is simply telling a certain audience what they want to hear and people are lapping it up.

              Re: NaG

              Posted by Andy Cappuccino on 22/6/2024, 13:05:54, in reply to "Re: NaG"

              I don't really agree with him on Russia. But it beggars belief the number of those on the left who have slated him when they were quite happy to vote for Labour with a pro-Russia Corbyn as leader,

                Re: NaG

                Posted by HH on 22/6/2024, 15:01:19, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                Works both ways, doesn't it?

                You were (rightly) critical of some of Corbyn's statements about Russia and people who continued to back him.

                Yet when it comes to someone you largely agree with, you're equally prepared to overlook it.

                  Re: NaG

                  Posted by MG on 22/6/2024, 13:16:46, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                  Corbyn was not pro-Russian.

                  He certainly wouldn't have supported them being allowed to launder money in London like the Tories have, he wouldn't have appointed a certain Lord and he wasn't known to party with them either.

                  Re: NaG

                  Posted by mmmm on 22/6/2024, 13:00:56, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                  I did. He's man with strong views, most of which are ill informed and wrong. His only aim in this election is to damage the Conservative Party. None of that detracts from anything I've said in agreement with his view on what provoked the Ukraine invasion by Putin though. Even a busted clock is right twice a day (Unless it's digital , then just the once).

                    Re: NaG

                    Posted by MG on 22/6/2024, 13:33:37, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                    Yes, fair enough though I suspect that while hitting the Tories suits him, he actually thinks he can make a real go of it it in 2029.

                    Re: NaG

                    Posted by Just saying on 22/6/2024, 12:59:08, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                    And Labour & Tory politicians don’t do the same?

                      Re: NaG

                      Posted by MG on 22/6/2024, 13:14:46, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                      I made the distinction, I haven't see Starmer talk over an interviewer to stop him asking questions like that.

                      Funnily enough, if there was one politician who did always attempt to answer questions it was Corbyn. But well, we know what happened there.

                        Re: NaG

                        Posted by Mas on 22/6/2024, 18:26:41, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                        Why would Rodney talk over an interviewer when we all know he won’t answer the question anyway?

                        OOI what has Farage said that wasn’t true?

                          Re: NaG

                          Posted by MG on 23/6/2024, 8:41:24, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                          Green levies are the reason that energy bills are so high.

                          We can improve our energy security by further exploiting North Sea Oil and Gas and fracking.

                          The whole issue of manifesto costings, they all push the boundaries but Reform's outdoes Liz Truss by a distance. The interviewer spent some time just trying to ask that question.

                          And Tice quite incredibly stated that the IPCC report said that meeting Net Zero would make no difference to climate change. Have a read, see if you can find that in there.

                          That do for starters?

                            Re: NaG

                            Posted by Mas on 23/6/2024, 22:39:12, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                            Not sure where or who you are quoting MG.

                            For example I’ve heard them say the green agenda has increased energy costs but not that this was the only reason. Ditto the need for less reliance on imported energy, which surely nobody can seriously dispute? Fracking I’m not personally in favour of but I’m not aware of any unbiased proven reasons to not use it.

                            The majority of their budget plans are more reliant on cutting waste rather than just growth, which I don’t recall featuring at all with Truss.

                            Perhaps the bbc have caught you? They actually tried to twist the provoked Farage quote on the news report by stating that means caused it.

                              Re: NaG

                              Posted by MG on 24/6/2024, 9:55:30, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                              No, in that interview Farage said several times that our energy bills were too high and that the way they were going to fix this was to reduce spending on green tech. No mention of the other, far more impactful, reasons that the bills are so high at all.

                              If you understand how energy markets work then you will know that increasing North Sea oil and fracking will not benefit this country any more than any others. And even some of those involved with fracking now believe it is unlikely to work due to the geology of the UK. And no reason not to use it? You have your head a long way under the sand right now.

                              I'm basing these comments and the ones about the IPCC report claims based on interviews I have seen with Farage and Tice, not anyone else's interpretation of them.

                                Re: NaG

                                Posted by Mas on 24/6/2024, 19:46:31, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                                Right, so he didn't actually say green levies were the only reason energy bills are so high, just what their plan was to reduce them.

                                From what I know and recall when Putin invaded UKR energy prices soared due primarily to expectant supply issues. The less you have to import the less you have to pay but the crux of their policy is the word security.

