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    Southgate off the hook

    Posted by attertap on 17/6/2024, 6:04:37

    That imbercile has taken his proverbial phone off the hook once again.It's there for all to see but will he change anything and give us a chance of winning the Euros? Absolutely not. I'm getting really old and want to see us win something in my lifetime. Kane and Foden played 90 mins WTF?? Stating the obvious I know but it is really pissing me off. His fear of losing is killing us.

      Re: Southgate off the hook

      Posted by Hatsworth on 17/6/2024, 13:26:40, in reply to "Southgate off the hook"

      Im in the minority that Southgate has done ok given the sorry state that we were in following all those dreadful tournaments for the best part of 30 years. It was always going to be complex to change the mindset of the team and to do it it means some tactics that some people might not like. But it is a results game and we got the result, again and weve been getting through groups and early knock out games better (so far) than ever before.

      However, the Alexander Arnold thing is absolutely mind boggling. The only logic I could see as that it was all a big ruse to go back to 3 at the back with walker inside and a-a as the right wing back. i think that might work as his glaringly obvious defensive frailties (ogbene skinned him alive, for example) would have speedy cover. It still may be of course, get to a game that matters like a quarter final and switch it round and catch the opposition off guard, but if he did that now it would be almost as mental as playing him in midfield. But hes doing the latter, so why not the former. Crazy.

        Re: Southgate off the hook

        Posted by Ches Fordroad on 17/6/2024, 13:52:13, in reply to "Re: Southgate off the hook"

        There was an interesting piece this morning in The Athletic, broadly saying that the good start followed by fading in matches is far from a current thing, indeed it's been an issue since at least as far back as 2002.

          Re: Southgate off the hook

          Posted by Ramridge Raider on 17/6/2024, 14:13:19, in reply to "Re: Southgate off the hook"

          I remember the opening game in 96 Euros v the Swiss. Decent start, went 1-0 up and then faded. The Swiss equalised near the end.

          At least we held on for the 3 points last night!

        Re: Southgate off the hook

        Posted by Nearly a Genius on 17/6/2024, 9:41:01, in reply to "Southgate off the hook"

        Sorry to nit-pick, but if you're "getting really old", wouldn't you remember winning the World Cup?

        Re: Southgate off the hook

        Posted by Brad Garlinghouse on 17/6/2024, 9:15:07, in reply to "Southgate off the hook"

        Crying out for a Ross Barkley.The manager is a boring buffoon.

          Re: Southgate off the hook

          Posted by Lord Fungusbottom on 17/6/2024, 8:42:45, in reply to "Southgate off the hook"

          Probably the most boring game so far in the tournament. With the players England has thats a real achievement.

            Re: Southgate off the hook

            Posted by The Outsider on 17/6/2024, 10:30:11, in reply to "Re: Southgate off the hook"

            https://members.boardhost.com/lutonoutlaws/msg/1718612956.html

              Re: Southgate off the hook

              Posted by MG on 17/6/2024, 9:42:17, in reply to "Re: Southgate off the hook"

              Maybe the players, with a couple of exceptions of course, really aren't that good at International level?

                Re: Southgate off the hook

                Posted by Ramridge Raider on 17/6/2024, 10:00:05, in reply to "Re: Southgate off the hook"

                I think you may be right there. We have a lot of decent players but a most are overrated (Bellingham & Kane excepted)

                We have a chance in the tournament alongside six or seven other teams but we are nowhere near as good as the media would have us believe.

                  Re: Southgate off the hook

                  Posted by Music Critic on 17/6/2024, 10:08:12, in reply to "Re: Southgate off the hook"

                  I think Foden would walk into most other sides in this tournament and those nations would build a team/system around him. England have a long history in mis-using brilliant players

                  You're not a regular in that City side under someone as ruthless as Guardiola if you are not top, top quality. Trouble is his best position is central but Southgate thought playing TAA in midfield and pushing Foden out wide, where he is nowhere near as effective, was a good idea

                  Playing 2 defensive midfielders against the lesser teams is a poor, ultra-conservative tactic

                    Re: Southgate off the hook

                    Posted by HH on 17/6/2024, 11:23:08, in reply to "Re: Southgate off the hook"

                    If Foden plays centrally, where does that leave Bellingham? I wouldn't displace him from his role to put Foden in there.

