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    Forest and Everton

    Posted by Madpig on 29/2/2024, 7:21:09

    Forest's hearing scheduled for March 7th.
    Everton also face fresh charges.

      Not interested

      Posted by Trft on 29/2/2024, 9:48:52, in reply to "Forest and Everton"

      we look after ourselves and do our job

      charge .

        Re: Forest and Everton

        Posted by It's going to be close on 29/2/2024, 8:17:19, in reply to "Forest and Everton"

        Theres no way they can give them a points deduction and have the appeal process all wrapped up by May to avoid a shitshow. My money is on a fine and making the whole scenario even more of a farce.

        Either way we have to do it ourselves and not rely on any potential deductions.

          Re: Forest and Everton

          Posted by Rory on 29/2/2024, 17:46:40, in reply to "Re: Forest and Everton"

          Season doesn't officially finish until the completion of the AGM not last game.

            Re: Forest and Everton

            Posted by Farhat on 29/2/2024, 16:55:56, in reply to "Re: Forest and Everton"

            The rules state ONLY a points deduction is appropriate. All Premier clubs signed up to this rule.

              Re: Forest and Everton

              Posted by High Town Hatter on 29/2/2024, 10:29:23, in reply to "Re: Forest and Everton"

              Am I missing something here ? Surely, having been docked six points for the initial offence (Everton), if they are then found guilty of a second similar or even worse offence the punishment must be at least another six points but potentially more ?

              I don't see, even allowing for the complexities of how the premier league operates, they can let them off with a fine and if they do, how is that maintaining the integrity of the league, which they are constantly banging on about ?

                Re: Forest and Everton

                Posted by MG on 29/2/2024, 10:38:21, in reply to "Re: Forest and Everton"

                I'd agree though there is some merit in the argument about double jeopardy. Two of the three years involved in this next set of charges they have already received some kind of punishment for. I'm guessing at 3 points but we know they just make it up as they go along which is what causes half the problems.

                  Re: Forest and Everton

                  Posted by ELH on 29/2/2024, 10:37:00, in reply to "Re: Forest and Everton"

                  I don't think they will be let off with a fine as the appeal decision said only a points deduction is appropriate.

                  However, there's no guarantee it will be as much as 6 again. If their overspend is less in the 2nd period (which overlaps with the first) that could be considered a mitigating factor as they have taken some action to reduce the losses (albeit not enough). I expect also that the overall size of the excess losses above the limit will be considered when deciding how many points to deduct from both Everton and Forest.

                    Re: Forest and Everton

                    Posted by Northants Hatter on 29/2/2024, 12:43:37, in reply to "Re: Forest and Everton"

                    Forest, in particular, may well be in line for maybe 6 (since the Everton appeal verdict talked about ‘following similar penalties’ Everton’s does look like a precedent).
                    Presumably the additional charge Everton face will have to be treated on its own merits, rather than be considered as part of the previous failure to stick to the rules.
                    However it turns out, the EPL seem to have got themselves in a right tangle over this…

                      Re: Forest and Everton

                      Posted by Music Critic on 29/2/2024, 11:38:24, in reply to "Re: Forest and Everton"

                      I think Forest's attitude to the whole thing will be taken into account too

                      Their arrogance towards this could be their undoing

                        Re: Forest and Everton

                        Posted by ELH on 29/2/2024, 11:48:37, in reply to "Re: Forest and Everton"

                        Let's hope so, but the last commission seemed very reluctant to be overly critical of Everton, avoiding calling them dishonest. And then the appeal toned it down even more by overturned that they "failed to act in utmost good faith". So unless there's a really strong case about Forest's attitude to FFP I think they will be cautious and avoid saying anything that is likely to be challenged in an appeal.

                          Re: Forest and Everton

                          Posted by Music Critic on 29/2/2024, 12:57:12, in reply to "Re: Forest and Everton"

                          Everton appear incompetent but, at least, a little contrite even if it's just for appearances

                          Forest appear to have taken the 'shrug-shoulders-and-fukk-you' route

                          Re: Forest and Everton

                          Posted by Sandgrounder on 29/2/2024, 11:46:38, in reply to "Re: Forest and Everton"

                          Based on the written reasons given by the appeal panel, I would expect 8 points to be the absolute maximum Forest will get.

                            Re: Forest and Everton

                            Posted by Music Critic on 29/2/2024, 12:59:52, in reply to "Re: Forest and Everton"

                            It's very strange logic from the appeal panel. That cheating PSR is worse than going into admin (which can also be construed as cheating but could also happen through a series of 'honest mistakes' and bad events)

                              Re: Forest and Everton

                              Posted by Sandgrounder on 29/2/2024, 14:17:54, in reply to "Re: Forest and Everton"

                              It’s a shame they didn’t include our 30 points in the ‘available benchmarks’!

                                Re: Forest and Everton

                                Posted by Music Critic on 29/2/2024, 15:24:04, in reply to "Re: Forest and Everton"

                                Ha! INdeed!

                                Re: Forest and Everton

                                Posted by Music Critic on 29/2/2024, 13:00:35, in reply to "Re: Forest and Everton"

                                Sorry, I meant that cheating PSR is NO worse than going into admin

                                  Re: Forest and Everton

                                  Posted by ELH on 29/2/2024, 13:11:02, in reply to "Re: Forest and Everton"

                                  I agree with you and don't get why there hasn't been much challenge to it. The points penalty for administration isn't the end of the matter either as there would be a transfer ban and depending on how the club exits admin there can be more points deductions. As we know.

