Luton Outlaws - The Avenue of Evil

Proud

Posted by Teacher on 10/1/2024, 22:37:19

To be a Lutonian.

Nothing wrong with Luton compared to hundreds of other towns.

Luton fans slagging off Luton are c#nts.

Re: Proud

Posted by Town Crier on 11/1/2024, 10:06:24, in reply to "Proud"

Where do you live pal?

Re: Proud

Posted by Question on 11/1/2024, 12:28:24, in reply to "Re: Proud"

And where do you live, Town Crier?

Re: Proud

Posted by MG on 11/1/2024, 9:23:21, in reply to "Proud"

Luton has never been exactly a postcard town

. It has suffered from the general malaise around the country including chronically underfunded councils and all the other hits our economy and society has taken.

We were also unfortunate that we had C&R dominating the town centre, a company with a stated strategy of dominating town centres pretty much to the exclusion of all else. Though they might just have done us a small, inadvertent favour by delaying Power Court!

But hell, it is set in some great countryside, it has one of the most vibrant and cosmopolitan communities in the UK and in Bury Park it has one of the most amazing High Streets in England. I live in the Meon Valley in a small town and our town centre isn't even as good as the Arndale.

We don't have a football team, it merged with another town's team and moved into their ground. Luton has a team in the Premier League with a new stadium on the way and 2020 guiding it. The football club is a massive asset and one of the many wonderful things about getting to the top flight was those celebrations with the Asian community getting so involved. If we can build on that with Power Court . . .

So, I don't see my town through rose tints, I see those same discarded mattresses, I see how the appalling inequality we've allowed into our society impacts it, I see how the station has been left to rot while other places get funding for upgrades. It is, in parts, a dump.

But it's our dump, and it does still have some spirit and community and of course LTFC! I feel proud of the place for what it manages to be; in the grip of greater adversity than many places around it, and it's far from lost just yet.

Re: Proud

Posted by Hagar The Horrible on 11/1/2024, 14:22:27, in reply to "Re: Proud"

Bury Park has an amazing high st ? It's a shit hole mate. Filth everywhere !!!

Re: Proud

Posted by MG on 11/1/2024, 15:58:44, in reply to "Re: Proud"

Well they say beauty in in the eye of the beholder . . .

Okay, fair enough, it's dirty, it looks rundown and out of date. Definitely.

But it's busy, it's vibrant, and it has a plethora of independent shops doing decent business. You'd be hard-pushed to find somewhere with that kind of positive activity in a lot of towns.

Re: Proud

Posted by RADSB on 11/1/2024, 11:04:04, in reply to "Re: Proud"

A friend wanted an arte deco railway poster - Come to Luton type with a drawing of the Corn Exchange (no Town Hall, ahem) or similar that were around in the 1930's. There isn't one - we are probably the biggest place without one.

As I said yesterday, the biggest problem is that Luton grew too big too quickly and the town has not been able to cope at any level from 1947 onwards. Too many people have come to the town to make money and have zero interest in much else outside their own bubble. People make the town, and there are too many money people and not enough people who care. There has been a sad lack of objections to stupid planning applications, complaining about rubbish, broken pavements, beggars, asb and so on, all of which drag the town down. If pressure does build up for action then there's a token effort emblazoned on social media, oh look at what we are doing. It's a sticking plaster approach which sums up the way the town has been run in the last 20 odd years.

There's a lack of self respect, respect for others and the town all of which perpetuates the crap town label. The brightest have moved away or won't come to live here. We lack leadership at every level and the council hasn't had a plan for jobs since Vauxhall shut - they helped build some offices after Vauxhall left to try to encourage businesses but that failed miserably. Those offices are now flats.

The club in the PL may have helped people identify with the town and encourage them to call it home rather than a place to sleep, eat and make money. PC will hopefully help also but it will be a few generations before the town is turned around.

Re: Proud

Posted by Ches Fordroad on 11/1/2024, 11:40:07, in reply to "Re: Proud"

The biggest issue is that councils of all hues over the past 50+ years assumed that Vauxhall would be here for ever as a major employer and so never made much effort to attract/retain employers from anything other than the vehicle manufacturing sector.