                                The point Tice has tried to make is that in the scheme of things our contribution to global warming is minute compared to India, China etc and yet our industry is being made noncompetitive by sky high energy prices.

                                FWIW I found it uncomfortable watching as he fell right into the trap.I appreciate you have strong views on these matters but I'm sure you can see that importing things from the other side of the world is hardly greener than sourcing them from the UK, no matter how many ticks they give themselves.

                                At least he tried to be honest and answer the question, something that Rodney consistently fails to do and rarely gets pulled up on.



                                  Re: NaG

                                  Posted by MG on 24/6/2024, 22:39:37, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                                  This may come across as patronising, I promise it's not meant to.

                                  Farage clearly gave the impression that the reason that energy prices are so high is due to green levies. He stated that getting rid of net zero and green levies would bring bills down, he never mentioned anything else. And we all know that energy bills went up primarily because of the price of fossil fuels.

                                  Had we increased rather than decreasing the Net Zero transition rate in years past we would have saved billions and billions as a country.

                                  Expanding North Sea oil and even if it works fracking will not help. Oil and gas are sold on International markets, they will not improve our energy security and won't be greener than say the energy we pipe from abroad.

                                  And finally. That wasn't the point Tice made at all. He stated that reaching Net Zero would have no impact on climate change and stated categorically that the IPCC report stated that. It simply does not . . .because it isn't true. He was not being honest unless you think he's genuinely stupid . . .

                                    Re: NaG

                                    Posted by Mas on 25/6/2024, 19:39:44, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                                    I haven't taken it as patronising at all and it's a rare treat to debate without the normal childish insults.

                                    You getting an impression is totally different to the original claim that he lied!

                                    Nobody would dispute that markets dictate the majority price of oil, therefore energy. Since Brown introduced the CCL the price has been as high as $200 a barrel and as low as minus $x. Not a lot the UK govt can do about the bulk of the price but it can change the add on taxes.

                                    I can't see how relying on imports makes no difference to our energy security or that importing coal from Australia is greener. As we saw with the invasion of UKR & the supply issue through Nord Stream it was every country for itself and Germany suddenly forgot it's EU partners. I'd be genuinely interested to learn how you come to that conclusion.

                            Re: NaG

                            Posted by Well on 22/6/2024, 18:37:08, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                            Brexit will control our borders. ( it’s tripled )

                            Brexit will bring costs down on food etc.

                            350 million extra for the NHS.

                            Go on give us all a laugh and respond.


                              Re: NaG

                              Posted by Mas on 22/6/2024, 20:46:49, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                              Brave of you but to answer -

                              Brexit would control our borders, the Tories haven’t.

                              The entire world has been impacted by covid & UKR but if you want to blame it all on Brexit fair enough.

                              Nobody promised anything to the NHS but notwithstanding you might wish to see how much more than £350m per week is now being spent on the NHS.

                              Anything else you want to invent whilst trying to answer the question to MG?

                                Re: NaG

                                Posted by Nearly a Genius on 22/6/2024, 21:08:53, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                                We could send people crossing the Channel back to France before Brexit.

                                Why is the NHS in such a dire state if all this money is being spent on it?
                                Why can’t people see a dentist, or a GP?
                                Before Brexit, people could work in the EU if they found a suitable job. It’s much more difficult now.

                                Passport queues are longer.
                                There is no Brexit benefit.

                                  Re: NaG

                                  Posted by Mas on 22/6/2024, 23:11:44, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                                  We certainly could NAGS but Brexit made it easier.

                                  Total incompetence in how it’s run plus the many millions of extra users and an aging population.

                                  The fact of the matter is we’ve had the negatives of requiring work visas and slightly longer queueing but haven’t taken the many positives. Not sure it’s entirely accurate to blame Farage for the Tory failings to date or the Labour ones coming.

                                  Oh and if you don’t reply straight away I will assume it’s because you too have a life, unlike the halfwit attempting to be funny/clever/not a halfwit.

                                  Re: NaG

                                  Posted by Well on 22/6/2024, 20:51:12, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                                  2 hours for that. 😆

                                  No wonder he is a millionaire.

                                  Give him some more money.