                                    Re: Forest and Everton

                                    Posted by Music Critic on 29/2/2024, 15:23:00, in reply to "Re: Forest and Everton"

                                    Yep.

                                    I've said on here before that it all comes across as real finger-in-the-air stuff from the Prem. Farcical really

                        Re: Forest and Everton

                        Posted by Hatters on 29/2/2024, 9:33:31, in reply to "Re: Forest and Everton"

                        Although the football actually stops in May iirc I read somewhere the official ending of the premier league season is actually sometime near the end of June when the league share thingy's are issued to newly promoted clubs and I guess retrieved from the relegated.

                        Agree totally with your last paragraph.

                          Re: Forest and Everton

                          Posted by The Outsider on 29/2/2024, 9:39:04, in reply to "Re: Forest and Everton"

                          Final verdict by 24 May at the latest.

                            Re: Forest and Everton

                            Posted by MG on 29/2/2024, 10:48:56, in reply to "Re: Forest and Everton"

                            Lol, so much better then .

                            They really have made a complete pig's ear of this.

                              Re: Forest and Everton

                              Posted by Hatters on 29/2/2024, 10:42:28, in reply to "Re: Forest and Everton"

                              yeah I saw that further down after posting, (note to self, read whole thread first before posting)

                            Re: Forest and Everton

                            Posted by Madpig on 29/2/2024, 8:24:19, in reply to "Re: Forest and Everton"

                            Agree

                              Re: Forest and Everton

                              Posted by The Outsider on 29/2/2024, 8:57:19, in reply to "Re: Forest and Everton"

                              The report on the first Everton case basically says that a points deduction is the only appropriate penalty for such an offence.

                                Re: Forest and Everton

                                Posted by ELH on 29/2/2024, 9:20:58, in reply to "Re: Forest and Everton"

                                Yes and the Everton appeal has at least resolved some other issues that were unknown in the first hearing e.g. the size of the points deduction has to be made with consideration to other offences (probably means there is no chance of any breach going as high as 9 points), and the bar has been set very high for aggravating factors like presenting deliberately misleading information.

                                So I think it's a lot less likely that an appeal will change the outcome of the next two decisions.

                                  Re: Forest and Everton

                                  Posted by Toddingtonsteve on 29/2/2024, 9:06:55, in reply to "Re: Forest and Everton"

                                  That would be my reading of it, I’d say 6 points for Forest is pretty well nailed on. They might give Everton another 2 because it’s the third year of 3 coming in

                                    Re: Forest and Everton

                                    Posted by Sandgrounder on 29/2/2024, 11:43:37, in reply to "Re: Forest and Everton"

                                    I don’t think the double jeopardy argument applies. Rules are clear that losses are assessed over a rolling 3 year period, with each 3 year period considered separately. If they’ve exceeded losses over any 3 year period they should be punished for that breach of rules. To give them a discount on the points deduction because 2 of the 3 years were in the previous period makes no sense.

                                    And if Everton whinge that each 3 year period should be considered in a separate season - well if the case that has just concluded was heard last season, as it should have been, 6 points would have relegated them. So they should than their lucky stars it was delayed until this season, especially as they still have a fair chance of staying up even with 2 points deductions this season (because Burnley and Sheff Utd are so weak and Forest likely to get a deduction too).

                                      Re: Forest and Everton

                                      Posted by Realistic on 29/2/2024, 10:29:48, in reply to "Re: Forest and Everton"

                                      Why would they get less than 6 for a repeat offense?

                                        Re: Forest and Everton

                                        Posted by Toddingtonsteve on 29/2/2024, 11:35:06, in reply to "Re: Forest and Everton"

                                        My take on it would be that they have had one breach for 3 years which has been punished with 6 points. On the latest incident the first year drops out and another comes in, so there could be an argument that the club has already been punished for the previous years. As I say, this is my opinion, my mate is adamant it should be another 6 so we’ll see

                                Re: Forest and Everton

                                Posted by Madpig on 29/2/2024, 7:25:03, in reply to "Forest and Everton"

                                https://www.nottinghampost.com/sport/football/football-news/nottingham-forest-ffp-charge-hearing-9128658?int_source=amp_continue_reading&int_medium=amp&int_campaign=continue_reading_button#amp-readmore-target

                                  Re: Forest and Everton

                                  Posted by The Questioner 2 on 29/2/2024, 9:24:52, in reply to "Re: Forest and Everton"

                                  'Any appeals process must be concluded by May 24, five days after the final match day of the current campaign.'

                                  What could possibly go wrong with that...

                                    Re: Forest and Everton

                                    Posted by Neat Eric on 29/2/2024, 11:09:21, in reply to "Re: Forest and Everton"

                                    I’m sure I also read that any appeal has to be heard before the Premiership AGM in June,where relegated teams have to hand back their Prem certificates . Totally unfair for clubs deciding on new signings, who to release and contract extensions.

                                      Re: Forest and Everton

                                      Posted by Madpig on 29/2/2024, 10:07:46, in reply to "Re: Forest and Everton"

                                      TQ2...🤔🤔🤔😎😎😎

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