As a result, when Vauxhall pulled out, there was little or nothing else available to employ people. By that time, high tech industry with future potential had set up and become established elsewhere.

Re: Proud

Posted by MG on 11/1/2024, 11:20:39, in reply to "Re: Proud"

Yes, what you're describing is some of the adversity I spoke about and I didn't use the word "dump" lightly. The problems are huge but I also see things like the burgeoning park run scene (small thing relatively but meaningful), the carnival, and of course the football club which is a genuine beacon!

I just feel there's a level of social cohesion there which while much lower than you'd want in a town, it's better than the conditions might be expected to sustain.

Re: Proud

Posted by HH on 11/1/2024, 11:13:04, in reply to "Re: Proud"

PC will be great, but I don't see it kickstarting the town.

As you said, the town lacks the civic institutionally ability to really drive the regeneration needed.

We need investment in the social fabric in the town, so people have the skills and qualifications to make something of themselves, not necessarily more infrastructure. Gentrification won't help either with new homes, it just exacerbates the problems as those without, remain without.

How many people who work at Capability Green actually ever visit the town centre? That money isn't coming into the town. And the airport just seems to offer zero houred contract roles.

Re: Proud

Posted by Music Critic on 11/1/2024, 11:48:49, in reply to "Re: Proud"

Don't underestimate the power of a development like PC to act as a honey pot, though. Good business/attractions will attract good business.

I do agree that skills investment is needed but that requires companies coming in willing to invest in the town and its people. Which has happened elsewhere. There's little the council can do in terms of skills apart from selling the town as a place to build a base and invest. And there is loads to attract industry - an airport, good train links, buses aren't bad, the M1, proximity to London, a reasonably-sized pool of people to employ. Industry will need to work with local colleges to deliver stuff they need too, of course

I also think that we think Luton is some kind of special case when town centres up and down the country are in disarray. The almost complete reliance on retail to build town centres around - with no foresight on what might happen if physical retail starts to decline - has come home to roost. Town centres now need a mix of residential, leisure, education and offices to regenerate them. With some minor retail included too. Trouble is, places like capability green are built outside the town and that just drains people away from the centre. If that was built in the town centre (or if it was possible to do so) that would massively help. Maybe if the Arndale is demolished or partly demolished all sorts of other developments can be built to draw people back in to the town centre

Luton isn't lost and I think the council are trying. But I'd suggest they need to just try a little bit harder

Re: Proud

Posted by Town planner on 11/1/2024, 12:35:39, in reply to "Re: Proud"

I moved away many years ago but I'm back a fair bit for work/family. I usually stay in town and actually don’t mind it, but it’s not for everyone.

But afraid to say that Luton’s reputation is so far gone that it will never attract a more 'upmarket' clientele. There’s zero chance, never gonna happen.

I have family from Luton who have not been back in years despite living only a few miles away. A nephew of mine (born Luton but grew up just north of) has zero interest in ever going out in Luton.

He reckons Ampthill is much better night out, that’s where his crowd goes – wtf??

And if you’re looking to the Harpenden set, to them Luton is a different universe.

Unless there was some massive cleanup and clear out of the 'undesirables' the reputation won't change, and there's no will to do that.

Re: Proud

Posted by greenfield hatter on 11/1/2024, 14:04:32, in reply to "Re: Proud"

Agree totally with everything you have said. Not one Nightclub in Luton, The Brewery Tap is the only good pub in the centre, I would not go out in Luton if I was young it is terrible. Harpenden has loads of good pubs and places to eat and yes even Ampthill has better pubs than Luton town centre

Re: Proud

Posted by HH on 11/1/2024, 14:26:32, in reply to "Re: Proud"

It's mad how quickly that has happened. 20 odd years ago I think there were at least 6 nightclubs?

Liquid
Chicagos
Branningans
Space
Charlie Browns
The Edge

Whether any of them were any good is another thing.....

Chapel Street used to be have three bars at least, all long gone now.

Is After 8's still there? Asking for a friend....