                                    Re: NaG

                                    Posted by Mas on 22/6/2024, 22:55:16, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                                    🤷‍♂️

                                      Re: NaG

                                      Posted by Nearly a Genius on 22/6/2024, 23:08:43, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                                      Is that supposed to imply that you're not listening?

                                      Bury your head in the sand, then.

                                        Re: NaG

                                        Posted by Well on 22/6/2024, 23:20:07, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                                        Trigger is confused.

                                        He must be researching the Reform contract for answers but it takes him two hours.

                                        They really should do a picture format to help him out.

                              Re: NaG

                              Posted by Yep on 22/6/2024, 13:23:44, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                              It boils my spit listening to the shite spouted against Corbyn.

                              He offered a real change to been slaves to the markets and the corporations and the idiots decided a crook would be a better option.

                              “He would bankrupt the country” screamed the daily mong.

                              That went well.

                                Re: NaG

                                Posted by Just saying on 22/6/2024, 15:22:05, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                                Are you for real? He was / is a basket case.

                                  Re: NaG

                                  Posted by Yep on 22/6/2024, 16:02:42, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                                  If you posted anything different I’d be worried.

                                  The “basket case” you voted in worked a treat eh?

                                  Re: NaG

                                  Posted by MG on 22/6/2024, 13:55:11, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                                  Totally agree. Let's be honest though he was far from perfect but as I said repeatedly at the time he did offer something genuinely different.

                                  And he did believe in answering questions rather than giving soundbites which is what the media complain about but what they largely want and need.

                                  I still maintain that we would likely have been better off during COVID had he been there.

                                    Re: NaG

                                    Posted by Yep on 22/6/2024, 14:03:20, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                                    I cringe hearing idiots say “they are all alike”

                                    They don’t want different so I’d wish they’d shut the F@@@ up and stop moaning.

                                    130 billion estimated to have been squandered to fraud, corruption or stupidity since 2019 alone.

                                    The people get the government they deserve has never been more true.

                                      Re: NaG

                                      Posted by MG on 22/6/2024, 14:09:35, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                                      Very true.

                                      The people saying "they are all the same", it's largely lazy thinking. Like you say, when presented with something genuinely different they just don't get it.

                                      Sadly, too many, are happy to latch on to chancers like Farage and Johnson just because they are telling them what they want to hear.

                                        Re: NaG

                                        Posted by mmmm on 22/6/2024, 14:24:32, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                                        Absolutely. That is the modus operandi of Farage/Trump/Le Penn etc

                                          Re: NaG

                                          Posted by Can I ask? on 22/6/2024, 14:27:09, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                                          Why do you keep changing your posting name?

                                            Re: NaG

                                            Posted by mmmm on 22/6/2024, 14:30:55, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                                            You can ask anything. Please point out the posts on this thread are me (mmmm) with a different name. Cheers

                                              Re: NaG

                                              Posted by Can I ask? on 22/6/2024, 14:31:39, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                                              You've been replying to MG under mmmm and yep.
                                              Very odd.

                                                Re: NaG

                                                Posted by mmmm on 22/6/2024, 14:40:13, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                                                Wrong and I can assume you are not admin by that .

                                                  Re: NaG

                                                  Posted by Can I ask? on 22/6/2024, 14:51:24, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                                                  OK Mr.Glitter. if you say so.
                                                  🤣🤣🤣🤣

                                                    Re: NaG

                                                    Posted by mmmm on 22/6/2024, 14:56:27, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                                                    Mr Glitter? Oh deary me.

                                    Re: NaG

                                    Posted by Really? on 22/6/2024, 13:26:00, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                                    WHAT???????? Are you drunk?

                                      Re: NaG

                                      Posted by Yep on 22/6/2024, 13:27:43, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                                      What policies of his did you hate?

                                      Name one? I know you can’t but name just one?

                                      No doubt you voted for Boris Yeltsin though.

                                        Re: NaG

                                        Posted by The Questioner on 22/6/2024, 16:50:07, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                                        Reversing privatisation….but I have a few.

                                          Re: NaG

                                          Posted by Yep on 22/6/2024, 17:12:02, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                                          Privatisation is the biggest scam/con ever inflicted on this country by the master, Thatcher.

                                          A license for rich folk to get richer by robbing normal folk.

                                          Name any privatised service that has improved services or lowered cost?