                      Re: Southgate off the hook

                      Posted by Music Critic on 17/6/2024, 11:26:47, in reply to "Re: Southgate off the hook"

                      Rice, Bellingham, Foden as a three

                      Rice as CDM, Bellingham box-to-box, Foden as No 10. Why can't they play together?

                      We're too careful with 2 defensive midfielders. Too conservative

                        Re: Southgate off the hook

                        Posted by HH on 17/6/2024, 11:33:21, in reply to "Re: Southgate off the hook"

                        Yeah, that works. Gordon or Palmer on the left. It's certainly a lot more simple and easier than shoehorning a right back into the middle.

                        I'm sure it was Joey D who used to post on here Shankley's famous 'football is a simple game complicated by idiots' quote. Sees rather apt considering the pig's ear Southgate is making of it all.

                        I think Southgate will keep it as it is for Denmark with Shaw in for Trippier. Hopefully with a proper left back behind him, potentially overlapping etc, that will help Foden.

                          Re: Southgate off the hook

                          Posted by Notorious D on 17/6/2024, 11:39:22, in reply to "Re: Southgate off the hook"

                          Too early for Shaw to start I think, but I like the sentiment.

                          My team prior to euros was a midfield of rice (holding), Bellingham and foden slightly ahead,(when in possession), but drop into a 3 out of possession. Gordon and Saka on the flanks to provide direct running and pace, to penetrate the opposition, as they will be drawn towards the space that Foden, Bellingham and Kane occupy.

                          Southgate is stifling us, and I wont be sad to see the back of him.

                            Re: Southgate off the hook

                            Posted by Music Critic on 17/6/2024, 11:37:51, in reply to "Re: Southgate off the hook"

                            Gordon or Palmer on the left.

                            Agreed. Or Eze although I'm not sure if he's better on the right

                            All that talent at his disposal (unlike others I do think we have some very good players especially in attacking areas) and he's playing players out of position. Bonkers

                            Re: Southgate off the hook

                            Posted by Music Critic on 17/6/2024, 11:31:57, in reply to "Re: Southgate off the hook"

                            Acknowledging that, against the very, very best sides, we may have to play 2 CDMs and Foden would then be sacrificed - better that (and bring him on in place of Bellingham at some point if necessary) than starting but being pushed out wide where he is far less effective

                              Re: Southgate off the hook

                              Posted by Notorious D on 17/6/2024, 11:31:18, in reply to "Re: Southgate off the hook"

                              +1. Bellingham has the athleticism to play box to box. Ultimately, Southgate is stifling us and has done for a while; I wont be sad to see the back of him.

                              I think hell struggle to get a job at premier league level, when his tenure with England finishes.

                                Re: Southgate off the hook

                                Posted by Music Critic on 17/6/2024, 11:34:26, in reply to "Re: Southgate off the hook"

                                Like I said to HH earlier it's a weird one with Southgate. His tournament record is good (although, again, his conservatism and caution cost us the Euro 2020 Final) but I'm beginning to wonder if our record is decent despite Southgate and not because of him

                                  Re: Southgate off the hook

                                  Posted by Notorious D on 17/6/2024, 11:44:42, in reply to "Re: Southgate off the hook"

                                  Ive been anti Southgate since the Italy final. Hes had reasonable success in terms of uniting the country and getting us progressing in an upward trajectory after the dark days of 2007 - 2016; although weve now stagnated.

                                  Hes not learnt his lessons from the Croatia 2018 semi final and Italy 2021. We score early and then retreat when the opposition go through the gears. Only an idiot deploys the same unsuccessful methods, and expects different outcomes.

                                  Whilst admittedly some of the squad is overhyped (as usual), I think we have enough talent to win a major tournament, with a good, progressive manager.

                                    Re: Southgate off the hook

                                    Posted by Ramridge Raider on 17/6/2024, 12:06:21, in reply to "Re: Southgate off the hook"

                                    I said before the tournament that the use of substitutes will be critical, particularly as we have such a strong bench.

                                    Southgate's subs last night were too late as we had lost any momentum and very conservative. His subs did not alter the structure or the dynamics of the game.

                                    Southgate is a decent bloke and a great man manager but doesn't seem to have the tactical nous to adapt/evolve during a game. Too often he is outcoached and outthought by the opposition coach.

                                    Was hoping that this tournament would be different but judging by last night, he is still passive and reactive in his game management. That will cost us further in the tournament.