Re: Proud

Posted by G on 11/1/2024, 14:33:07, in reply to "Re: Proud"

Same as most town centres.

Re: Proud

Posted by HH on 11/1/2024, 14:34:00, in reply to "Re: Proud"

True indeed.

Re: Proud

Posted by Flame on 11/1/2024, 14:09:11, in reply to "Re: Proud"

No nightclubs?

Re: Proud

Posted by greenfield hatter on 11/1/2024, 14:19:15, in reply to "Re: Proud"

Well straight ones

Re: Proud

Posted by HH on 11/1/2024, 11:55:33, in reply to "Re: Proud"

I just think planning in this country is entirely fucked. Always focused on profits etc and what the developer can make rather than how it actually improves the society of a town. I know that's hard to quantify, but we need to do a lot more of it. The other issue, planning seems to be around council's bidding for pots of money for what they can do here and there rather than following some joined up thinking masterplan.

The main thing with places like Luton, and Stoke, is how poor people's perceptions are. Focusing on arts etc, a bit like Luton has done with the cultural quarter, is a decent cheapish way of trying to improve a town.

It needs to go further than the council, IMO, needs to be a regional approach to planning with a clear strategy and approach. And the government needs to reintroduce programmes like SureStart etc.

Anyway, that's my morning rant over.

Re: Proud

Posted by Ches Fordroad on 11/1/2024, 13:51:15, in reply to "Re: Proud"

Perceptions can change when it's areas of London, but seemingly out in the provinces, once you're labelled, you're labelled

Re: Proud

Posted by Music Critic on 11/1/2024, 12:09:19, in reply to "Re: Proud"

Totally agree with the regional approach - there used to be development agencies whose job it was to attract business to an area, with a strategic eye on that. And then working with education to deliver required skills

The Govt, through ideological 'austerity', got rid of them in 2010/2011

Agree with the planning point. It needs a complete overhaul of the planning system. Especially brownfield development - why is that so difficult to get cleared FFS?

On perceptions, they can change quite quickly. It needs leadership from the council and maybe from just one developer/business to get the ball rolling. I wonder if PC will prove to be that 'one'

Re: Proud

Posted by MG on 11/1/2024, 11:56:40, in reply to "Re: Proud"

HH for PM!

Re: Proud

Posted by HH on 11/1/2024, 12:03:03, in reply to "Re: Proud"

Haha, nah, it would be a dictatorship. Off to the gulags with the dissenters.

Re: Proud

Posted by MG on 11/1/2024, 12:04:23, in reply to "Re: Proud"

Sounds fair

Re: Proud

Posted by Andy Cappuccino on 11/1/2024, 10:22:46, in reply to "Re: Proud"

Chronically wasteful councils more like

Re: Proud

Posted by HH on 11/1/2024, 10:34:09, in reply to "Re: Proud"

49% real term cuts to their budgets since 2010.

The implications of austerity are not the only cause but a massive part of the problems crap towns like Luton are facing.

Re: Proud

Posted by Oh dear on 11/1/2024, 10:38:33, in reply to "Re: Proud"

Yeah, Luton was a real life Eutopia before the tories got in power eh? Give it a rest ffs.

Re: Proud

Posted by crumpsall on 11/1/2024, 11:46:26, in reply to "Re: Proud"

Eutopia? That's a corker, unintentional or not. Thanks, I'm nicking that!

The country as a whole was more cohesive 13 years ago, in my opinion. Tories and Brexit haven't helped, but both voted in - so maybe we're getting what the majority asked for.

Re: Proud

Posted by Kingy on 11/1/2024, 12:26:06, in reply to "Re: Proud"

The point of Brexit was to have fewer ties with Europe,or at least that’s what people wanted
The electorate were betrayed by remainers in power doesn’t change how the majority felt

Re: Proud

Posted by Nearly a Genius on 11/1/2024, 14:56:04, in reply to "Re: Proud"

That is a very simplistic way of viewing the problems.

What the vast unthinking majority wanted was to have their cake (fewer ties with Europe) and eat it (have the same favourable import/export ties with Europe).