                                          Next.

                                            Re: NaG

                                            Posted by The Questioner on 22/6/2024, 22:21:13, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                                            I know you are old enough to remember British Rail….

                                              Re: NaG

                                              Posted by Yep on 22/6/2024, 22:39:38, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                                              I am.

                                              Go outside of the Home Counties and most would love it back.

                                              Go up north and they’d love the steam engines back.

                                              You can not defend privatisation at any level. It was a scam.

                                              You got me thinking though back to the 80s when I worked in London for a year. I’m sure I used to get a seat most days but you have no hope now or so I’m told.

                                              Christ I preferred life back then or is that old git talk, hell knows.

                                                ti

                                                Posted by The Questioner on 23/6/2024, 9:21:45, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                                                Haha …I think definitely a bit of nostalgia…. Summers were hotter , you could play outside without getting accosted by some weirdo , you could leave your windows & doors open etc.
                                                However the reality is that so much of our public owned enterprises were a total mess.They were continually being crippled by strikes, run by people who couldn’t give a shit as were never going to lose there jobs which fed all the way down to those on the front line.

                                                It’s interesting that we haven’t heard much from mouthy Mickey now Labour are about to come to power……I wonder why that is…😂😂

                              Re: NaG

                              Posted by crumpsall on 22/6/2024, 10:37:10, in reply to "NaG"

                              Why pick out NaG when many people replied on that thread (and you rather sadly tried to 'talk down' to them as if you were the only one to understand nuance, which clearly you aren't and don't)?

                                Re: NaG

                                Posted by mmmm on 22/6/2024, 10:42:03, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                                I'm talking to NaG rather than a poster such as yourself. It's just a preference. Largely a preference for a decent, mature response. Similarly I would seek a response from Godders on a subject or Madpig. No offence

                                  Re: NaG

                                  Posted by crumpsall on 22/6/2024, 10:44:37, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                                  I can't ever imagine being offended by a poster such as you. Or indeed anyone on here.

                                  I've never respected snides.

                                    Re: NaG

                                    Posted by mmmm on 22/6/2024, 10:51:39, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                                    Point proven. No offence.

                                      Re: NaG

                                      Posted by crumpsall on 22/6/2024, 10:56:50, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                                      Not sure how you arrive at that conclusion, but your loss.

                                      As it happens I agree with much of what you have said about Putin, NATO and indeed parts - parts - of what Farage said, as most intelligent observers would. Ignores a huge amount of other historical and current factors, of course, but some people's ability to assimilate nuance is clearly limited.

                                      Your manner, however, is another thing altogether.

                                        Re: NaG

                                        Posted by Bellend spotter on 22/6/2024, 13:21:11, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                                        Why are you trying to sound like a university lecturer? And yes I do understand what the words mean. Just stop trying so hard.

                                          Re: NaG

                                          Posted by Chlamydia on 22/6/2024, 13:58:49, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                                          He's trying to teach the thicko likes of you.

                                          Re: NaG

                                          Posted by The Questioner on 22/6/2024, 11:33:22, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                                          I knew you would - bloody Commie….😂

                                            Re: NaG

                                            Posted by crumpsall on 22/6/2024, 11:37:44, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                                            🤣🤣🤣

                                            Re: NaG

                                            Posted by Oz Hat on 22/6/2024, 11:06:09, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                                            This thread is kind of why I don't bother here anymore. A poster makes a post then another poster accuses them of something and then goes and acts just like the the thing they accused the other one of. Board needs a 'reboot'.

                                              Re: NaG

                                              Posted by crumpsall on 22/6/2024, 11:12:29, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                                              Fair point. Probs wrong to react here but having seen the way that poster replied to others, I did. Clearly aiming for a response, and I do wonder* why NaG is so frequently targeted.

                                              *I have a fair idea, of course

                                              The board is certainly a sad old place at times, that's for sure. But it's only a silly message board, and it can be fun and informative at times too.

                                                Re: NaG

                                                Posted by Just saying on 22/6/2024, 11:28:50, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                                                Tbf NaG can come across quite nasty & all superior at times, may just be her posting manner but it does rub many up the wrong way.