                                      Re: Southgate off the hook

                                      Posted by Notorious D on 17/6/2024, 13:20:30, in reply to "Re: Southgate off the hook"

                                      +1. Out of his depth and has taken us as far as he can.

                                      Re: Southgate off the hook

                                      Posted by HH on 17/6/2024, 11:55:40, in reply to "Re: Southgate off the hook"

                                      For me, the World Cup the other year was when my opinion started to change. We only beat Iran, Wales and Senegal at that tournament. And as you've said, it's been similar failings ever since.

                              Re: Southgate off the hook

                              Posted by Ramridge Raider on 17/6/2024, 10:45:23, in reply to "Re: Southgate off the hook"

                              Fair points but I do question if Foden is as good as he is made out to be. At times, particularly in the central area he seems a bit lightweight and struggles to shrug off challenges from more physical players.

                              Bellingham has the technique, speed and strength to ride challenges and get past players. Going back, Gascoigne was similar, very strong and used his physicality to muscle past players. Foden seems to really struggle against fast, physical opponents.

                              Undoubtedly, he's a talent but not sure he 'would get in any team in the world'. Appreciate how well he did for City, but you have to caveat it with the amount of possession they have and how far upfield that allows him to play.

                              If anything, he reminds me of Joe Cole. Wonderful talent but never really fulfilled his early potential.

                              I really hope I'm wrong and he proves to be world class in this tournament but I can't really see it.

                                Re: Southgate off the hook

                                Posted by Music Critic on 17/6/2024, 11:20:12, in reply to "Re: Southgate off the hook"

                                To clarify I said he'd walk into most sides in this tournament... not "any team in the world"

                                However, he holds down a regular spot in the best club side on the planet (or, at least, in the top 3) playing for one of the best managers on the planet. Playing in the Champions League, which is arguably better quality than international tournaments especially when it gets to the knock out stages. And, where does he play most games for City? Central midfield. We struggle to create recently and he has technique, vision and imagination that a lot of players just don't have. Bellingham is a different type of player so comparing the 2 is, for me, pointless

                                I don't think, with England, the issue is Foden's ability

                                  Re: Southgate off the hook

                                  Posted by Ramridge Raider on 17/6/2024, 11:42:14, in reply to "Re: Southgate off the hook"

                                  I don't necessarily disagree about trying him and Bellingham in the centre together.

                                  I just have my reservations that he is not strong enough in a central role. Too often he seems to get outmuscled off the ball, particularly in tight, congested areas.

                                  Last night, he was allowed the freedom to roam whilst Saka stated wide. He didn't really affect the game at all from a central position.

                                  For us to win this thing, he is one of the players that needs to step up to world class level.

                                    Re: Southgate off the hook

                                    Posted by Notorious D on 17/6/2024, 11:47:10, in reply to "Re: Southgate off the hook"

                                    Whilst I take your points, and agree that he has been very disappointing for England so far; he had played the number 10 position for City regularly this season, and won player of the year.

                                    To me, this demonstrates a complete failure of the management/coaching staff to get the best out of our players.

                                    Re: Southgate off the hook

                                    Posted by HH on 17/6/2024, 11:25:30, in reply to "Re: Southgate off the hook"

                                    So Foden alongside Rice, but not as deep?

                                      Re: Southgate off the hook

                                      Posted by Music Critic on 17/6/2024, 11:27:31, in reply to "Re: Southgate off the hook"

                                      Nope. See above

                          Re: Southgate off the hook

                          Posted by Same old on 17/6/2024, 8:26:20, in reply to "Southgate off the hook"

                          Passionless garbage last night but I don't doubt we'll muddle along to the quarters.
                          If only we had someone to light a fire under these lads,they could be frighteningly impressive.

                            Re: Southgate off the hook

                            Posted by Bucket Hat on 17/6/2024, 8:22:19, in reply to "Southgate off the hook"

                            Game of opinions, Kane held the ball up well and won numerous free kicks in the last 15-20 minutes which eased the pressure on our defence, if hed been taken off we wouldnt have had that.

                              Re: Southgate off the hook

                              Posted by Hatter66 on 17/6/2024, 7:29:50, in reply to "Southgate off the hook"

                              Win every game 1.0 you win the thing....better than shouting your mouth off & getting spanked 5.1....

                                Re: Southgate off the hook

                                Posted by James on 17/6/2024, 6:40:10, in reply to "Southgate off the hook"

                                His fear of playing good football you mean

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