Re: Proud

Posted by RGDave on 11/1/2024, 12:51:45, in reply to "Re: Proud"

Brexit was about supposed to be about controlling our borders and increasing sovereignty. The current shower have f***ed it up so badly, it's actually quite startling. Sunak crawling up to Modi and inviting huge numbers of Indian students was their latest stunt. We now have more people in net numbers coming into the country than when we were in the EU. Which takes some doing. The blame lies with the current Conservative government.

Re: Proud

Posted by Kingy on 11/1/2024, 13:05:53, in reply to "Re: Proud"

Hard to disagree with that.

Re: Proud

Posted by Yer but on 11/1/2024, 13:01:01, in reply to "Re: Proud"

Only 200k odd.

It’s what the patriots wanted.

Re: Proud

Posted by crumpsall on 11/1/2024, 12:36:39, in reply to "Re: Proud"

Maybe the public were misinformed about what could be achieved. By the Brexit campaigners, not remainers.

It's an increasingly thin and unsupportable argument to blame the lack of progress on remainers. What is evident is there was actually no plan of action by the Brexit campaign should they succeed.

Not the first time Boris and co have been caught witth their pants down

Re: Proud

Posted by Kingy on 11/1/2024, 13:04:45, in reply to "Re: Proud"

It obviously meant many things to many people but I’d say the main ingredient was less influence from abroad in whatever ilk that was,be it less immigration or rules put upon us.
This has been hamstrung by an inept conservative government charged with implementing a coherent Brexit result.
As they are egotistical maniacs they want their political platform to be on a global scale and a brexit result sending the country inwards on the world stage would hamper their wish to be global sage’s
In short,they fckd Brexit for personal gain.

Re: Proud

Posted by crumpsall on 11/1/2024, 13:25:20, in reply to "Re: Proud"

So it's not down to 'remainers' then.

Re: Proud

Posted by Kingy on 11/1/2024, 13:40:33, in reply to "Re: Proud"

Not remainers in outward appearance but remainers in private and
With the power to implement the result.

Re: Proud

Posted by crumpsall on 11/1/2024, 14:07:01, in reply to "Re: Proud"

Oh good lord, that is really feeble and 'conspiratorial. I thought better of you.

There are certainly some of those, but it's a lame excuse for the complete lack of a coherent, credible exit and future focussed plan.

Re: Proud

Posted by Kingy on 11/1/2024, 14:28:12, in reply to "Re: Proud"

Not conspriratory at all it’s just a fact,as you even admit yourself(the exact numbers we will never know)
Notsaying lies were not told from Farage or whomever else either,does not take away from the fact the result was sabotaged,which is actually my only point whether it be a point I agree with or not,that is a worrying thing to see.
As ex forces I despise politicians and their lies fyi.

Re: Proud

Posted by Ches Fordroad on 11/1/2024, 13:54:08, in reply to "Re: Proud"

Yes, it was remainers that believed the lies from the likes of Forage, Johnson, Dacre, Murdoch .....

Re: Proud

Posted by HH on 11/1/2024, 10:45:21, in reply to "Re: Proud"

It's all Kier Starmer's fault.

Re: Proud

Posted by MG on 11/1/2024, 11:38:52, in reply to "Re: Proud"

He was DPP while some of this was going on you know.

Re: Proud

Posted by Ches Fordroad on 11/1/2024, 11:41:51, in reply to "Re: Proud"

Surely if that was the case then GB News and the Daily Mail would've picked up on it in attempt to make political capital out of it

Re: Proud

Posted by MG on 11/1/2024, 11:55:41, in reply to "Re: Proud"

It's just a matter of time

.

I think they'll want to try to pin The Yorkshire Ripper on him first though!

Re: Proud

Posted by TPDC on 11/1/2024, 10:45:01, in reply to "Re: Proud"

If you're going to go down that route (note no-one else has btw) then at least have the insight to realise that the tories have been in government for about two-thirds of the last 50 years!

Re: Proud

Posted by MG on 11/1/2024, 10:42:32, in reply to "Re: Proud"

Did you seriously, for even the briefest moment of time, think that's what he meant?