                                                  Re: NaG

                                                  Posted by Plus on 22/6/2024, 12:50:40, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                                                  1

                                                    Re: NaG

                                                    Posted by crumpsall on 22/6/2024, 11:37:23, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                                                    Nasty? I don't see that at all. Get what you perceive as 'superiority' as yep, NaG reacts to idiocy at times - so do I, and others. Not unpleasantly like this faceless 'mmmm' character, though.

                                                    But it's clear to see that NaG is the target for some pretty foul stuff (not, for clarity, in this instance of course). And I don't like bullies, or snides.

                                                      Re: NaG

                                                      Posted by mmmm on 22/6/2024, 11:45:41, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                                                      Whilst you act like a bully and a snide. You're also faceless by the way, odd comment

                                                        Re: NaG

                                                        Posted by crumpsall on 22/6/2024, 11:51:54, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                                                        Faceless? Hardly.

                                                        And I don't think I've ever responded to decent, intelligent posters the way you have. Or descended to your level of snidiness.


                                                          Re: NaG

                                                          Posted by pingu on 22/6/2024, 11:47:27, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                                                          hardly faceless, hes one of the most known fans at luton😭.

                                                            Re: NaG

                                                            Posted by mmmm on 22/6/2024, 11:53:22, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                                                            He's faceless to me as I am to him and as a Town fan since 79 he's faceless to those I go to games with. If you're keen on everyone knowing each other and putting faces to names there's a way to do that.

                                                              Re: NaG

                                                              Posted by pingu on 22/6/2024, 12:00:40, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                                                              you want me to throw a party for you?

                                                                Re: NaG

                                                                Posted by mmmm on 22/6/2024, 12:20:01, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                                                                a typical response from you Pingu which is why you are one of the few on here I have time for. Oh, hang on , the drunk obsessive has popped up below to lend his wisdom to the thread.....

                                                                  Re: NaG

                                                                  Posted by Pisshead Spotter on 22/6/2024, 12:26:00, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                                                                  Aah, bless. Getting all wound up and angry again?

                                                                  Cue incoming incoherent rant from the boards resident pisshead.

                                                                    Re: NaG

                                                                    Posted by pingu on 22/6/2024, 12:23:21, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                                                                    😭🧡

                                                                    never too high, never too low.

                                                          Re: NaG

                                                          Posted by The Questioner on 22/6/2024, 11:34:59, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                                                          Misguided (just joking NAG) but not nasty imo and experience.

                                                            Re: NaG

                                                            Posted by pingu on 22/6/2024, 11:30:59, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                                                            maybe whoever gets rubbed up the wrong way needs to chill, maybe theyve got the problem.

                                                              Re: NaG

                                                              Posted by Just saying on 22/6/2024, 11:33:30, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                                                              Why? Because of her gender? I thought we lived in a society where all should be treated equal?

                                                                Re: NaG

                                                                Posted by pingu on 22/6/2024, 11:38:45, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                                                                what?!?😭😭😭

                                                              Re: NaG

                                                              Posted by mmmm on 22/6/2024, 11:30:57, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                                                              I've argued with NaG on a few things . She's OK though. Compared to some many others on here she's actually a Saint.

                                                                Re: NaG

                                                                Posted by Nearly a Genius on 22/6/2024, 13:12:34, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                                                                Thank you.

                                                Re: NaG

                                                Posted by The Questioner on 22/6/2024, 10:24:39, in reply to "NaG"

                                                Do you not think that they may also be wrong…..you don’t have to agree with everything that people in your political party say.
                                                I suspect the majority of the Labour Party disagrees with him/her.

                                                  Re: NaG

                                                  Posted by mmmm on 22/6/2024, 11:28:03, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                                                  Yes that's possible and that's why I was asking NaG. A labour supporter with history on here of decent responses.

                                                    Re: NaG

                                                    Posted by The Questioner on 22/6/2024, 10:33:37, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                                                    He cites an article penned by the Russian leader ahead of the invasion of Ukraine, which only mentions Nato in one paragraph of the 7,000-word essay that instead focused on "ethnic nationalism".
                                                    Wallace then contextualises his comments further by highlighting that only 6% of the Russian border has a Nato country on it and that it is a "defensive alliance" as it "doesn't go around invading people like president Putin”.