Re: Proud

Posted by Oh dear on 11/1/2024, 10:48:35, in reply to "Re: Proud"

After your complete load of guff post above, you're clearly drunk so your thoughts on the subject are irrelevant.

Re: Proud

Posted by crumpsall on 11/1/2024, 11:48:09, in reply to "Re: Proud"

Oh dear indeed. Do you realise how desperately childish your post seems?

Re: Proud

Posted by BT Hatter on 11/1/2024, 10:15:51, in reply to "Re: Proud"

Well said, Sir!

Re: Proud

Posted by J in C on 11/1/2024, 9:55:24, in reply to "Re: Proud"

Agree about Bury Park it's great

Re: Proud

Posted by Nearly a Genius on 11/1/2024, 9:44:09, in reply to "Re: Proud"

Bravo!!!!!!

Re: Proud

Posted by Madpig on 11/1/2024, 0:20:43, in reply to "Proud"

It's home,our town. If it's fucked up, it's our fault.We can fix it

Re: Proud

Posted by High Town Hatter on 11/1/2024, 12:22:09, in reply to "Re: Proud"

Is that the royal "we ?" Or can you fix it all by yourself from Hull ?

Re: Proud

Posted by Toddingtonsteve on 10/1/2024, 23:28:58, in reply to "Proud"

Proud of my “town” as well, moved to Toddington 9 years ago and it’s the best thing I ever did. I don’t find Luton town centre as threatening as some (though I don’t go there at night) but my wife now always goes north shopping, to Bletchley or MK, and it would take a lot change that.

Re: Proud

Posted by tophatter on 11/1/2024, 10:45:28, in reply to "Re: Proud"

This!

Cheers

tophatter

Re: Proud

Posted by pingu on 10/1/2024, 23:12:47, in reply to "Proud"

im proud to be a luton fan more than a lutonian nowadays. if the club wasnt there id never set foot back in the place.

Re: Proud

Posted by Town Crier on 11/1/2024, 10:13:13, in reply to "Re: Proud"

We will try to struggle on without you

Re: Proud

Posted by R27 on 11/1/2024, 10:05:06, in reply to "Re: Proud"

Exactly so Pingu.

Re: Proud

Posted by J in C on 11/1/2024, 7:04:05, in reply to "Re: Proud"

I'm in Town on Saturday, visit the old estate do my visits have a nap in my hotel a beer and a curry in the Red Chilli later. Won't even glance at the Town Center.

Kinda saddens me but it's all over the country decline

Re: Proud

Posted by On me head on 10/1/2024, 23:02:53, in reply to "Proud"

Nothing wrong with being a proud Lutonian, but if you think Luton isn't a dump, then you have your head firmly stuck in the sand

Re: Proud

Posted by Kingy on 10/1/2024, 22:42:52, in reply to "Proud"

The towns changed out of all proportion it’s unrecognisable from ten years ago what would you like people to do,pretend it isn’t an absolute dangerous dump now ?
The local council has been doing that,and still does, for years and look where that’s got us.
The town centre at night is full of zombies from all over the world as well as our home grown weirdos it’s frightening.

Re: Proud

Posted by Essex hatter on 11/1/2024, 9:58:11, in reply to "Re: Proud"

The only good Thing left about The Town is Luton Town football club

Re: Proud

Posted by Correct on 10/1/2024, 23:20:37, in reply to "Re: Proud"

But contrary to what you read on social media, there are plenty of equally poor/worse town centres in the country.

Re: Proud

Posted by Madpig on 11/1/2024, 0:22:57, in reply to "Re: Proud"

It's that bloody Mall. Before that happened we had a lovely town centre. It's an abomination

Re: Proud

Posted by Hugh Jaynus on 11/1/2024, 0:26:01, in reply to "Re: Proud"

Are those pink flamingoes still there.

Re: Proud

Posted by Excatly on 10/1/2024, 23:42:40, in reply to "Re: Proud"

This whole country is a dump.