                                                      Re: NaG

                                                      Posted by mmmm on 22/6/2024, 10:50:55, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                                                      Putin is not remotely concerned with NATO. They are toothless when dealing with Russia or ANY major power and he knows it.
                                                      He's concerned about the EU / USA and democracy and as a dictator he has every right to be. Any non powerful, non nuclear country with a dictator hasn't fared too well over the last 40 years. This is all that Farage and others are saying. Putin is using NATO, possible EU expansion as an excuse. It certainly doesn't make Putin 'right' in his actions but it does make Farage right in his comments.

                                                        Re: NaG

                                                        Posted by HH on 22/6/2024, 12:25:35, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                                                        But Farage said the west provoked them.

                                                        That's not provocation, is it? There was no deliberate attempt by the West to wind up Putin anymore that it could be said the West provoked Hitler.

                                                          Re: NaG

                                                          Posted by mmmm on 22/6/2024, 12:44:34, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                                                          NATO used to be referred to as the Western Alliance. He's not completely off the mark to use the term 'West' interchangeably with NATO. It's not accurate though.

                                                          He's saying quite clearly that NATO expansion and the threat of EU expansion is what has provoked Putin. If you understand Putin's ideology for Russia it's not hard to appreciate why that would be the case. He has dressed it up differently of course as though he is saving Russian's in Ukraine from right wing extremism who wish to be with Russia. That's nonsense of course. . Farage thinks that if NATO had not courted expansion East then the Ukraine war would not have happened. All the leaders of the political parties in the UK don't openly disagree with this which is why the likes of Starmer and Sunak are misrepresenting what Farage has said and feeding it back to the public as "Farage is justifying Putins actions in invading a sovereign country". He has NEVER said that and has said that Putin is an aggressor and is wrong to invade Ukraine. You can see from this thread how difficult many people find it to see this preferring to take lazy sound bites that demonise Farage. I don't like much about Farage but on this he is on the money.

                                                            Re: NaG

                                                            Posted by Really? on 22/6/2024, 12:52:00, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                                                            You really don't have a scooby do you? You clearly only have a base line knowledge of the conflict but come on here as if you are a mix of Kissinger/Blair/Gorbachev.

                                                            Leave this shit to the adults.

                                                              Re: NaG

                                                              Posted by mmmm on 22/6/2024, 13:05:24, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                                                              Now Putin would definitely blame Gorbachev for many many things that are wrong in Russia because of his cosying up to the West . As a matter of interest how would you link Blair to anything that I have said?.............go on , give us a laugh.

                                                              Re: NaG

                                                              Posted by HH on 22/6/2024, 12:46:40, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                                                              I disagree. To me his comments are somehow saying the West are responsible or played a part.

                                                              Whereas actually it just gives cover to Putin and proves a partial excuse for him trying to rebuild the Soviet Union and because he was losing influence over Ukrainian politics.

                                                                Re: NaG

                                                                Posted by mmmm on 22/6/2024, 12:57:43, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                                                                To provoke something then yes you play a part but to say responsible (which he never has) would be wrong.

                                                                Your second sentence is entirely a consequence of this provocation (which is what Farage is saying) and all the excuse Putin needed to gain support within his own country. He has managed to garner just (but only just) enough support and the longer the war goes on the more this will fade.

                                                                I wouldn't be surprised at all if he is already looking for a way out. The way for NATO to undo what Farage says was their provocation is to state clearly that Ukraine will not be asked to join NATO. That won't happen of course as the USA will not allow that. For them the communist bogeyman is as real today as it ever was. Despite the USA being the agent provocateur of most of the world's conflicts. THAT is another discussion however.

                                                                  Re: NaG

                                                                  Posted by HH on 22/6/2024, 13:05:09, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                                                                  Can't say I agree but I appreciate your position.

                                                                  The illogical part of Farage and Putin's position is that if we provoked by expanding NATO, Putin's invasion in Ukraine has justified that expansion and consequently seen it grown to include Finland and Sweden, where it probably wouldn't have done so pre 2022.

                                                                    Re: NaG

                                                                    Posted by mmmm on 22/6/2024, 13:10:06, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                                                                    Totally agree. Putin is ideology driven and his invasion of Ukraine was never going to work out in his favour. The scariest part of all of this for the world outside of Ukraine (who have the scariest situation obvs) is that if Putin isn't given a way out his comment of there being no need for a world without Russia you just hope he means Russia as it is now.......rather than with big chunks of Ukraine in it..

                                                            Re: NaG

                                                            Posted by Wat Tyler on 22/6/2024, 11:18:01, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                                                            “The simple fact is that Putin's actions are a direct response to NATO provocation.”

                                                            But

                                                            “Putin is not remotely concerned with NATO. “

                                                            Seems like it’s not such a simple fact after all.

                                                              Re: NaG

                                                              Posted by mmmm on 22/6/2024, 11:26:09, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                                                              Keep up.

                                                              NATO expansion in EU = probable EU expansion.

                                                              Your arguing with 'The Questioner' below is similar. You need to read the feed, follow the thread before commenting out of context. This is how the political parties debate these days and the media react. Sound bites out of context. Farage isn't a Putin 'apologist' for example but he tries to understand what is motivating the dictator to maybe prevent further illegal actions or find a solution to the one in Ukraine.

                                                                Re: NaG

                                                                Posted by Wat Tyler on 22/6/2024, 12:15:17, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                                                                I quoted your initial reply to the feed which stated it was a simple fact. I think you need to both read the feed, follow the thread and more importantly not make sweeping statements which you yourself go on to prove not to be true

                                                                Nothing taken out of context. Just your words contradicting yourself. Thats how politicians work - they get this sort of thing pointed out to them then claim they were taken “out of context”.

                                                                So is it a “simple fact” or is it more complicated than that?

                                                                  Re: NaG

                                                                  Posted by mmmm on 22/6/2024, 12:20:56, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                                                                  I can't help you anymore than The Questioner could.

                                                                    Re: NaG

                                                                    Posted by Wat Tyler on 22/6/2024, 12:23:32, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                                                                    What a surprise.

                                                                      Re: NaG

                                                                      Posted by mmmm on 22/6/2024, 12:34:10, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                                                                      When you don't read and understand, when you don't use context or use things out of context, when you misquote , when you repeat yourself using different words, you can't be helped to understand anything. It's a modern political problem that you've latched on to and been brainwashed by an agenda driven media.

                                                                        Re: NaG

                                                                        Posted by Wat Tyler on 22/6/2024, 13:27:30, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                                                                        Where have I misquoted or used different words?

                                                                        Show me.

                                                                        What additional context is needed for your glib “The simple fact is that Putin's actions are a direct response to NATO provocation?”

                                                                        If anything, it’s the context (something you omitted in your initial reply) that proves it’s anything but a “simple fact”.

                                                                  Re: NaG

                                                                  Posted by Bootin on 22/6/2024, 11:34:02, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                                                                  My simplistic view, for what it is worth!!
                                                                  I remember the USA getting in a dither re Cuba and the stupidity that then ensued. So I can understand the feelings that Putin has. (No excuse for a war though.)

                                                                Re: NaG

                                                                Posted by Nearly a Genius on 22/6/2024, 10:59:59, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                                                                AS Farage has been wrong about everything else, especially the EU and Brexit, it's not surprising that people are sceptical about his irrelevant bletherings.

                                                                  Re: NaG

                                                                  Posted by mmmm on 22/6/2024, 11:29:35, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                                                                  Thanks for the response NaG. I don't disagree with you on Farage getting things wrong like the EU exit. Was just interested on the way this particular issue was being treated. Thanks anyway.

                                                                    Re: NaG

                                                                    Posted by Nearly a Genius on 22/6/2024, 12:48:58, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                                                                    👍

                                                                      Re: NaG

                                                                      Posted by Pisshead spotter on 22/6/2024, 11:59:15, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                                                                      On it early today mmmm? You'll be a dribbling mess by 4pm.

                                                                      And stop trying to befriend NAG, Madpig etc. It's embarrassing and they clearly think you are a total loser.

                                                                        Re: NaG

                                                                        Posted by Yep on 22/6/2024, 13:12:47, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                                                                        And going from his posts about a posters teenager daughter last night, he's clearly a paedophile to boot. No wonder he's too scared to make himself known away from this messageboard.

                                                                          Re: NaG

                                                                          Posted by Yep on 22/6/2024, 13:40:47, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                                                                          At least he is not scared enough to use another posters name.

                                                                          Gutless mong.