Re: Proud

Posted by E1 on 11/1/2024, 2:10:28, in reply to "Re: Proud"

North Norfolk is a dump is it?
The Lake Distrtct?
The South Downs?

Re: Proud

Posted by Yep on 11/1/2024, 10:13:44, in reply to "Re: Proud"

Those three areas are beautiful, peaceful, because they have remained "British."

Re: Proud

Posted by Nearly a Genius on 11/1/2024, 15:00:58, in reply to "Re: Proud"

What do you mean, "remained British".
The rest of the country (that part of the UK known as Great Britain) is part of the British Isles.

Re: Proud

Posted by Yep on 11/1/2024, 15:16:23, in reply to "Re: Proud"

I'm fully aware of what constitutes the UK and the British Isles, I was just making the point that some parts of Britain are, thankfully, much more British than others.

I'm sure you understand that though. For example, the Lake district is much more British than Houghton Regis.

Comprendy ??

Re: Proud

Posted by Nearly a Genius on 11/1/2024, 15:18:21, in reply to "Re: Proud"

No, you'll have to be more specific about what constitutes "Britishness". But I'm guessing that you won't want to display your bigotry.

Re: Proud

Posted by Steady on 11/1/2024, 15:34:16, in reply to "Re: Proud"

A made up word.
Who cares ?
As long as close friends and family are ok, sod the rest

Re: Proud

Posted by Nearly a Genius on 11/1/2024, 15:52:55, in reply to "Re: Proud"

That's a bit of a selfish attitude, if you don't mind my saying.

It was "Yep" who brought up the idea that some places are more "British" than others.

Re: Proud

Posted by Yep on 11/1/2024, 17:30:37, in reply to "Re: Proud"

Correct, and I did so because my assertion is factually spot on.

Call me a bigot NaG, I couldn't care less, nonetheless maybe it's time for you and others to dig their heads out of the sand and face up to the reality of life in Britain today and sadly the dye has long been cast.

Why do you think Lutonians, in great numbers, have been leaving the town and it's immediate area for a more peaceful and stress free existence, for a better quality of life ?

Britain has lost its identity, and as much as you dislike that your refusal to accept it doesn't make it any less of a fact.

Re: Proud

Posted by Oh well on 11/1/2024, 21:35:01, in reply to "Re: Proud"

Best not to dry about it.

Rich kernts want cheap labour to make big profits.

Idiots vote for rich men to do this.

Tough shit springs to mind and I hope you enjoy Sunaks 900k he welcomed in last year.

Enjoy.

Re: Proud

Posted by MG on 11/1/2024, 18:39:50, in reply to "Re: Proud"

It's nothing like a fact.

It's your opinion.

Re: Proud

Posted by Yep on 11/1/2024, 19:57:05, in reply to "Re: Proud"

Another one eating sand.

Re: Proud

Posted by MG on 11/1/2024, 20:50:42, in reply to "Re: Proud"

Autocorrect?

Or does that actually make sense to you?

Re: Proud

Posted by Yep on 11/1/2024, 21:07:58, in reply to "Re: Proud"

To anyone with half a brain it makes perfect sense, assuming you've been following the thread.

Re: Proud

Posted by MG on 11/1/2024, 21:43:04, in reply to "Re: Proud"

Ah, that's the problem then, I've got both halves of the brain still. Hope you find your other half.

Re: Proud

Posted by Nearly a Genius on 11/1/2024, 19:26:23, in reply to "Re: Proud"

Quite.

Re: Proud

Posted by Steady on 11/1/2024, 17:48:01, in reply to "Re: Proud"

Spot on, mate 👍👏

Re: Proud

Posted by Madpig on 11/1/2024, 0:24:01, in reply to "Re: Proud"

Sorry to appear again so quickly, but I did 20 years in Bedford...no better

Re: Proud

Posted by Cheated on 11/1/2024, 10:37:53, in reply to "Re: Proud"

Everyone who says how wonderful Luton is, live somewhere else!!!

Re: Proud

Posted by MG on 11/1/2024, 10:43:33, in reply to "Re: Proud"

Not sure, anyone is saying that . . .

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