                                                                            Re: NaG

                                                                            Posted by Yep on 22/6/2024, 13:44:53, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                                                                            Why doesn't he do what others and bbb have suggested then and go and introduce himself in person? Save us all having to read mmmm's weird posts about bbb and his teenage girl?

                                                                              Re: NaG

                                                                              Posted by Yep on 22/6/2024, 13:49:15, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                                                                              Maybe if you grow a pair of balls yourself then you can start preaching coward.

                                                                                Re: NaG

                                                                                Posted by Yep on 22/6/2024, 14:07:12, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                                                                                You're a paedophile mmmm. Go and see bbb or stop with your cowardly behaviour please. We don't need to read about it on here.

                                                                            Re: NaG

                                                                            Posted by mmmm on 22/6/2024, 13:24:26, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                                                                            Where's that then? I'm guessing it's something you've said and then because you lack any kind of intelligence to debate with me you then assign to my user name. Well done you !

                                                                              Re: NaG

                                                                              Posted by Pisshead Spotter on 22/6/2024, 13:36:13, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                                                                              It's a nice Summers day but you want to spend it on here getting involved in infantile arguments.

                                                                              It is funny though, seeing you get more wound up and angrier as the day goes on.

                                                                                Re: NaG

                                                                                Posted by mmmm on 22/6/2024, 14:58:24, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                                                                                It's so obvious which posting names are you.......you need to vary your style.

                                                                                  Re: NaG

                                                                                  Posted by Yep. on 22/6/2024, 13:42:49, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                                                                                  A paedophile like mmmm will eventually get caught out. When he does, it will sober him up very quickly I'm sure.

                                                                                    Re: NaG

                                                                                    Posted by mmmm on 22/6/2024, 14:29:20, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                                                                                    Paedophile. Drunk. Come on multi name troll you can do better than this surely? Admin, I'm assuming Pisshead spotter / Yep imposter are the same fool? I'm sure he'll respond to say "not so" and bring another name in..........quelle surprise

                                                                                      Re: NaG

                                                                                      Posted by Yep on 22/6/2024, 14:38:42, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                                                                                      Not the same person but seem to have your number.

                                                                                        Re: NaG

                                                                                        Posted by mmmm on 22/6/2024, 14:42:34, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                                                                                        Oh I see!!! Welcome to the 'chat' bbb
                                                                                        This is largely a discussion about Farage and Putin. Appreciate you will be just scanning for opps to have a go however.

                                                                                          Re: NaG

                                                                                          Posted by Yep on 22/6/2024, 14:52:14, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                                                                                          Try again Mr.Saville

                                                                                            Re: NaG

                                                                                            Posted by mmmm on 22/6/2024, 14:57:18, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                                                                                            I thought it was Mr Glitter? You can't even keep up with your own guff

                                                                                              Re: NaG

                                                                                              Posted by Give it a rest on 22/6/2024, 15:07:23, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                                                                                              Rolf.

                                                                                                Re: NaG

                                                                                                Posted by mmmm on 22/6/2024, 15:12:07, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                                                                                                Why not just call me Gary Rolf-Saville . It would save you making up so many posting names. Now go do something constructive eh? The interesting part of this thread has been hijacked by you so job done. Well done.

                                                                                                  Re: NaG

                                                                                                  Posted by mmmm on 22/6/2024, 15:19:59, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                                                                                                  Well done.

                                                                                                    Re: NaG

                                                                                                    Posted by IRONY METER on 22/6/2024, 15:18:17, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                                                                                                    Nope, it's bust again.

                                                                                                      Re: NaG

                                                                                                      Posted by mmmm on 22/6/2024, 15:20:24, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                                                                                                      Well done

                                                                                              Re: NaG

                                                                                              Posted by Pisshead Spotter on 22/6/2024, 14:47:34, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                                                                                              Yeah, we get it. You think Putin invaded Ukraine because of Nato enlargement and you agree with Farage.

                                                                                              Do you have to post it multiple times though, you tedious bore.

                                                                                              And keep saying you agree with Farage on just about everything but won't vote for him, doesn't wash either

                                                                                                Re: NaG

                                                                                                Posted by mmmm on 22/6/2024, 14:49:30, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                                                                                  Re: NaG

                                                                                  Posted by mmmm on 22/6/2024, 12:21:41, in reply to "Re: NaG"

                                                                                  Stop it I'll cry.

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